OOTS #485 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Doran]

Hmm interesting view of Roy in the afterlife

[Murrough]

Grrreat! I was hoping we get something before sept 17!

Thanks giant, stay healthy now! :smallsmile:

[Gerli]

Yeah! Great! My day is Saved! :D

[EllysW]

Woo hoo! Welcome back, Giant. I can't believe I stumbled upon this so early. Made my morning.

Nice strip, too. I'm sure my children would agree: Hell is standing around getting lectured by your parents.

[kamikasei]

I had completely lost track of the fact that it was due today. The unvisited link on the left was a very pleasant surprise.

Welcome back, Rich.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

HUZZAH!!! At long last our OOTS Withdrawal is over!!!

[blademaster42]

So totally worth the wait. Welcome back Rich!

Hehheh, jokes at DBZ's expense...

[Gitman00]

Yes!!! OotS is back! And Eugene is a pompous jackass, as usual.

[Thurge Of Ages]

well i was the first one to post on this thread before i read it . . . oh well.

GREAT JOB!

i loved the Dragonball Z reference! i used to watch it all the time and would always think, "man these fight scenes take forever."

good comic. its why i keep coming back.

[TDG]

Feather Fall

Best retort ever! :D

[sednanalien]

Whoooo!!! Welcome back Rich!

So it seems that in D&D, eternal reward has its own irony...

[Vampire包子]

Roy's dad really is stealing all the good lines.

Oh, and the Dragonball Z references.... I almost broke my poor swivelling chair. There does need to be a spell that requires the seven magic spheres as material components... dear lord, I hope our DM doesn't make a campaign out of that.

We'd have to fight Vegeta halfway through. That would be lame.

[AtomicKitKat]

Heh. Feather Fall.

[LM TR]

Heh. Feather Fall.

hey I wanted to say exactly that

seems we will see more Julia now, which is cool

[LightWraith]

Huzzah! Rich is back!

Great comic, glad I checked this morning :smallbiggrin:

[Cythraul]

YYEEESSSS!!!! OotS is back! Yay! And with a fantastic one line put down too!
*Does happy dance*
Welcome back, Rich!

[Trixie]

Yeesssssssssss!

We' back in action!:smalltongue:

Poor Roy, though :smallbiggrin:

[Alfryd]

New comic is up.
Good stuff.


Feather Fall.
All too true.

[happyturtle]

It is SO good to have Roy (sort of) back!

I hope he reminds his dad at some point that he's at least gotten a lot closer to destroying Xykon than Eugene ever did.

[Quezovercoatl]

And just as my internet conection starts working. Wooooo!:smallbiggrin:

[Lhyviathan]

I'M HOME!:smallbiggrin:

Ah, Roy-Eugene niggle. Can't get enough of it.

[Alfryd]

I quite liked the vultures line, actually.

[SteveMB]

When you've got eternity with Eugene, who needs fire and brimstone?

[Trixie]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells? :smallbiggrin:

Or she was just saved to torment Roy tomorrow? :smallamused:

And, does he mean that Xykon can cast Tenth level spells?

3+7 = 10, no matter how many times we add that up :smallconfused:

[RTGoodman]

And now my week has had a good, proper start - a new OotS comic!

But now I wonder how this Blood Oath thing works - is it some sort of actual magical binding effect that could get screwed up if Roy is resurrected, or is it just one of those honor things?

[Manga Shoggoth]

I too loved the Dragonball references.

However, it seems a little harsh that Roy cannot go on to his afterlife especially since it was his father who had the tatoo of vengence, not him (spoilered for those who haven't read SOD).

Edit: And yes, it is wonderful to have OOTS back. Let's hope that Rich is back in health.

Edit2: Oh yes. Please let Miko join the discussion....

[Constantinople]

If anyone cares, the name of the comic ("Hey you, Get off my cloud.") refers to the chorus of the song "Get off my cloud" by Mick Jagger.

[themightybiggun]

whew, good to see you back in action Rich.

"Feather Fall..."
"...Damn It!"

Classic.

[Varg]

Some of the best dialogue I've seen in OOTS for a long, long time...and a huge welcome back to you, Giant. :smallsmile:

[Bendal]

"Feather Fall"

Lol; at least that shut up Roy for a few seconds.

[dogmac]

Oh man, Roy is right. He IS in hell.

But it does answer the Julia question.

Featherfall. he.

Welcome back Rich. Hope you are feeling much better.

[Zynex]

HUZZAH! Hail the triumphant return of the Order of the Stick and the insurgent reappearance of the once deceased Roy Greenhilt and his underwhelmed father.

Nice comic. Ouch on the snappy comeback from the old man in the end. :smallbiggrin:

[battleburn]

So many great lines to choose from...

Good to have you back Rich.

But, what is keeping Roy from finding a good, dead fighter and train with him. There should be plenty to choose from and I don't think they would want to stop training after they died. Unless all good fighters gain 40 pounds in heaven because they can't train. What kind of heaven would that be.

-Battleburn

[Vargtass]

Very nice dialogue here. I agree with Alfryd on the vultures line. I particularly liked also how Eugene did not understand the half-time reference, and that Roy immediately figured out why. And, of course, the Feather Fall retort was brilliant.

To Trixie: Miko, on the other hand, will have entered whatever afterlife realm she's entitled to, so no meeting up with her yet! And a third level wizard can cast second level spells, so Xykon indeed has 9-2=7 spell levels on her.

[Max_Sinister]

Three big HUZZAHS for the Giant!

[Prince_Rohan]

"With great power comes great blame."

:: sigh :: Great line, and all too true.

Glad to have OOTS back. Thanks Rich!


Answer to my last post: 697

[warmachine]

This shows you that Good does not mean enlightened. Criticising is all well and good but an alternative course of action must be proposed. Otherwise it's just destructive criticism. No wonder Roy hates his father.

[Khosan]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells? :smallbiggrin:

Or she was just saved to torment Roy tomorrow? :smallamused:

And, does he mean that Xykon can cast Tenth level spells?

3+7 = 10, no matter how many times we add that up :smallconfused:

Julia is a level 3 Wizard, and thus only has access to level 2 spells.

2+7=9

And I giggled at the Dragonball Z reference.

[battleburn]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells? :smallbiggrin:

Or she was just saved to torment Roy tomorrow? :smallamused:

And, does he mean that Xykon can cast Tenth level spells?

3+7 = 10, no matter how many times we add that up :smallconfused:

I'm not playing D&D so someone else can give a better answer, but...
3rd level wizard cannot cast spells of the 3rd spell level. Those things are seperate. Isn't it one spell level for every four levels or something?

Edit: Beaten to the answer by two persons...

[Pyro]

Welcome back Rich!

Fun comic. Nice Dragon Ball Z references. Its been so long since I watched that show.

[Finn Solomon]

I love Roy, it's good to see him back. Some killer lines from Eugene too.

[Sequinox]

Im not sure how to quote, so I'll reply to the person who said 3+7=10 and didn't get it, it was supposed to show how ridiculously little Roy knew about magic. I thought it was funny...

[GKBeetle]

Order Of The Stick is back! It's a great day to be alive! :smallbiggrin:

[pepazdepa]

Definitely worth waiting to say the least :smallsmile:

And yeah - Feather Fall FTW!

P.S. With all that afterlife blunder, there could be ressurected even someone else, by mistake, like back then Durkon was first healing and the God had that answering machine...damn funny!

[Felixaar]

Nice Return, Rich.

[Tar Palantir]

I will personally start a gold piece fund to buy Roy a Ring of Feather Falling upon his resurrection :smallbiggrin:

[Kaerou]

hahahahhaa, that was so awesome Rich!

It was so worth the wait. The dragonball Z and feather fall panels were gold.

And welcome back!

[Lira]

Yay! It's back! :D Good comic, this just made my day.

The art in the first panel is beautiful IMO. :)

[SPoD]

Im not sure how to quote, so I'll reply to the person who said 3+7=10 and didn't get it, it was supposed to show how ridiculously little Roy knew about magic. I thought it was funny...

Umm, no. This has already been answered like 5 times in this thread. 3rd level wizards can only cast 2nd level spells in D&D. They gain a new spell level at every odd-numbered wizard class level except 19.

Roy was 100% accurate in his assessment. It wasn't a joke at all.

[Fascisticide]

It's back! Praise the Giant!

[Alfryd]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells?
Heck, even a neutral plane might be relatively relaxing by Miko's standards.
I am a little curious as to how the Greenhilts bumped into eachother, though.

[Seerow]

Once again a 3rd level Wizard is proven superior to a 15th level Fighter.

[Hazelnut]

It's lovely to see new OOTS strips.

I hope you had a good break from it Rich.

[Ronald_saveloy]

I like the Dragonball Z reference. That leaves only one question open:

Will we see a afterlife training montage?

[Deuce]

At last, our long international nightmare is over. Well, at least I'll stop my twitching now that I've had my fix. :smallbiggrin:

Loved the banter. I'm a little surprised that Eugene has such little faith in Roy getting Raised, I thought he had some experience with that himself.

[Green Bean]

The two reigning OotS sarcasm champions square off from beyond the grave. Worth the wait!

[Estelindis]

Wonderful opener for the new "season" of OotS! Loved the DBZ references - plus the final punchline was *awesome*. "Feather Fall" - oooh, burned by the geezer. :smallbiggrin:

[delboy]

lmao that was fantastic got to love the mocking of DBZ and the "feather fall" well worth the wait made my day =)

[kierthos]

Meh, Julia could have cast Feather Fall, but it's not like she would have jumped up on the dragon's neck and attacked Xykon. And none of her spells would have been able to get past Xykon's SR.

