Nervous

[Xenothelm]

My team's warlock decided to switch to Hexblade, which will leave me as the only ranged PC in a group of a Bard(me), Hexblade, Monk, Paladin, Dual-wielding Ranger, and Cleric(playing off-tank). Is it worth it to risk AoE spells like Fear or Hypnotic Pattern in a team like this? It's already difficult to line up Faerie Fire without forcing them to make a saving throw and I feel like it's only gonna get more dangerous :(

It seems like the ideal situation is rolling a high initiative but that's never guaranteed even with the Alert feat...

[Corran]

If the paladin is devotion, then hypnotic pattern will be reliable enough IMO once the paladin hits level 7 (aura of devotion). And regardless of oath, fear will be more reliable when the paladin hits level 10 (aura of courage), at which point you will get tremendous value out of it, due to the added benefit of the many OA's because of your melee-heavy party. So, bottom line, I would pick hypnotic pattern if the paly is devotion and only once they got their 7th level aura, else I would skip this spell. And when the paly is level 10, I would pick fear (and if I had already hypnotic pattern, I would retrain it with fear, as I wouldn't want two concentration spells that both target wisdom saves and that both inflict conditions against which, resistance or immunity usually go hand in hand, or so I am guessing).

[iTreeby]

Don't forget your half proficiency to initiative from Jack of all trades! If you talk to your party you might be able to get them to start moving more tactically/using shoves to actually set up your AOE spells. At worst you take the inspiring leader feat you can lecture them about their poor tactics during short rests and sing them a song of rest to make them feel better about their poor decisions. AOE spells are still going to be great when you need them but with this many front liners you might want to focus on the other parts of being a bard and keep the CC in your back pocket for when you need it.

[Xenothelm]

At worst you take the inspiring leader feat you can lecture them about their poor tactics during short rests and sing them a song of rest to make them feel better about their poor decisions.

As a Glamour Bard I was already gonna take Inspiring Leader for the extra tempHP but what a brilliant way to RP it! Thanks!

[Aaedimus]

what a brilliant way to RP it! Thanks!

You've created a monster lol

[sophontteks]

As a Glamour Bard I was already gonna take Inspiring Leader for the extra tempHP but what a brilliant way to RP it! Thanks!
As a glamour bard you have literally nothing to worry about. You don't even need to win initiative. You just pop inspiration and cast away your best AOE.
As a glamour bard you should NOT take inspiring leader. The temp HP don't stack. It's a total waste.

Take another look at the glamour bard's inspiration ability:
"At 3rd level, as a bonus action, you can expend one use of your Bardic Inspiration to grant yourself a wondrous appearance. When you do so, choose a number of creatures you can see and that can see you within 60 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one). Each of them gains 5 temporary hit points. When a creature gains these temporary hit points, it can immediately use its reaction to move up to its speed, without provoking opportunity attacks.

The number of temporary hit points increases when you reach certain levels in this class, increasing to 8 at 5th level, 11 at 10th level, and 14 at 15th level"

As a bonus action you can reposition your entire team and give all of them temp HP. So you can cast hypnotic pattern whenever you want!
Glamour bards are made to cast AOEs like this. Just, please, don't waste a fear on inspiring leader. Your team will be drowning in temp HP already. Glamour bards, even more then normal bards need to max Charisma fast.

[Xenothelm]

As a glamour bard you have literally nothing to worry about. You don't even need to win initiative. You just pop inspiration and cast away your best AOE.
As a glamour bard you should NOT take inspiring leader. The temp HP don't stack. It's a total waste.

The thought process was to kind of "double down" on the tempHP theme and lessen the healing burden on my cleric. If the party soaks up some crazy AoE with the Inspiring Leader HP, I'd still have Mantle of Inspiration just in case. This way I have more freedom to throw out regular bardic inspiration mixed in? Good point about the movement though, I can literally have them disengage free of charge, then pop back in on CC'd opponents lol

[Kadesh]

As a glamour bard you have literally nothing to worry about. You don't even need to win initiative. You just pop inspiration and cast away your best AOE.
As a glamour bard you should NOT take inspiring leader. The temp HP don't stack. It's a total waste.

