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View Full Version : Rules Q&A How would you resolve a shapeshift/polymorph vs antimagic field loop?



holywhippet
2018-10-05, 02:52 PM
Consider this scenario:

W
W E
W
W
WD
WWWWWWWW

W = wall
D = druid
E = enemy wizard

The druid shapeshifts into something large like a brown bear resulting in this:


W
W E
W
WDD
WDD
WWWWWWWW


The enemy wizard doesn't feel like getting their face bitten off so they cast antimagic field. The druid in bear form is within range of the field so they shift back into human form. But when that happens they are no longer inside of the field. Their shapeshift is no longer suppressed so they change back and are immediately within the field again etc.

Due to the wall the druid doesn't have anywhere else to shapeshift into. I suppose one alternative would be for the druid to shift back in a tile inside of the antimagic field. How else would this be resolved?

Tanarii
2018-10-05, 11:11 PM
Does an anti magic field even affect a wild shaped Druid? I've always assumed no.

Tiadoppler
2018-10-05, 11:30 PM
Ideas:

When the bear is forced back into druid form, the druid is not in his original location, but instead inside the anti-magic field. He stays in druid form until he can get out of the anti-magic field and into a space big enough for the bear.

The bear Squeezes up next to the wall, not touching the border of the anti-magic field.

The druid flickers back and forth between the two forms until the anti-magic field moves or ends, or the Wild Shape expires.

The bear-form tries to appear within the wall, taking damage similar to teleporting into a wall with Dimension Door.

The pressure wave caused by a humanoid suddenly becoming the size of a bear knocks the anti-magic spell caster back by 5', moving the anti-magic shell enough to give the bear room.

The creation of the bear is a targeted magic area that cannot extend into the anti-magic sphere. You end up with half of a bear, or a bear squished to an unusual shape, or the initial wild shape fails entirely and is unable to activate.

tieren
2018-10-06, 12:32 AM
Does an anti magic field even affect a wild shaped Druid? I've always assumed no.

I found a Crawford tweet, wild shape is a "magical effect" not a spell, so while it can't be dispelled, anti magic field will suppress it.

In the OP I would have the druid knocked into human form appear inside the field that caused that to happen. If he tried to step back and shift where there wasn't enough room I would probably just shunt him off to the right.

Galithar
2018-10-06, 01:09 AM
The same way I'd deal with the same druid trying to shift in a 5 ft wide hallway. He would be a bear, squeezing in the spaces outside the field with all the penalties that go with squeezing.

Probably not RAW, but it's what I'd do.

Edit: This is in the assumption that they know the field is there and can intentionally avoid it. If they don't know it's there they shift and the anti magic field immediately suppresses it. They are in the same space they started and don't have their action as it was used to shapeshift. Then they can return to bear form as soon as they have enough room (this can be done by squeezing immediately if they can figure out what stopped the initial transformation)

Myan
2018-10-06, 02:17 AM
Very interesting question*!
And I think this is one of those cases where classical reasoning and magical theory is thwarted by the counter intuitive nature of (un)reality.
Indeed, we need a deeper theory. Theories, in fact.
Behold: Quantum Magic Theory (QMT) and General Thaumaturgy (GT).

NOTE: What is coming is, perhaps, way too complicated and it is possible I went too far for it to be enjoyable, so here is a quick TL;DR:
When the anti-magic field is cast and after that at the start of every round of its caster, if the druid is still on the boundary of the field, end the current effect on the druid and cast on him a random transmutation spell (of a maximum level equal to the level of the anti-magic field).


So let’s see what our best theories have to say about this situation:
First, we have to understand what it means to be polymorphed : the druid morphic field (which is, in fact, a specific, localized excitation of the more universal Transmutation field) has been altered, modified by the shapeshifting. This alteration in itself is a quantum state that will decay over time in quantified manner (after x unit of time, the alteration will be no more). But the truly important question is: how does this state emerge ? It is a superposition of multiple, infinite, vibrational modes of the ever fluctuating transmutation field, each of those modes being a different modification of the druid shape. The superposition here means that certain modes cancel each other as they take opposite value and in the end, after infinite cancellation, the druid has only one shape.

Secondly, we need to understand what is really, an anti-magic field. The name field here being somewhat misleading because it has nothing to do with the quantum magical fields (Abjuration field, necromancy field, etc). In fact to explain the nature of the field we need General Thaumaturgy (GT). GT describes the Weave geometry (its threads, knot, ripples and tensions) depending on the quantity of raw magical energy on a region of space and also describe how raw magic move and behave depending on this geometry. Raw magic dictates the weave’s shape and the weave tells magic how to move.
Now, lets see what happens when we put raw magic in a region of space: the weave threads starts to make knot and to each knot is assigned some raw magic so that a spell can move the threads to use it. But if you make a lot of magic in very small region, then there is more and more knots and more and more raw magic is accumulating on these knots. The distance between the knots starts to shrink until there is no more space between each of them and they merge in one big knot that rip itself from the rest of the weave and attract all magic in his region, trapping it in the knot which has a size depending of the magical energy: the Blackshield area of effect. We’ve just created a Thaumic Hole. And just above the Thaumic Hole, between the ripped threads and the big knot, there is a surface without any link to the weave : a Magic Horizon. Any thread, knot or raw magic going beyond this Horizon is irremediably attracted to the knot added to it and trapped, until the Thaumic Hole becomes unstable and disolve immediately (one could be stable but you need a way to accumulate a lot of raw magic or to move a lot of threads). That is exactly what an anti-magic field is: a singularity in the fabric of the Weave.

So now we have the base of the two phenomenon, then we need to add them together and see what happens.

1) The transmutation field being in every point in space it reacts strangely to the Horizon: as the field extend beyond the Horizon it is cut as if it had a hole. And that causes some of his vibrational modes to shift or disappear. And so the superposition of states that is the altered morphic field of the druide has to change, changing the morphic field itself.
2) Worse, the shifted vibrational modes are not always the same, so this change to the morphic field is not specific: it randomly modifies itself over time.
3) One solving the complicated Onestone field equations and including the weave function’s collapse in it can determine that these change happen every 6 second. (yes, every one who knows his arcana recognize the time constant(T) and his incredible arbitrary valor that no one can explain)
4) Similarly, we can use the Eladrin spell diagram to determine the nature of the transmutation field fluctuation that will change the morphic field: it is a spell, of any energy level up to the anti magic field own energy level. The spell in question is quantum fluctuation, so its nature is randomly “chosen” each time.
5) Finally, if the druid moves in a way that puts him fully outside or inside the Thaumic Hole, then none of these quantum effect happen and the druid take his bear or natural form.

In conclusion: As long as the druid is partly inside and outside the anti-magic field, a random transmutation spell is cast at him, every 6 seconds, ending the effects of the preceding spell or effect, and this despite the fact that he is partly inside an anti-magic field.

There is much more to say about anti-magic fields/ Thaumic Hole and their effect or nature, like the famous Falconry Aura, the mysterious spell paradox and the Silent Image Principle; but this is already way too wordy and complex.