Oh! Here's a question... when 4th edition comes out, are all the characters going to convert to it?

[lovelyluthien]

I am a little curious as to how the Greenhilts bumped into eachother, though.

Why not? Being welcomed by your loved ones (heh) in whatever afterlife you go is quite a common idea, isn't it?

[Fuzzy_Juan]

:smallbiggrin: Feather fall! now that was a great one...

Glad to see the OotS in action again...can't wait for more.

[shylocxs]

Yeah! My addiction is back!

Hope you're vacation was good, and that you're feeling better!

And nice way to return to us from your hiatus!

[lord_khaine]

must say i found it pretty amazing that Roy is apperently also bound by the blood oath?

[eof]

Once again a 3rd level Wizard is proven superior to a 15th level Fighter.
Actually, this is why I think Ring of Feather Falling is one of the most useful items in D&D. For a mere 2,200 GP, falling damage is a thing of the past (barring Dispels and anti-magic, obviously). If only it didn't take up a ring finger slot...

[Bayar]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells? :smallbiggrin:

Or she was just saved to torment Roy tomorrow? :smallamused:

And, does he mean that Xykon can cast Tenth level spells?

3+7 = 10, no matter how many times we add that up :smallconfused:

it does add up since it starts from 0.... 0 is first lvl, so 3+7=lvl 9 spells


oh, and welcome back Rich, nice one !

[eof]

must say i found it pretty amazing that Roy is apperently also bound by the blood oath?
See Start of Darkness for details.

[WuanAnselm]

Holy moley that was FAST

Glad to have you back giant^^

[Blaznak]

Wheeee! More OOTS!

I liked it. The banter between Roy and his Dad seemed spot on. The snappy retorts from both guys was good, but as expected, his Dad always had a slightly better answer...

Well,
Later!

[skinkatlarge]

<Long, contented sigh...>

I still think Eugene is a huge jerk, and if I were Roy I'd seriously consider changing my alignment when I'm resurrected to NG, just to make sure I wasn't damned to an eternity with the guy... but I've gotta admit he got all the best lines here.

"Oh! That's right! Vultures!"

[Issachar]

Oh! Here's a question... when 4th edition comes out, are all the characters going to convert to it?

I'd love to see the Order get in a huge debate with each other over the merits of moving on to 4e versus sticking with 3.5e, parallelling the "edition wars" among D&D gamers.

[SDTroll]

Am I the only one who wants Roy to point out that Julia, or Dear old Dad for that matter, probably couldn't survive the meteor swarm with their measly D4 HD, making Feather Fall pointless?

[ShiningTed]

Weeeeeeeee, we're back in the game!

Damn good comic - several genuine yuks. :smallsmile:

[smellie_hippie]

Oh... oh my. Now that right there? That was funny! :smallbiggrin:

[EntilZha]

"I'll take the hot pokers, just don't make me talk to my father!"

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[Seerow]

Actually, this is why I think Ring of Feather Falling is one of the most useful items in D&D. For a mere 2,200 GP, falling damage is a thing of the past (barring Dispels and anti-magic, obviously). If only it didn't take up a ring finger slot...

Too bad there's no magic shops in the OotS world, or Roy might have bought one.

[SPoD]

Am I the only one who wants Roy to point out that Julia, or Dear old Dad for that matter, probably couldn't survive the meteor swarm with their measly D4 HD, making Feather Fall pointless?

That's not really the point he was making. He was pointing out that Julia has, at age 16, mastered a skill that would have saved Roy's life. As in, if Roy had applied himself even a LITTLE to the career his dad wanted for him, he would still be alive. One level of wizard would have done the trick.

That's why Roy doesn't respond, because he knows his father is right about even a 1st-level spell making the difference.



Also, the number of people inventing new ways to explain why a Xykon has 7 spell levels on Julia is making Baby Gygax cry.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells? :smallbiggrin:

Or she was just saved to torment Roy tomorrow? :smallamused:

And, does he mean that Xykon can cast Tenth level spells?

3+7 = 10, no matter how many times we add that up :smallconfused:

Um... No. At third Level, Julia can only cast 1st and 2nd level spells.

Never mind, it's been answered a half-dozen or more times before me. That's what I get for not reading through the entire thread first.

Oh, and for someone above here... "0" level Wizards/Sorcerors can only cast "0" Level spells, better known as Cantrips.

[EntilZha]

Am I the only one who wants Roy to point out that Julia, or Dear old Dad for that matter, probably couldn't survive the meteor swarm with their measly D4 HD, making Feather Fall pointless?

It would be certainly pointless for Julia. As a 3rd level wizard, she'd only get 180 feet of feather falling, leaving 120 feet for her to plummet to the ground at full speed. And that's IF Xykon rolled all 1's on his damage roll for the Meteor Swarm.

[teratorn]

Nice. Sadly, everytime they talked about halves I thought about Miko. :smallfrown:

By the way, it's just me or has The Giant adapted an old sheep joke for the name of this strip?

[SPoD]

By the way, it's just me or has The Giant adapted an old sheep joke for the name of this strip?

It's just you. The title is a direct lyric from a Rolling Stones song.

[Fingolfin]

Ahhhhh, what a tremendous comeback for the Giant! :smallbiggrin: Loved this strip, especially as I am dragonballz fan, the comment there was sooo true. :) And the final blow, that was very imaginative.

Well done!

[EntilZha]

Nice. Sadly, everytime they talked about halves I thought about Miko. :smallfrown:

By the way, it's just me or has The Giant adapted an old sheep joke for the name of this strip?

The title of the comic is the title of a Rolling Stones song. I know the joke you're probably thinking of. It goes:

What's the difference between Mick Jagger and a Scotsman?
Mick Jagger says, "Hey, you, get off of my cloud" and the Scotsman says, "Hey, McCloud, get off of my ewe."

[Seerow]

It would be certainly pointless for Julia. As a 3rd level wizard, she'd only get 180 feet of feather falling, leaving 120 feet for her to plummet to the ground at full speed. And that's IF Xykon rolled all 1's on his damage roll for the Meteor Swarm.


To be fair, even rolling straight 1s, Im going to go out on a limb and assume Xykon has CL boosters to get him to at least CL20, if he's not at level 20 already. That's 24d6 damage.

Straight 1s is 24 damage. Against 4+2d4+3xcon HP. Julia might have say 12 con, giving her an average of 11.5 hp at level 3.

Straight 1s and Xykon is still obliterating her.

[Trixie]

Meh. The nymber of rules lawyers [and number of different, yet good explanations of 7] runs me shame :smallyuk:

Anyway, two more nitpicks: AC is one of the oldest bastions of good? The good industry must be pretty new, then :smalltongue:

Also: weren't R & E different alignments so how they ended on one plane?
And you're right: Miko's either went to mechanus or ninth layer of hell :smallamused:

Plus: third level wizard neither has hp too survive MS', nor feather fall of enough caliber to last 300 feet. And Roy is supposed to be the groups' rules lawyer :smallyuk:

[Killer Munchkin]

Thank you for another great OOTS.

The first silver lining of the day after hearing of the passing on of Robert Jordan.

[Lairek]

dear gods.... i laughed out loud for minutes after reading "feather fall"

It´s good to have you back oh mighty Giant. Hope your vacation from the site was a good one.

[Elfanatic]

* dances with with a huge :biggrin: on his face *

[fireinthedust]

And, does he mean that Xykon can cast Tenth level spells?

3+7 = 10, no matter how many times we add that up :smallconfused:

Ah, my pixie friend, I welcome you and solve your counting dilemma:

3rd level wizards cast 2nd level spells max, not 3rd. spell levels are different than character levels. This screws folks up ((which is why I prefer Mutants and Masterminds 2nd ed. for d20 games and convert the various characters. It's the same system, but the numbers are easier to track like you just did, and the options are more customizable))

so: 2+7=9. That hints Xykon is 18th level plus.

although this could be Roy's over-exaggeration, as I'm nto aware of exact levels for any of the PCs (7-9 is the ballpark, right?) let alone Xykon. I thought 15-16, but as popularity raises character level... ;)

anyway, even if he could use 10th level spells he probably wouldn't have to. It's not like this IS dbz, where power level depends on how loud you yell and how slow your panel turnover is.

[Thanatos 51-50]

Roy is a higher level then the rest of The Order?

Also: Feather Fall and DBZ jokes!
Awesomesauce.

[† Dran †]

Awesome script Giant and welcome back! hope alls well and keep up the good work. One of your best. :smallbiggrin:

[Seerow]

Ah, my pixie friend, I welcome you and solve your counting dilemma:

3rd level wizards cast 2nd level spells max, not 3rd. spell levels are different than character levels. This screws folks up ((which is why I prefer Mutants and Masterminds 2nd ed. for d20 games and convert the various characters. It's the same system, but the numbers are easier to track like you just did, and the options are more customizable))

so: 2+7=9. That hints Xykon is 18th level plus.

although this could be Roy's over-exaggeration, as I'm nto aware of exact levels for any of the PCs (7-9 is the ballpark, right?) let alone Xykon. I thought 15-16, but as popularity raises character level... ;)

anyway, even if he could use 10th level spells he probably wouldn't have to. It's not like this IS dbz, where power level depends on how loud you yell and how slow your panel turnover is.

The order is somewhere in the level 13-15 range last I checked. Making Xykon as an 18+ level spellcaster a valid opponent for them.