Take another look at the glamour bard's inspiration ability:
"At 3rd level, as a bonus action, you can expend one use of your Bardic Inspiration to grant yourself a wondrous appearance. When you do so, choose a number of creatures you can see and that can see you within 60 feet of you, up to a number equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum of one). Each of them gains 5 temporary hit points. When a creature gains these temporary hit points, it can immediately use its reaction to move up to its speed, without provoking opportunity attacks.

The number of temporary hit points increases when you reach certain levels in this class, increasing to 8 at 5th level, 11 at 10th level, and 14 at 15th level"

As a bonus action you can reposition your entire team and give all of them temp HP. So you can cast hypnotic pattern whenever you want!
Glamour bards are made to cast AOEs like this. Just, please, don't waste a fear on inspiring leader. Your team will be drowning in temp HP already.

Inspiring Leader for a Glamour Bard is basically +N Bardic Inspiration, though, where "N" is equal to the number of Short Rests you get, while allowing you to run a Summoner Build. It might not stack, but telling a Cha based character that Inspiring Leader is a "Total Waste" is ridiculous. Nobody is ever going to feel bad about having an additional potential 8 Hit Points per short rest at 4th level - the exception is that a character at full temp HP from Inspiring Leader wanting to benefit from the movement might have to drop down to 4 Temp HP.

It's not like when Armor of Agathys abusers require the Hit Points to be continually active at all times.

[Xenothelm]

I wouldn't want two concentration spells that both target wisdom saves and that both inflict conditions against which, resistance or immunity usually go hand in hand, or so I am guessing).

Yea there's a lot of talk on what to pick between HP and Fear. As you mentioned, OA's from Fear become quite golden with this particular team and it also disarms the affected targets. 30ft cone and 30ft cube are both pretty huge; I'm still not 100% sure which direction I'll go in but I've still got 2lvs to decide lol

[sophontteks]

Inspiring Leader for a Glamour Bard is basically +N Bardic Inspiration, though, where "N" is equal to the number of Short Rests you get, while allowing you to run a Summoner Build. It might not stack, but telling a Cha based character that Inspiring Leader is a "Total Waste" is ridiculous. Nobody is ever going to feel bad about having an additional potential 8 Hit Points per short rest at 4th level - the exception is that a character at full temp HP from Inspiring Leader wanting to benefit from the movement might have to drop down to 4 Temp HP.

It's not like when Armor of Agathys abusers require the Hit Points to be continually active at all times.
They get 5 uses per short rest at max CHA. (all the more reason they should not be taking feats.)
Each 1 use is equivalent to what the feat gives.
The feat is competing for Charisma ASI which also gives an extra use per short rest.

Why would they waste a feat when getting +2 charisma gives more then what the feat can offer?
Sounds like a waste to me!

Now about short rests. Bards have a spell called Tiny Hut. If short rests are really this hard to come by. But in most cases a bard can burn 2-3 inspiration even without it. Since this inspiration gives temp HP to the team, and in most cases only 1-2 people even get hit, most of the temp HP from these inspiration uses will be wasted. At best the bard is burning a feat to give 1 player extra HP. It just doesn't add up.

Betweeen Fear and HP. The range of fear is too short. Its very risky.

[Xenothelm]

They get 5 uses per short rest at max CHA. (all the more reason they should not be taking feats.)
Each 1 use is equivalent to what the feat gives.
The feat is competing for Charisma ASI which also gives an extra use per short rest.

In my particular situation my CHA is currently maxed (due to good starting rolls and DM shenanigans)


Since this inspiration gives temp HP to the team, and in most cases only 1-2 people even get hit, most of the temp HP from these inspiration uses will be wasted. At best the bard is burning a feat to give 1 player extra HP. It just doesn't add up.

I'd be more inclined to agree with this if I wasn't the only ranged on the team. With everyone else on the front line, I'm expecting AoE damage to be more of a factor and thus, getting more mileage out of the additional source of tempHP. The other option I guess is to just take the Resilient feat earlier... current plan was lv4-Warcaster, lv8-Inspiring Leader, lv12-Resilient(CON)


Betweeen Fear and HP. The range of fear is too short. Its very risky.

I guess I'd have to get a feel for this in practice but maybe Fear "would" be better on a valour/swords bard...

thanks for the response man!