[knownaspirate]

im glad the comic is back. now i have something to obsess over again.
(and make more friends again!)
feather fall is a nifty thing to have.
very nicely done.
*hugz monitor*

[Alfryd]

Why not? Being welcomed by your loved ones (heh) in whatever afterlife you go is quite a common idea, isn't it?
Yeah, but, what's the procedure here? Do you leave your name and number at the desk and ask them to ring back once your progeny pop their clogs? Or did Eugene just cast some divination spell to zero in on Roy's planar position? Or has he just been tracking his every move obsessively from afar, for months, and thus knew exactly where to find the dearly departed's disembodied spirit once he crossed over? Because, y'know... the last option's kinda creepy.

I mean, presumably the outer planes are pretty crowded, numbers-wise, given that the OotSworld has been up and running for more than a few centuries. You couldn't really just look someone up in the phonebook. Or can you?
I dunno. It's all quite baffling.

[Burrito]

Personally, I would like to see Roy strangle his dad, just so at least Roy got get some satisfaction of having the last word. Even if derogatory sarcasm is what drives Roy to excel.

[Akaziel]

Woot! New OOTS! DBZ Jokes! Feather Fall! Awesometastic!

[Haruki-kun]

HAHAHAHA, those DBZ references were so awesome...... and true :smalltongue:

Welcome Back!

[Gitman00]

Ah, my pixie friend, I welcome you and solve your counting dilemma:

3rd level wizards cast 2nd level spells max, not 3rd. spell levels are different than character levels. This screws folks up ((which is why I prefer Mutants and Masterminds 2nd ed. for d20 games and convert the various characters. It's the same system, but the numbers are easier to track like you just did, and the options are more customizable))

so: 2+7=9. That hints Xykon is 18th level plus.

although this could be Roy's over-exaggeration, as I'm nto aware of exact levels for any of the PCs (7-9 is the ballpark, right?) let alone Xykon. I thought 15-16, but as popularity raises character level... ;)

anyway, even if he could use 10th level spells he probably wouldn't have to. It's not like this IS dbz, where power level depends on how loud you yell and how slow your panel turnover is.

The PCs are assumed to be around 13th-14th level thus far, and Xykon is 20th-level, minimum. Check out the Class and Level Geekery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912) thread for the rationale.

[malakim2099]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells? :smallbiggrin:

Or she was just saved to torment Roy tomorrow? :smallamused:


If she is... well, Roy is definitely going to be wishing he was in the Nine Hells instead. :smallbiggrin:

[explanetpluto]

What Eugene missed is that Julia would have been killed by the meteor swarm, she wouldn't have had a chance to cast feather fall.

[heroe_de_leyenda]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells? :smallbiggrin:

Or she was just saved to torment Roy tomorrow? :smallamused:

And, does he mean that Xykon can cast Tenth level spells?

3+7 = 10, no matter how many times we add that up :smallconfused:

This was probably answered earlier, but I haven't gone through the three pages:

Julia is level 3! So she can cast 2nd level spells. Xycon can cast 9th level spells (Meteor Swarm, for example) 2+7=9, so he is at least an 18th level sorceror. With the +2 LA, he is at least CR 20. But no 10th level spells, just 9th (from what we already know)

[carl corey]

What Eugene missed is that Julia would have been killed by the meteor swarm, she wouldn't have had a chance to cast feather fall.

It's probably not only a reference to Julia casting Feather Fall, but also to Roy *not* being able to cast what would be an easy spell that would have saved his life. From the way it shut Roy up for a second I think the answer reached its target.

[Jimorian]

By the way, it's just me or has The Giant adapted an old sheep joke for the name of this strip?

As mentioned, it comes from the song. However, in the Joke Thread elsewhere, I did tell that joke, so I certainly did a double take when I saw the strip title. :smallsmile:

(The joke asks what the difference is between Mick Jagger and a Scotsman. Mick Jagger says, "Hey, you, get off of my cloud." A Scotsman says, "Hey, McLeod, get offa my ewe!")

[Drascin]

And each update keeps making me hate old man Greenhilt more, even though I didn't think it would be possible. Someone please remember the old geezer that his much maligned son did, unlike him, manage to actually do some damage to Xykon? I mean, Eugene didn't even find him, and now here he is, after repeated manipulation and attempts at emotional and psychological blackmailing, thinking himself with the right to diss his hero (because that's what he is, every way you look at it) of a son.

To be honest, I'd have simply left with a "Screw you, dad. Think of what you did and then come back to me if you wish" after about the third/fourth panel, more or less. But then, Roy's got a lot more patience than I do, apparently. That's probably why he's lawful good while I'm chaotic good :smalltongue:

[SPoD]

Anyway, two more nitpicks: AC is one of the oldest bastions of good? The good industry must be pretty new, then :smalltongue:

Azure City may have existed for thousands of years. Only the Sapphire Guard are new, but the crayon pages show that the city existed before then.


Plus: third level wizard neither has hp too survive MS', nor feather fall of enough caliber to last 300 feet. And Roy is supposed to be the groups' rules lawyer :smallyuk:

I'm convinced no one actually reads anyone else's posts in the main discussion thread because they are too busy rushing to post their trivial nitpick that probably isn't even valid.

In this case, the point Eugene is making is NOT that Julia could have survived against Xykon, but that ROY could have survived against Xykon if he had taken the time to learn a skill that even a 16-year-old girl has mastered.

[malakim2099]

Oh! Here's a question... when 4th edition comes out, are all the characters going to convert to it?

Not sure if it merits spoilering, but what the heck...

Considering that fighters are supposed to be much more like Warblades/Book of Nine Swords craziness in 4th ed... that might be how Roy finally can take on Xykon. Since a "raw fighter" has very little chance. Of course, Roy's primary failure in this case was not working with the Order of the Stick to take on Xykon.

Not that Roy really knew how powerful Xykon was from last time, but if he had somehow worked with the rest of the group, it would have been a LOT tougher match. Which I'm sure will get pointed out to him at some future point, hopefully in a less sarcastic manner than Eugene so it can properly sink in. :smallwink:

[Mugen Nightgale]

so happy to have oost back =~


feather fall heh.

[pswbr]

Very good Rich. Amazing return.

I wish you the best health and much work :smallwink:

[Solara]

Hurray, I can get my fix again! I knew it would be up today but I hardly dared hope it would be posted so early - I think all neighbors must have heard my squeal of glee. Rich, I hope you enjoyed your well-deserved vacation, but you have no idea how happy I am that it's over now. :smalltongue:

As for the strip, I've been waiting for those two to have a scene together ever since he fell off the dragon. It's been as hilarious as all my expectations but seriously I feel bad for poor Roy, standing around getting insulted by your dad has to one of the suckiest afterlives ever. Doesn't whatever plane they're on make allowances for people who can't fly but would like to get off of this boring cloud please, or at least moved to one that doesn't contain a disapproving snarky jerk of a father?

[Nodles]

I dont post much here, but: good strip, and thx for the animu reference =p that was unexpected, therefore funny

[Rhuna_Coppermane]

And each update keeps making me hate old man Greenhilt more, even though I didn't think it would be possible. Someone please remember the old geezer that his much maligned son did, unlike him, manage to actually do some damage to Xykon? I mean, Eugene didn't even find him, and now here he is, after repeated manipulation and attempts at emotional and psychological blackmailing, thinking himself with the right to diss his hero (because that's what he is, every way you look at it) of a son.

To be honest, I'd have simply left with a "Screw you, dad. Think of what you did and then come back to me if you wish" after about the third/fourth panel, more or less. But then, Roy's got a lot more patience than I do, apparently. That's probably why he's lawful good while I'm chaotic good :smalltongue:

Right on! I just want to give the old bastard a good swift kick in his aetherial tuchis.

I wonder if those of us who want to see Eugene killed some more are the ones who had particularly sarcastic parents themselves?

Neutral good here, I think. Some days, just plain neutral.

[Kesnit]

Or has he just been tracking his every move obsessively from afar, for months, and thus knew exactly where to find the dearly departed's disembodied spirit once he crossed over? Because, y'know... the last option's kinda creepy.

But also probably true. Eugene wants to see Xykon killed, so of course he is going to watch his son.

As many others have said, I love "Feather Fall."

[Movoza]

And what could you do, standing on a cloud all day...

"the fight took long enough"
:smallbiggrin:

[Nakun]

Yay! the best webcomic better is back! I'm skipping out on school work just to read becauise it's that awesome! Two amazing things:

"Ooooo, yes! And while your friends collect the seven magic spheres to wish you back to life, you can train with the secret martial arts master who lives here in the afterlife!" "... Really?" "No, not really, you moron! Does this look like 'Dragonball Z' to you?!?"

and

"Feather Fall."

Roy's dad is my new favorite character.

[SteveMB]

I'm not playing D&D so someone else can give a better answer, but...
3rd level wizard cannot cast spells of the 3rd spell level. Those things are seperate.

Somebody should have bought those guys a thesaurus. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0012.html)

[Demonix]

YAY! Great start to the next cycle!

-cheers wildly-

[Elurindel]

Ooooh, snap! Roy really got told there. A brilliant return, Giant, and we're all anxious to see what happens.:smallbiggrin:

[MReav]

What Eugene missed is that Julia would have been killed by the meteor swarm, she wouldn't have had a chance to cast feather fall.

I feel the need to point out that Julia would have been killed by the repeated Finger of Death's long before she would have been Meteor Swarmed.

[heroe_de_leyenda]

And each update keeps making me hate old man Greenhilt more, even though I didn't think it would be possible. Someone please remember the old geezer that his much maligned son did, unlike him, manage to actually do some damage to Xykon? I mean, Eugene didn't even find him, and now here he is, after repeated manipulation and attempts at emotional and psychological blackmailing, thinking himself with the right to diss his hero (because that's what he is, every way you look at it) of a son.

To be honest, I'd have simply left with a "Screw you, dad. Think of what you did and then come back to me if you wish" after about the third/fourth panel, more or less. But then, Roy's got a lot more patience than I do, apparently. That's probably why he's lawful good while I'm chaotic good :smalltongue:

-Well... Liches have DR 15/Magic AND bludgeoning... asuming Roy does
2d6(average 7)+7(str 20)+5 (+5 weapon)+2(weapon specialization)... dealing 21 damage average, -15 for not overcming the DR, we have him dealing an average of 6 hp per slash...
-Xykon has around 117 HP (asuming he is a 18 level Lich sorcerer = 18d12, average 6.5). Roy would've have to conect around 20 hits to take Xykon down, and I don't think he was close.

[Quirinus_Obsidian]

Awesome Comic Rich!! Fantastic work!! Welcome back =)

[Mike_Lemmer]

Another reason why every adventurer should always have a spare Ring of Feather Fall handy.

"In 6 seconds, you can swap rings and save yourself from an eternity of torment by spellcasters."

[Sengoku]

Yay updated!!

Hope no one will complain now :smallwink:

[Actana]

Go OOTS! Go Roy! Go unneeded sarcasm!

I'm almost nearly forgot the whole OOTS comic today. Normally I would check the whole site every day for new comics, but today I forgot about it. :smallannoyed:

[Kesnit]

-Well... Liches have DR 15/Magic AND bludgeoning... asuming Roy does
2d6(average 7)+7(str 20)+5 (+5 weapon)+2(weapon specialization)... dealing 21 damage average, -15 for not overcming the DR, we have him dealing an average of 6 hp per slash...
-Xykon has around 117 HP (asuming he is a 18 level Lich sorcerer = 18d12, average 6.5). Roy would've have to conect around 20 hits to take Xykon down, and I don't think he was close.

The +5 of Roy's weapon is magic, which overcomes the DR. He would do 11 HP/hit, meaning it would only take 11 hits to kill Xykon. :smallwink:

[Feefers]

The PCs are assumed to be around 13th-14th level thus far, and Xykon is 20th-level, minimum. Check out the Class and Level Geekery (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912) thread for the rationale.

Thanks for dat, helps figure some things out.

Spoiler for just being ... long.

The maximum falling damage you can suffer is 20d6 (yes really) you can fall 5 MILES and still only take a maximum of 20d6.

Either they have a mean Games-master (makes some sense...) who just went "NO! No falling damage for you! Instaglib!!"

But given his "Hope for minimal falling damage (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0443.html)" that seems unlikely.

There's a point to this, stick with me :)

Now given Roy just took a Meteor Swarm to the face which does 4*6d6 damage at point blank range, we will have to assume his Dex is dump so no saving throw for you for 1/2 damage

This gives us a mere 24 to 144 hp spread.

Given a cure critical is 4d8+1/spell caster level we will go with our assumption of 13th level characters so;
17 to 45

This gives us a modified damage of 7 to 127.

Assuming Roy is 13th level with his no Con mod, that gives him a hp range of 23 to 130.

Now here's the clever maths bit, the minimum falling damage from 20d6 is of course 20 pushing the total damage for this encounter to;

27 to 147 (of course if he doesn't take minimum it's from 27 to 247...)

Assuming Roy is just plain unlucky but took minimum falling damage and died anyway on -17 hit points.

Poor Roy.


Anywho long time reader second time poster (I said hi >.>) it's very good to have OoTS back.

[Nathander]

Wow, I honestly didn't expect it to be updated THIS early, but am I ever glad I chose to check it out. Helped make my day, it has. And it's nice to see a strip revolving around Roy again. I hope this is a sign that we'll get more of a focus on him again.


Heck, even a neutral plane might be relatively relaxing by Miko's standards.
I am a little curious as to how the Greenhilts bumped into eachother, though.

I'll just say this about Miko: I don't think we'll EVER see the plane she went to after death, because if we do see it, there's no doubt in my mind that it'll start a whole new debate war around her, with people arguing she should be where she is, and others arguing "no, she should be here". And I'm assuming Rich is going to try to avoid these fights from beginning anew.

And, from what I can tell, the reason Roy and Eugene bumped into one another is because, basically, they're the only ones stuck out there. Neither of them, apparently, can enter into their given plane until the bloodoath of vengeance has been fulfilled.

[Aerysil]

Nothing like a bitter 'ol Dad to kick off OotS again.

Hope you enjoyed your rest, Rich, welcome back :smallsmile:

[kierthos]

The +5 of Roy's weapon is magic, which overcomes the DR. He would do 11 HP/hit, meaning it would only take 11 hits to kill Xykon. :smallwink:
A lich's DR is Magic and Bludgeoning, so it would have to be a magic club or mace or quarterstaff (or other bludgeoning weapon/sufficiently high level monk).

Mind you, in one game some friends were in, one of the characters beat a lich to "death" with a magic rock.

[moscatabaco]

As it happens, I spent some time of my morning listening to my dad grumbling about myself too.

:roy:, I feel his pain :P

[TroyXavier]

Yay, we're back. Feather Fall...that's just too funny.:smallbiggrin:

[Miraqariftsky]

Feather fall! GAHAHAHAHA!

[katsniffen]

Woohoo! Thanks Rich, and welcome back

[Daedalus73]

Thank god you're back. We missed you, OOTS! :)

[factotum]

-Xykon has around 117 HP (asuming he is a 18 level Lich sorcerer = 18d12, average 6.5). Roy would've have to conect around 20 hits to take Xykon down, and I don't think he was close.

Even if Roy only did 1 point of damage to Xykon during their entire fight (and he did a fair bit more--Xykon needed an Inflict Critical Wounds from Tsukiko to heal him up afterwards) he still did 100% more damage to the sorcerer than his father ever did. That's the point that was being made.

[ag30476]

Stunningly dysfunctional interpersonal dynamics indeed! Welcome back rich!

[TheKnifeofTrust]

Excellent, "What's eating you son? Oh, that's right, VULTURES!"
:smallbiggrin: I got a kick outa that.

"Feather Fall." "..."

hahaha so good, Welcome Back Rich!

[Alfryd]

And, from what I can tell, the reason Roy and Eugene bumped into one another is because, basically, they're the only ones stuck out there. Neither of them, apparently, can enter into their given plane until the bloodoath of vengeance has been fulfilled.
An interesting hypothesis. But how, then, did Eugene substitute himself for the visiting Celestial, or manage to meet up with Violet? Why would the blood oath suddenly kick in now? I can understand if Eugene's subject to a restraining order after his little BoPLaG escapade, but then, why should Roy suffer?

And I'm assuming Rich is going to try to avoid these fights from beginning anew.
Rich has stated explicitly that he has never tampered with the broad outline of the plot over forum furore or lack thereof.

[Pepz]

I could join in with the level and damage geekery, join in about the feather fall, instead all I need to utter is

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOO
COMIC!

and AAAARGH STILL TOO MUCH BLUE *puts on shades* :smallcool: that's better :smalltongue:

[Ishha]

Yesssss!Finally our Oots less days are OVER:smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: !Loved the last joke too.:smallsmile:

[happyturtle]

I'm having a hard time seeing Julia voluntarily going after Xykon. Eugene may be able to push Roy's buttons, but Julia is just going to say 'Yeah, right dad' and go right back to her own interests. And she's not carrying the +5 Sword of Parental Nagging with her, so he doesn't even have a way to talk to her at the moment.

[Draz74]

Poor Roy - his dad's really not being fair here at ALL. A wizard should have much more logical arguments!

OK, the "Vultures!" line was clever, and almost accurate. (Though technically Haley and Belkar already saved him from the vultures.)

Second, as someone else mentioned, Roy's "shiny metal stick" did a lot more to Xykon than anything Eugene ever did, as far as we know.

Third, as far as "losing the city" goes ... Xykon didn't take the city at all! Redcloak and the hobgoblins did! If Eugene wants Roy to have focused on Xykon, then technically he should be thanking him for having ignored the marauding goblins!

Fourth, Eugene is ridiculing Roy's strategy of getting raised from the dead why? Eugene himself, in his futile process of getting revenge on Xykon, had to have his friends bring him back from death how many times? Six?

I guess Eugene does have a point that, in hindsight, Roy standing by and letting Miko kill Shojo was a pretty dumb blunder. Though it didn't seem so obvious what was going to happen at the time.

But fifth, "Feather Fall" - yeah, that would have saved Julia from the 300-foot fall. Congratulations, Oh Witty One. Never mind the fact that, before she experienced the aforementioned 300-foot fall, her body would have been burnt to a -70 HP crisp by the Meteor Swarm! At least Roy survived that initial spell!

[Pvednes]

This IS divine retribution for Roy's sins! Remember this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0171.html)?

[happyturtle]

This IS divine retribution for Roy's sins! Remember this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0171.html)?

*snicker* Good catch, Pvednes! :smallbiggrin:

[shakes019]

Welcome back Rich!

Hope you're feeling better and got your much-needed rest.

Enjoyed the strip, and can't wait for more.

On the subject of Roy's and Eugene's access to the afterlife: (Start of Darkness spoiler)
the Blood Oath of Vengeance must be fulfilled by the oath giver or direct descendant before the oath giver can rest in peace. I would have to check again, but I would think that Roy should be free of the oath after his own death, because he didn't get the tattoo.

[LM TR]

Too bad there's no magic shops in the OotS world, or Roy might have bought one.