[ATHATH]

Wait, if you receive THP from a source that provides less THP than however much THP you currently have, does your THP automatically get reduced to the amount of THP that the "lesser" source provides, or can you choose to keep your old THP total? Does Armor of Agathys still apply its effect if the THP that it provides get replaced?

[DeTess]

Wait, if you receive THP from a source that provides less THP than however much THP you currently have, does your THP automatically get reduced to the amount of THP that the "lesser" source provides, or can you choose to keep your old THP total? Does Armor of Agathys still apply its effect if the THP that it provides get replaced?

You pick the one to keep, and armor of agathys should no longer be active once the thp is used up or replaced.

[Kadesh]

Wait, if you receive THP from a source that provides less THP than however much THP you currently have, does your THP automatically get reduced to the amount of THP that the "lesser" source provides, or can you choose to keep your old THP total? Does Armor of Agathys still apply its effect if the THP that it provides get replaced?

No, where are you reading that?

"If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example, if a spell grants you 12 temporary hit points when you already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22."

Only creatures who receive the Temp Hp will be allowed to move, hence the rare occurrence when you will need to move while at full Temp HP.

Sophonteks is quite frankly talking nonsense - to the extent where I doubt they have played a Bard in a game. A bard's ability to use Inspiration is part of what makes them so good, and this gives them more freedom to hand out Inspiration, and not be forced to hoard them in case they get attacked.

The ability to move as a reaction is part of the abilities main strength. Inspiring Leader does not get in the way of that, and suggesting that they do not in any not cooperate is utter bull.

[Keravath]

Just to note that the Hexblade Warlock likely has the option to use effective ranged stacks as well since eldritch+agonizing blast costs one cantrip and one invocation. There is little or no reason for a warlock to leave that out unless for some obscure role play reason.

Also, as a bard and caster support, the AoEs are essential even if you can only hit a few targets. Not having these options could leave the party in trouble if they run into a horde of small creatures .. eg wolf pack etc

[sophontteks]

No, where are you reading that?

"If you have temporary hit points and receive more of them, you decide whether to keep the ones you have or to gain the new ones. For example, if a spell grants you 12 temporary hit points when you already have 10, you can have 12 or 10, not 22."

Only creatures who receive the Temp Hp will be allowed to move, hence the rare occurrence when you will need to move while at full Temp HP.

Sophonteks is quite frankly talking nonsense - to the extent where I doubt they have played a Bard in a game. A bard's ability to use Inspiration is part of what makes them so good, and this gives them more freedom to hand out Inspiration, and not be forced to hoard them in case they get attacked.

The ability to move as a reaction is part of the abilities main strength. Inspiring Leader does not get in the way of that, and suggesting that they do not in any not cooperate is utter bull.
You can't stack temp hp. Its not a hard concept to get around here.

There is no archtype in the game that can give as many temp hp as a glamour bard. So why waste a feat on more? There are tons of more important things one can get with that feat for survivability and concentration.

Yeah, inspiration is great. We get 5 per short rest. Temp hp go away on a long rest. You can give the whole team these temp hp, then short rest, and still be full on inspiration, which will inevitably be used for even more temp hp in a battle. They are drowning in temp hp.

Maybe if the feat was free, but opportunity cost is a thing. Feats are not cheap.

[Xenothelm]

Yeah, inspiration is great. We get 5 per short rest. Temp hp go away on a long rest. You can give the whole team these temp hp, then short rest, and still be full on inspiration, which will inevitably be used for even more temp hp in a battle. They are drowning in temp hp.

I didn’t consider that I get all the BI dice back on short rests too (starting lv5), and we’ll probabaly be more likely to take short rests with a Warlock on the team. That’s a good argument against Inspiring Leader.

Since my CHA is already maxed I don’t really see myself taking the ASI, even for CON/DEX as I’m only gonna get more slippery as I level. (Dimension door, cc, etc) So I’d probably just get resilient(CON) earlier in lieu of Inspirational Leader. After that idk...

[Xenothelm]

Also, as a bard and caster support, the AoEs are essential even if you can only hit a few targets. Not having these options could leave the party in trouble if they run into a horde of small creatures .. eg wolf pack etc

Might have to come with a codeword for my teammates to gtfo or delay their first turns lol

[Aaedimus]

If my Shephard Druid dies I'm SO taking Glamour Bard. I completely forgot abput this archetype, and team support/temp HP was part of my goal