´f course there are - remember where V bought the potions of heroism

[lord_khaine]

but the case is, its only Eugene who swore the blood oath, and though it could be fullfilled by his decendents, by the wording of the oath it shouldnt bind them.

[Dunamin]

Poor Roy - his dad's really not being fair here at ALL. A wizard should have much more logical arguments!

OK, the "Vultures!" line was clever, and almost accurate. (Though technically Haley and Belkar already saved him from the vultures.)

Second, as someone else mentioned, Roy's "shiny metal stick" did a lot more to Xykon than anything Eugene ever did, as far as we know.

Third, as far as "losing the city" goes ... Xykon didn't take the city at all! Redcloak and the hobgoblins did! If Eugene wants Roy to have focused on Xykon, then technically he should be thanking him for having ignored the marauding goblins!

Fourth, Eugene is ridiculing Roy's strategy of getting raised from the dead why? Eugene himself, in his futile process of getting revenge on Xykon, had to have his friends bring him back from death how many times? Six?

I guess Eugene does have a point that, in hindsight, Roy standing by and letting Miko kill Shojo was a pretty dumb blunder. Though it didn't seem so obvious what was going to happen at the time.

But fifth, "Feather Fall" - yeah, that would have saved Julia from the 300-foot fall. Congratulations, Oh Witty One. Never mind the fact that, before she experienced the aforementioned 300-foot fall, her body would have been burnt to a -70 HP crisp by the Meteor Swarm! At least Roy survived that initial spell!
While I fully share in the sympathy for Roy, I think you might have missed the point here.

Eugene is probably very conscious about being unfair. In fact, I think the geezer is perfectly aware of most flaws in his arguments. His intention here isn't a logical debate - it's to vent his frustrations on what he couldn't accomplish himself, coupled with frustration over his son defying him and choosing another path than his own. Eugene is a jerk.

[Kashkalgar]

Why can't a third level wizard facing a 300ft fall just time the casting of feather fall so that it takes effect three-quarters of the way through the fall? No damage.

[Vulion]

Yay! Rich is back!

Boo! Roy's dad is a total ass!

[SteveMB]

I'm having a hard time seeing Julia voluntarily going after Xykon. Eugene may be able to push Roy's buttons, but Julia is just going to say 'Yeah, right dad' and go right back to her own interests. And she's not carrying the +5 Sword of Parental Nagging with her, so he doesn't even have a way to talk to her at the moment.

She might be stuck with the blood oath, but I don't think even the risk of being unable to find peace in the afterlife will make much of an impression (at least now; it might seem more significant when she gets older...).

[Sturmjaeger]

Heh, DBZ jokes.

Man, Roy's dad really is an a**hole.

[Ganurath]

Fantastic comic, with affirmation of Julia getting the oath passed to her to boot. I wonder who Julia is going to assemble for the Council of the Staff. I'll laugh if we see the return of a certain duo of evil gnome druid and half-elf conjurer.

Oh, and welcome back Rich.

[Varachan]

-Well... Liches have DR 15/Magic AND bludgeoning... asuming Roy does
2d6(average 7)+7(str 20)+5 (+5 weapon)+2(weapon specialization)... dealing 21 damage average, -15 for not overcming the DR, we have him dealing an average of 6 hp per slash...
-Xykon has around 117 HP (asuming he is a 18 level Lich sorcerer = 18d12, average 6.5). Roy would've have to conect around 20 hits to take Xykon down, and I don't think he was close.

Not really.

You've forgotten that Roy's got the Power Attack feat and can afford to convert a bunch of attack bonus into damage against a lich. His attack bonus is probably:

13 (base) +5 (Str) +5 (magic) +2 (weapon focus, greater weapon focus) = +25.

Again: he's swinging at +25/+20/+15. Assuming Xykon's AC is 22 (+5 natural, +4 mage armor, +2 deflection, +1 dex, or something like that), Roy can afford to put 8-10 points in power attack, doing 22-26 damage after DR in one hit.

My campaigns use a house rule that doing the "wrong" damage type with a weapon capable of another type is a -4 to hit. (flat of sword, etc.) I forget if this is an official rule, but Roy could bypass the DR and get another 7 points per swing (since it cancels four points of power attack) like this.

[Kyroswolf]

Welcome back, Rich, and muches greatness on the return strip.

[Tharr]

Great now for the great Roy to find grand master Ki while on snake road.

[Welf]

This is a good OotS (longer) weekend; On Friday I got my SoD at last, and Monday a new comic. Life is good. And afterlife funny for those who watch.

[FireDrake]

"Oh! That's right!... Vultures!"

Hehe. :smallbiggrin: Classic.

[Ilmen Darkflame]

Welcome back, Giant! Masterwork comic, too.

[Sothicus]

Welcome back! Thanks for the bonus comic!

[factotum]

Why can't a third level wizard facing a 300ft fall just time the casting of feather fall so that it takes effect three-quarters of the way through the fall? No damage.

They can. The description of the spell specifically states that it instantly changes the speed of the falling object to 60 feet per round, though, so if they were already travelling a lot faster than that, the effects ought to be pretty much the same as if they'd just hit the ground!

[Tobrian]

It's like the Odd Couple in the Afterlife. :smallbiggrin:

Oh look, it's Mount Celestia in the background, destination of those of LAWFUL Good alignment like Roy. No place for Eugene, then. He mentions they won't let him into Arcadia... so that makes him Chaotic Good? (I'm too lazy to check in my Planescape manual.) It's quite clear after reading Start of Darkness that Eugene Greenhilt is definitely chaotic in alignment, but personally I had billed him as bordering on CN. Oh well.

Good thing the unfulfilled Oath has kept father and son out of any of those walled-off gated community exclusive afterlife clubs, or they would have never met. :smallwink: Stupid Planescape.


Im not sure how to quote, so I'll reply to the person who said 3+7=10 and didn't get it, it was supposed to show how ridiculously little Roy knew about magic. I thought it was funny...

On the contrary, Roy's line shows that he knows exactly what he's talking about; he knows about the whole tedious affair of spellcaster class levels not being the same as spell levels, and that non-epic spells come in 9 levels.

Come on, Roy grew up as the son of an archwizard. His INT is.... very high, at least high enough that his father wanted him to go to wizard college and the mindflayer chose to try to eat Roy's brain instead of V's brain, even though V claims to have a "delectable 18 intelligence". I'm pretty sure Roy has a rank or two in Knowledge (arcana), even if it's a non-class skill for fighters (stupid rules).

Well... Roy is putting a lot of confidence in Haley and Durkon to raise him. Unfortunately, by the Law of Irony, this is as bad as saying "What can possibly go wrong?"

[Porthos]

They can. The description of the spell specifically states that it instantly changes the speed of the falling object to 60 feet per round, though, so if they were already travelling a lot faster than that, the effects ought to be pretty much the same as if they'd just hit the ground!

You know, there's a herd of Catgirls over yonder that are starting to look awfully nervous. :smallwink:

[Porthos]

It's like the Odd Couple in the Afterlife. :smallbiggrin:

Oh look, it's Mount Celestia in the background, destination of those of LAWFUL Good alignment like Roy. No place for Eugene, then. He mentions they won't let him into Arcadia... so that makes him Chaotic Good? (I'm too lazy to check in my Planescape manual.) It's quite clear after reading Start of Darkness that Eugene Greenhilt is definitely chaotic in alignment, but personally I had billed him as bordering on CN. Oh well.

Eugene is Lawful Good, confirmed via this strip, SoD and OtOoPCs. :smallsmile:

[skeeter_dan]

Thoroughly entertaining. I was in danger of laughing out loud in the office. Instead I had a ridiculous smirk on my face for several minutes, which got me more than a few strange looks...

[JasonDoomsblade]

It was just what I was expecting. Nice job Rich. And I guess if Julia was with Roy at the time, Feather Fall would have really helped afterall. Heh, never thought about it at first.::biggrin:

[Haruspex]

Poor Roy. No rest for the wicked, eh. But honestly, a wizard of Roy's level couldn't have beaten Xykon either. A cleric might have pulled it off, or possibly a druid. :smallamused:

Or a warblade. (takes cover).

[Doug Lampert]

Eugene is Lawful Good, confirmed via this strip, SoD and OtOoPCs. :smallsmile:

How he treats Roy is largely irrelevant to his alignment.

Good <> Nice. Lawful <> Polite. Chaos <> Sarcastic. Evil <> Rude.

Good indicates that he'd help others even at some real cost or risk to himself. Even if he doesn't actually know the other people involved.

Lawful indicates that he has a code of conduct or ethics and considers that code to override what's currently convienient.

We've seen nothing that would contradict LG for Eugene.

DougL

[TreesOfDeath]

End panel was lame, rest of it was awesome. Really awesome, especially the feather fall bit.
Can't wait till he meets Miko, that will rock heavean

[Draz74]

You've forgotten that Roy's got the Power Attack feat and can afford to convert a bunch of attack bonus into damage against a lich. His attack bonus is probably:

13 (base) +5 (Str) +5 (magic) +2 (weapon focus, greater weapon focus) = +25.

Again: he's swinging at +25/+20/+15. Assuming Xykon's AC is 22 (+5 natural, +4 mage armor, +2 deflection, +1 dex, or something like that), Roy can afford to put 8-10 points in power attack, doing 22-26 damage after DR in one hit.

My campaigns use a house rule that doing the "wrong" damage type with a weapon capable of another type is a -4 to hit. (flat of sword, etc.) I forget if this is an official rule, but Roy could bypass the DR and get another 7 points per swing (since it cancels four points of power attack) like this.

That's actually not an official rule, so let's assume Roy can't use it. But there's one other factor in Roy's favor that you didn't consider:

Undead-Bane! His sword's magical bonuses are now +7 attack, +7+2d6 damage!

If Xykon's AC is indeed 22 (a reasonable estimate, although I don't know where he would have picked up a deflection bonus, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt), and Roy's attack bonus is indeed +27, then let's plug those into the Power Attack Calculator. (Which, unfortunately, will be slightly inaccurate because it doesn't have an option for "target is immune to crits.")

On a full attack, Roy should Power Attack for -6. Including misses and criticals, this will give him an average damage per swing of about 33 before DR. So he's doing about 54 damage a round to Xykon on a full attack. Let's say only 50, average, because his crits don't actually do extra damage.

On a single attack, Power Attacking should be increased to -7. This gets his average damage safely up to 30 (including misses) even with the DR.

So assuming he had two rounds on the dragon to whack away at Xykon without retaliation, while Xykon was trying to tell him something (we never found out what) ... one single attack, one full attack, and one attack of opportunity as Xykon flew away ... he probably did over 100 damage to Xykon. Not bad! (The statistics get a little messy, because we as readers can actually see which of his attacks hit and which missed -- it looks like the AoO was the only one that actually missed.)

[feras]

Great! :smallbiggrin:

[kerravon]

What can I say? Thank goodness OOTS is back!

[YohanLeafheart]

Best retort ever! :D

QFT. Eugene is the man. Ghost, I mean. lol reading this one. And missed a lot this comic.

[BRC]

Eugene has been hanging out with the ghost of groucho marx methinks.

[chibibar]

Wait.. If Julia is level 3 that her max spell level is 2 isn't it? max level is 9... so it is 7 level below.

2+7 = 9

[BobTheDog]

Does this look like "Dragonball Z" to you?!?

Looks like your time off really helped get the creative juices going, eh, Rich?

Hope you're feeling better, too...

[Tobrian]

The maximum falling damage you can suffer is 20d6 (yes really) you can fall 5 MILES and still only take a maximum of 20d6.

Just like in real-world physics, where once you reach the max falling speed in a gravitational field your speed doesn't increase any more.


How he treats Roy is largely irrelevant to his alignment.

Huh? So your actions and intentions are not relevant to determining your alignment? Then what is?

Sorry, saying your actions are irrelevant directly leads to people playing a paladin and using the faulty logic of saying, "Because I'm a paladin, my alignment is lawful good by definition. Because my alignment is lawful good, whatever I do must be lawful and good and justified because I'm the one doing it. Even if I just did basically the same thing as the guy with CE on his character sheet, or at least condoned the doing of it by someone else. Cuz that guy is EVIL and I'm not."

Sorry, people setting alignments first and then justifying every action of a character through the lense of that alignment, instead of alignment simply being the game-mechanical description of a character's personality, is a pet peeve of mine.



Good <> Nice. Lawful <> Polite. Chaos <> Sarcastic. Evil <> Rude..

Agreed.


Good indicates that he'd help others even at some real cost or risk to himself. Even if he doesn't actually know the other people involved.

Lawful indicates that he has a code of conduct or ethics and considers that code to override what's currently convienient.

We've seen nothing that would contradict LG for Eugene.

Sorry, what? Eugene lies a lot, even to his own son, whenever it's convenient for him (see Start of Darkness for especially fine examples). Since when did Eugene ever respect laws and rules or have a code of conduct any more binding than a pirate's "code of honor"?

Neutral or Chaotic characters CAN follow rules (especially rules they made themselves) whenever they feel like it, chaotic characters simply abandon them when it suits them.

I know that some game writers at Wizards of the Coast have recently been promoting the idea of "personal code of conduct" = lawful above all other alignment aspects of Lawfulness, and if you ask me that's supremely stupid, because by that count EVERY character except the most crazy or Discordian would be lawful! Everyone has a personal code of conduct, duh. Thieves Guild, anyone?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#lawVsChaos

Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.

Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.

"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

"Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.

Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel. She is honest but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others.

Devotion to law or chaos may be a conscious choice, but more often it is a personality trait that is recognized rather than being chosen. Neutrality on the lawful-chaotic axis is usually simply a middle state, a state of not feeling compelled toward one side or the other. Some few such neutrals, however, espouse neutrality as superior to law or chaos, regarding each as an extreme with its own blind spots and drawbacks.

Animals and other creatures incapable of moral action are neutral. Dogs may be obedient and cats free-spirited, but they do not have the moral capacity to be truly lawful or chaotic.

[ref]

Feather Fall.

A nice conclusion to an amazing series of arguments and counter-arguments. Welcome back on board, Giant. :smallbiggrin:

[Porthos]

Le Sigh.

Tobrian, the one you want to complain to about Eugene Greenhilt being LG is Rich. He's the one that made that call, you know. :smalltongue:

Anyway:

(Origins Spoilers)
Roy: Now, my Dad is nothing if not Lawful...

(Sod Spoilers)
Eugene was all set to get in the Lawful Good heaven, until it was noticed that he had an outstanding Blood Oath. If it wasn't for the Blood Oath, Eugene would have been allowed in.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Alignments Are Guidelines Not Straitjackets. You can be a pompous jerk and still be Lawful Good. You can care for other people and still be Evil. It's just the way it is. :smallsmile:

If you want to see Rich's takes on alignment, I direct you to these two articles. They're pretty good reads. :smallsmile:

Emotional Responses (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/XbsQgS9YYu9g3HZBAGE.html)
Villain Workshop (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/rTKEivnsYuZrh94H1Sn.html)

As for the specific case of Eugene Greenhilt, we haven't seen enough of his life to really get a accurate call on his alignment. 95% of his actions that we have seen are concerning his son. And since he has a strained relationship with his son, to put it mildly, it really isn't fair to use those strips as a guide to his alignment.

Or to put it another way, please give me a character trait that Eugene Greenhilt has that Roy doesn't have. Sarcastic? Check. Shown to lie from time to time? Check. Contemptuous of (perceived) shortcomings in others? Check. Willing to participate in a Mass Deception to Kill Xykon? Check.

Face it, if Roy Greenhilt is Lawful Good, then so to is Eugene Greenhilt. You can't show me a single thing that Eugene has done that Roy hasn't either done or is capable of doing. Thus is the tremendous irony in the fact that they don't get along. They're just too similar. :smallsmile:

[RBPRX1204]

Great comic, and welcome back. We've missed you!

[Surfing HalfOrc]

You know, there's a herd of Catgirls over yonder that are starting to look awfully nervous. :smallwink:

A "herd?" Are you sure that's the cluster word?

Considering the sailor uniform many of them wear, I'd have gone with a "school" of Catgirls. Or a "giggle" of catgirls. :smallbiggrin:

[Ariko]

<Long, contented sigh...>

I still think Eugene is a huge jerk, and if I were Roy I'd seriously consider changing my alignment when I'm resurrected to NG, just to make sure I wasn't damned to an eternity with the guy... but I've gotta admit he got all the best lines here.

"Oh! That's right! Vultures!"


Meh. The nymber of rules lawyers [and number of different, yet good explanations of 7] runs me shame :smallyuk:

Anyway, two more nitpicks: AC is one of the oldest bastions of good? The good industry must be pretty new, then :smalltongue:

Also: weren't R & E different alignments so how they ended on one plane?
And you're right: Miko's either went to mechanus or ninth layer of hell :smallamused:

Plus: third level wizard neither has hp too survive MS', nor feather fall of enough caliber to last 300 feet. And Roy is supposed to be the groups' rules lawyer :smallyuk:

SoD spoiler:
They can't enter the afterlife because of Eugene's blood oath. so until Xykon is destroyed, its irrelevant what Roy's alignment is, Eugene can (and will) hang around him to mock him.


An interesting hypothesis. But how, then, did Eugene substitute himself for the visiting Celestial, or manage to meet up with Violet? Why would the blood oath suddenly kick in now? I can understand if Eugene's subject to a restraining order after his little BoPLaG escapade, but then, why should Roy suffer?

Rich has stated explicitly that he has never tampered with the broad outline of the plot over forum furore or lack thereof.

Not a hypothesis. See above spoiler.

[chibibar]

But like all thing that are magic, you can cast feather fall when you near the ground and you'll be ok. :) Magic cancelled inertia or something.

[docstrange]

I find it very interesting that the characters in OOTS refer to themselves as PCs - and in the latest strip Eugene Greenhilt refers to Roy as a PC as well. This brings up an important theological point: to be a player character means that the actions of that character are controlled by a unique entity - the player. We've seen the OOTS characters behave as though they are their own players: for example, when Belkar roleplayed to get enough XP to level up (after killing the rat failed to accomplish this).

Fine - but now consider NPCs which are all controlled by the same entity, the DM! If the players are self-aware as PCs, what are their thoughts on the NPCs and monsters? Do they see Hinjo, Xykon, and random townspeople as all being controlled by a single entity?

And what about other adventuring parties? Are they comprised of PCs too, just different players? Were the characters that originally constructed the Gates all PCs, and are they the same "players" as the current crew, or different ones? Are there multiple DMs out there? Gaaahhhhh!

I'm going back over to the Erfworld boards now, <sarcasm> where at least everyone is talking about plot points and comparative literature and not getting embroiled in trying to puzzle out game mechanics and idiosyncracies like this which are really subservient to the story itself. </sarcasm>

[PhallicWarrior]

Ah, drat. My addiction is back.



And I was all set to go cold turkey, too.

[Rum's Gone]

Feather Fall

Classic. Just, just. Classic.

Ahh....finally my fix of oots has arrived....The two weeks I spent in semi-reality, pining for Oots is finally, finally OVER!!:smallbiggrin:

[Swordguy]

w00t! New OOTS!

And, yes, I know it's been commented on a million times. I don't care. The DBZ reference ("took long enough") was bloody great!

[Zictor]

Feather Fall


Perfect ending for a much waited strip.

[Etiainen]

It's BAAACK! BWAHAHAHAAA!!!!

OOomg this comix is too much for me...Too many "funny" after a long absence...NURSE! AAAARGH!!

[Omicroncubed]

Nice comic Rich!

And welcome back :smallbiggrin:

[SteveMB]

I find it very interesting that the characters in OOTS refer to themselves as PCs - and in the latest strip Eugene Greenhilt refers to Roy as a PC as well.

I think that's just part of the routine fourth-wall-breaking that is practically a running gag in OotS.


I'm going back over to the Erfworld boards now, <sarcasm> where at least everyone is talking about plot points and comparative literature and not getting embroiled in trying to puzzle out game mechanics and idiosyncracies like this which are really subservient to the story itself. </sarcasm>

*snerk* :smallbiggrin:

[Doug Lampert]

Huh? So your actions and intentions are not relevant to determining your alignment? Then what is?

Where did I say actions and intentions are not relevant to determining your alignment? I said that a SPECIFIC set of actions. Those of Eugine toward Roy, were not relevant to Eugine's alignment. We haven't seen him do anything with Roy that a LG wouldn't do, and do without alignment conflict. But we also haven't seen him do anything with Roy a CE wouldn't do, and do without alignment conflict.

Actions that fit well with every alignment don't tell you anything about alignment and hence are irrelevant. Learn to read for comprehension please.

Being sarcastic toward your son does not indicate alignment. Wanting your son to follow a particular carrier does not indicate alignment. Trying to manipulate your son doesn't indicate alignment.

Just WHICH action of Eugine toward Roy do you think indicates anything about his alignment? That he tries to manipulate Roy to kill Xykon could be Good since Xykon is a great evil that threatens the world. But it could just as well be Evil since Eugine is bound by his oath and might selfishly want it to be fulfilled. No alignment information, hence no relevance to his alignment.

DougL

[Deepblue706]

Glad OoTS is back!

But, the DBZ reference was in rather poor taste. Things that bad should never be brought up in a respectable comic like OoTS - it really ruins credibility. What's next, pokemon? Oh, wait...

The rest of the conversation between Eugene and Roy was fine, though. Please, Rich, just stop with the jabs at what is already universally declared as total, and utter crap. It's like Mike Tyson getting into the ring with a 5-year-old. Gimme a break.

[dsavereide]

Hey You, Get Off of My Cloud!

Great title. Makes me wish the titles were displayed with the strip somewhere. The only one easily seen is the current one.

I am confused about the blood oath. Eugene took the oath and when he died it passed on to Roy, right? Doesn't matter that it was his father who took the oath, it's on him now as though he had taken it himself? Has it already passed to Julia, so even after Roy is ressurected it will still be on her as well? Then both children have the oath on them - maybe they have to team up.

Roy could have said something about the fact that Eugene spent the last 20 years of his life ignoring his oath, even when he was told where he could find Xykon. If wizards were so great, he could have put an end to Xykon before any of this happened. The oath didn't mean anything to him until he died.

[Supermagle]

And that is exactly why my wizard character always had Feather Fall memorized. :-)

[Seragon]

It would be certainly pointless for Julia. As a 3rd level wizard, she'd only get 180 feet of feather falling, leaving 120 feet for her to plummet to the ground at full speed. And that's IF Xykon rolled all 1's on his damage roll for the Meteor Swarm.

I didn't read the last coupel pages before I had to quote, so this may have been said already.

Of course her 120 feet of Feather fall would stop her. She just has to wait until she free falls a bit before casting it. Any good rules lawyer or sky diver would argue it out with the DM and either convince him to let them cast after free falling or at bare minimum make a INT roll to see if they got the count right and activated the Feather Fall when they were closer to the ground than 120 feet.

A real rules lawyer with a Physics background would wip out the equations and calculate it our for the DM...

Player:

d=.5 G t^2, so falling 300 feet...

I have 4.3 seconds before I hit the ground, so I just have to wait until the third second of free fall and then cast my spell and I will float the rest of the way.

DM: You can't cast it like that.

Player: You are so full of bull. Have you ever been sky diving? 4.3 seconds is an eternity when in free fall! I could make a cup of coffe and read the sports section before I woudl have to start casting...

Argument ensues about free fall and sky diving with the DM pointing out that the player has never sky dived either and watching re-runs of Macgyver does not make him an expert on the Physics fo a free fall... :smallwink:

[factotum]

I am confused about the blood oath. Eugene took the oath and when he died it passed on to Roy, right? Doesn't matter that it was his father who took the oath, it's on him now as though he had taken it himself? Has it already passed to Julia, so even after Roy is ressurected it will still be on her as well? Then both children have the oath on them - maybe they have to team up.


In "On the Origin of PCs" Eugene states that his blood oath binds his children too--that means it has always bound both Roy and Julia equally. The reason she's not been involved much in the quest to kill Xykon is mainly because no-one has told her about it--Eugene told Roy because he wanted him to pass it on to Julia, not try to take it on himself.

[EvilJames]

Bwa-hahahaha.....
That was classic:smallbiggrin:

[Glass Mouse]

Yay! New comic! I had completely forgotten that today was the day - so that was a very pleasant surprise!

Glad to see that you are back, Rich. I hope you've gotten better. Just remember to take another break if you need it. You have very understanding (though also very addicted) fans :smallsmile:


There were a lot of great moments in todays strip. I must admit, though, that I was a bit disappointed by the "Feather Fall" retort. I was just so easy to find a snarky answer that Roys silence seemed a lot more forced than it should. I mean - he has a high intelligence; he should be able to answer back to his jerky and completely unreasonable father. Alright, Roy is obviously a very patient and nice guy, but he is not THAT nice. He can't be. No one can.

To the Roy being kept out of the afterlife diskussion I, too, don't understand why Roy is bound in the same way his father is. The most logical thing would be that he had the opportunity of helping his father out but that it wouldn't affect him directly if he choose not to. That would be most fair, at least. But well, I guess magic isn't always fair.
And I quess it will be explained later on.

Oh, and Eugene is such a horrible jerk! Is it very bad that I cannot help but find him amusing? - especially when he is with Roy! They are a match made in heaven (very bad pun intended) with their snarky and sarcastic retorts.
Though I don't think (as someone else wrote) that they are completely alike. They have many of the same personality traits, yes, but please note that Roy is actually trying to be a better person. He is really fighting to put away the unpleasant traits he has inherited - and he is succeding, little by little.
Eugene, however, is just a jerk.

[Keri Thornwood]

Yay!!! So glad you're back!

I was lonely....

[Wender]

A "herd?" Are you sure that's the cluster word?

Considering the sailor uniform many of them wear, I'd have gone with a "school" of Catgirls. Or a "giggle" of catgirls. :smallbiggrin:

I'm pretty sure it's a kawaii of catgirls. :smallamused:

[Starlong]

Great start


You gotta feel sorry for Roy, because in the end of his death, he probably won't be able to get the last sarcastic comment in...

[synnerman]

*Plotz* Yay new comic!

[xatm092]

Boody hilarious, and well worth the wait, both the DBZ reference and the final joke make me literally laugh out loud.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I'm pretty sure it's a kawaii of catgirls. :smallamused:

You, sir, win an Internet. Don't waste it on kawaii sites! :smallbiggrin:

[Tordek]

I hope Roy comes back, but wouldn't it be hilarious if he was REINCARNATED instead of resurrected?

Roy as a buxom Elf-maid would be hilarious.

[hendrake]

Waitaminute...Julia is 3rd level?

And she's still wasting time in school?!?

Schools out, girl! Now get out there and kills some gnolls or something for loot and experience points!!!

Good to have you back, Giant. Thanks for the comic.

[Fabio_MP]

New comic is up.

beautiful and welcome back

liked the strip very much

[The Tygre]

Welcome back, Rich! Kudos on the DBZ references. Heh heh, it's funny because it's true...

[Emperor Ing]

:thog: yaay! the new comic is up! thog happier than free ice cream day!

[Caractacus]

As some others have remarked, the so-called snappy line from Roy's dad is perhaps overrated.

"Feather Fall" is in fact a rather poor line that just begs for the comeback "Dead five rounds before with the first hit from Xykon".

Eugene is a bit of a sad old man. He's more lucky than he knows that Roy is actually related to him, as anyone else would explain his shortcomings to him succinctly :smallannoyed: and move on.

[LordVader]

This could've been the worst comic Rich ever made (and it isn't) and I would still be happy. Roy is back! =D

Also, yeah, the two Finger of Deaths and the Meteor Swarm would have left a bit of a mark on Julia. At least Roy showed he could go toe-to-toe with Xykon if they weren't on a battlefield that inherently favored him.

[Roderick_BR]

Yay, it's back!
And starting off with Roy and his dad, something many were waiting for.

Now, in Roy's defense: If he were a wizard, by the time he would be falling, he would have already ran out of hit points.

[One Skunk Todd]

What are the flying creatures in the first panel?

[Spiryt]

Obviously some angels.

[skywalker]

WELCOME BACK GIANT!

Pretty funny comic too!

Uh, ten words, ten words... waitaminute, this is 16 total...

[A Rainy Knight]

Nothing makes me laugh quite like how Eugene gets on Roy's case.

"If you were a wizard, you could, say, turn Xykon into a frog. But since you're a fighter, I guess sticking him with sharp pieces of metal will have to suffice." Or something to that effect. :smallbiggrin:

[David Argall]

Fine comic, even if it doesn't really advance the plot. It will make a reasonable way to open book 4.




If the players are self-aware as PCs, what are their thoughts on the NPCs and monsters? Do they see Hinjo, Xykon, and random townspeople as all being controlled by a single entity?
Yes and no. They are aware, at times at least, that NPCs and PCs are all part of a story, and thus controlled by a single entity. But they make the standard assumption that each individual, NPC or PC, is self motivated.


And what about other adventuring parties? Are they comprised of PCs too, just different players? Were the characters that originally constructed the Gates all PCs, and are they the same "players" as the current crew, or different ones?
PC within the story really means "prominent characters" rather than player characters. The NPCs use the term to refer to certain types of behavior, mostly heroic, and there are large number of individuals who make use of game rules to advance in ability, and are effectively indistinguishable from the PCs.



It would be certainly pointless for Julia. As a 3rd level wizard, she'd only get 180 feet of feather falling, leaving 120 feet for her to plummet to the ground at full speed. And that's IF Xykon rolled all 1's on his damage roll for the Meteor Swarm.
As has been pointed out, Roy's challenge was to name one thing that would have been useful in his battle with the lich that his sis could have provided. The fact she would not have survived long enough to do that is thus ruled unimportant.
And Feather fall has routinely been ruled from the days of pre-AD&D as castable at the instant, allowing you to stop at foot 1 or foot 299 of a 300 foot drop [which can be fun, at least for the DM, when you don't know if it is a 300 foot drop or a 100 ft drop].



Rich has stated explicitly that he has never tampered with the broad outline of the plot over forum furore or lack thereof.
Keep in mind that he is the one defining "broad", and he has used comments here in minor ways at least, and has an acknowledged weakness for wanting to surprise us, even at cost to the story. So we can't dismiss the possibility that any out of comic statement is simply a lie designed to set us up for some surprise in a later comic. We have to take such statements seriously, but we do not have to deem them gospel.

In the case at hand, the appearance of Miko is entirely possible. Yes, she is in the same LG part of Heaven as Roy [Just why do people deny evidence because they like or dislike somebody?], and quite possibly waiting for forms to be processed. So we can have her on screen very easily.

But, much as she adds to the story, Miko was the most thoroly killed character in the comic to date. Bringing her back, even for a scene like this, seems wrong.

As to the oath binding Roy as well as his dad? This is very standard, almost cliche. My distant ancestor X did Y, and ever since on their Z birthday, his children have suffered a horrible fate.
And Roy has personally confirmed the oath at least twice, so he has a weak case about avoiding the family curse.

[Arancaytar]

Favorite part:


Feather Fall

OWNED!

[Vidan]

great to see oots back in action!!! can't wait to see whats up next!

[Balathustrius]

Haha, great as always!

Hope you had a good hiatus, Giant. :smallsmile:

[Bitzeralisis]

Feather fall.

Tee hee.

[Em Blackleaf]

I actually forgot about it as soon as I came home from school.
It took me about 20 minutes to get to it! :smalltongue:

Great comic! :smallbiggrin:
Hope you feel better, Giant.

[itliaf]

Yay! it's back and its laugh out loud funny as usual.

Also, the DBZ joke was worth the fact that it reminded me that such an awful show ever existed.

[orcmonk89]

Hilarious. Love the return to form (not that you were out of it, of course).

[Balkash]

thank you for coming back. i missed OotS. and, on a side note, i thought it was interesting to find out some stuff about Xykon (well at least for those of us interested in his level and stats). otherwise, very well written.

[Moff Chumley]

DBZ jokes, feather fall, my life back...

It's been a good day :smallbiggrin:

[Icewalker]

Welcome back giant! And a great first back strip on top of it. (like we'd expect anything else from you :smallbiggrin: )

Hehe, DBZ reference.

[Adeptus]

Hurrah! The Giant's back! (And Roy's in purgatory)

[ImperiousLeader]

Yay, OotS is back!

Poor Roy.

[kirbsys]

So.... if Miko's not here, does it mean she went to the nine hells? :smallbiggrin:

Or she was just saved to torment Roy tomorrow? :smallamused:

And, does he mean that Xykon can cast Tenth level spells?

3+7 = 10, no matter how many times we add that up :smallconfused:

3rd level wizards can only cast second level spells, so Xykon can cast 9th levels spells.

And if this has alrady been posted, no I didn't see it.

Great comic BTW.

[Tach13]

I've loved this strip ever since it was shown to me by a friend, and even counting SOD and On the Origin of PC's, this was THE BEST comic yet. The Vulture line slowed my reading because I was laughing for a couple minutes.

Great to have you back Rich, and awesome first episode back.

[shakes019]

Okay, so I just checked the Start of Darkness:

The exact wording of Eugene's oath follows:

I, Eugene Greenhilt, swear on the blood that flows from my wounds this day that I shall not rest, in this life or any other, until I or my heirs have enacted horrible vengeance on those that have slighted me, named here as Xykon the Sorceror.

So, by my reading, Roy is not actually bound by the oath, but Eugene is continues to be so. Roy should be able to go and check in at the the Celestial Realm and leave his father behind.

[otakuryoga]

HALLELUJAH!!!

thank goodness its back....couldnt take the withdrawl symptoms much longer

is it just me...or does anyone else think roy REALLY wanted to slug his dad in 2nd to last panel?

[Aeriander]

I think that Eugene actually has a point.
What the hell was Roy thinking, battling on a flying dragon in mid flight when he cannot fly?

[sealemon]

Getting two-word owned by your dead father FTW. Nice to have you back, Rich and a great start to the new chapter!

[Naltyrr]

oh, so many great lines. (though Roy should have said he was Dead serious :smalltongue: ) Welcome Back Rich!

[EvilElitest]

Im not sure how to quote, so I'll reply to the person who said 3+7=10 and didn't get it, it was supposed to show how ridiculously little Roy knew about magic. I thought it was funny...

In reality, As a 3rd level wizard Julia would know only second level spells, and thus Xykon has a seven level advantage. Also, Roy has shown he knows quite a lot about magic
from,
EE

[Wanderer]

BRILLIANT one-line retort. Man, Roy's dad is REALLY on a roll today. Roy's not making any headway against him.

As for being responsible for evil overrunning one of the strongest bastions of the forces of good, I'm sure that's happened to everyone once or twice. Heck, one of my groups lost half the world to an invasion from the Shadow Plane before we could figure out how to close the portal, bring the sun back, and kill the various evil generals responsible for the mess.

Of course, the reason the portal existed at all was due to an earlier party failing to save the world...

ANYway. Comic. This was hilarious.

[Tmabbbb]

Well, I'm sure that with Roy in the afterlife, Eugene will have a chance to talk some sense into him. And I hope you had a great vacation, Giant.

[Commander Hayes]

Welcome back giant! And a great first back strip on top of it. (like we'd expect anything else from you :smallbiggrin: )

Hehe, DBZ reference.

There was also the CDI-Mario reference in the title. Not a bad comic, in my opinion.

[Leewei]

Bwahahaha. It's great to see you back in action, Rich!!!

[Shatteredtower]

Well, I'm sure that with Roy in the afterlife, Eugene will have a chance to talk some sense into him.

Are you kidding? You do know the real reason Eugene came to talk with his son, right?

He's put himself in position to hogtie the boy and take the resurrection express straight into Roy's body, which isn't on the verge of dying of old age. Hilarity ensues as Eugene proves horribly inept in handling this new lease on life, what was Roy's blossoming relationship with Celia, and the second shot at Xykon.

Sure, resurrection doesn't work like that in most D&D games, but neither do most conjuration spells suffer a hijacking by a ghost wizard.

And if that's what happens, I'll be even more surprised than the rest of you. :smallwink:

[Kekran]

Woo! Laugh out loud glee! Welcome Back!


So Happy! :elan:

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Okay, so I just checked the Start of Darkness:

The exact wording of Eugene's oath follows:


So, by my reading, Roy is not actually bound by the oath, but Eugene is continues to be so. Roy should be able to go and check in at the the Celestial Realm and leave his father behind.

True, Roy isn't bound by the oath, but does he look like he is going to belly up to the check-in desk, and call it a day?

Roy has a fight HE wants to finish, for his own reasons. Xykon will die trying to figure out why that dark skinned warrior keeps coming back. Blueblade, or something like that...

[serpent615]

OotS return!!!!! and with a hell of comic.....

DBZ comments were great....and "Fether Fall, ..." :smallbiggrin:clasic:smallbiggrin:

GREAT COMIC

[Griemont]

Best. Birthday Present. Ever. :smallamused:

[Heroic]

Welcome back rich! Excellent comic! Laughed my arse off with teh Dragonball Z comment!

[GrayMatter]

Well gee, I was going to make an official WB thread, but I guess this one will do in a pinch :) WB Rich, hope you're feeling better!

[Zargon]

Roy just isn't having a good day!
Lords of the Underworld ... I repent - indeed!
I expect that if/when resurrected, the blood oath still applies to Roy...

[Alair]

"What could she possibly do against him that I couldn't?!"

"Featherfall."

I got a very uncharitable snicker from that, thank you.

Does this mean Julia's going to be moving out of the side-story? That Roy's going to be stuck in Hell/Heaven a good while longer? Will he take his father's Dragonball Z advice to heart and train in some more useful class levels?