Clone Questions: Banishment and Demiplane, Polymorph, and more

[Damon_Tor]

1. Can you use Clone to "become native" to another plane? If you grow your clone in a demiplane you create with the Demiplane spell, then kill yourself to become that clone, will you be able to travel to that Demiplane using the Banish spell?

1a. Ignoring the use of Clone for a moment, if a pregnant character is taken to a demiplane to give birth, will the resulting child be a native of that plane? Or is the plane you're native to less of a personal question and more of a question of "what plane your species is native to?"

2. What happens if you cast Clone on someone currently under the effects of Polymorph or Shapechange? What about someone under the effects of a permanent True Polymorph? Does clone replicate scars? Missing limbs? Is the clone created matching the current form in these cases, or in the "natural form" of the creature, whatever that may be? One interpretation allows the Clone spell to make otherwise temporary effects permanent, the other allows the use of Clone to make otherwise permanent effects temporary.

3. Say a character dies, becomes his clone, and has a spell like "Gate" ready to go, so can immediately rejoin the battle. Does the clone have a new spot in the initiative order, as if he's a new character joining the fight?

4. The dead body of a character that becomes his clone can't be restored to life (presumably because his soul goes into the clone): can it rise as undead (assuming the form of undeath doesn't necessitate his soul being available)? For example, if he's killed by a vampire bite and his body is buried, will he rise as a Vampire Spawn? If a necromancer has a clone, could he reanimate his old body as a zombie and use it as a body double?

5. Can you have multiple clones at once, giving you as many lives as you have days to prepare+120? If a high level wizard spends his downtime filling demiplanes with Clones, is he effectively immortal?

6. Can a Simulacrum have a Clone? Does a Simulacrum have a soul? Does a Simulacrum dream of electric Sheep?

[ProsecutorGodot]

1 - A very interesting question, I would say that it could work.
1a - Probably the former, but I'm unaware of any precedence of this.
2 - You can choose an age for the clone but it states nothing about restoring limbs or bodily functions that the original might never have had. For example, if the original had lost the limb as a child then they would have to make the clone at or before the age of them losing said limb.
3 - I would reroll initiative, even before allowing them to cast gate back into the battle.
4 - That is the reason, as the spell states, and I would rule that the body could become host to the negative energies that would be required to create an undead.
5 - There's actually an instance of this scenario in DND lore already, albeit with a twist that doesn't follow the rules of the spell. The Manshoon wars came about when an Archmages clones all came to consciousness at the same time and fought for supremacy. If the spell had functioned as it should, all of the clones would have remained inert and Manshoon would have been able to hop from host body to host body until either he ran out or his soul was otherwise unable.
6 - Simulacrum are listed as illusions, I would say that they don't have souls. I assume any clone the simulacrum makes, if it is able, would be tied to the original rather than the illusion. Clone doesn't actually require you to make a clone of yourself, so you could have the simulacrum create clones of other people.

[Damon_Tor]

7. Clone doesn't seem to require a willing target, and it has no attack roll and doesn't allow a save. Cast using Wish to avoid the need for 1 hour casting time and to haul the person-sized container along with you, you touch the guy and cast Wish and the clone immediately starts developing (in your pocket? on the ground at your feet?) and you run away and bide your time for 120 days. Then you kill the guy and suddenly he wakes up trapped in whatever kooky prison you've invented for him.

For that matter, there don't seem to be any limitations on what you can clone. You could clone the Terrasque if you felt like it. Not sure why you'd do that, but it appears you could if you wanted to.

Come to think of it, that might be a clever way to get your hands on otherwise difficult to acquire body parts. If you need the heart of an Ancient Red Dragon for a ritual, no need to actually kill one, just touch it, clone it, and harvest the heart from the clone.

EDIT: You might actually be able to convince a dragon to go along with this. Have a your high-cha dragon-soul sorcerer explain to the dragon that they'd really rather not have to kill it, and it would be better if they could simply make a copy of it. If you've got a reasonable chance at killing it and it knows it, he should be able to see reason and be persuaded.

[JackPhoenix]

7. Clone doesn't seem to require a willing target, and it has no attack roll and doesn't allow a save. Cast using Wish to avoid the need for 1 hour casting time and to haul the person-sized container along with you, you touch the guy and cast Wish and the clone immediately starts developing (in your pocket? on the ground at your feet?) and you run away and bide your time for 120 days. Then you kill the guy and suddenly he wakes up trapped in whatever kooky prison you've invented for him.

Few problems with this plan: Without the container, the clone dies. It is weird, but it's one of the few spells that can't be emulated with Wish without material component. GFB/BB are another.
Also, the target can just stay dead. Clone doesn't work if the soul isn't willing to return.


For that matter, there don't seem to be any limitations on what you can clone. You could clone the Terrasque if you felt like it. Not sure why you'd do that, but it appears you could if you wanted to.

And good luck fitting Tarrasque or ARD into medium-sized container.

[Lord Vukodlak]

And good luck fitting Tarrasque or ARD into medium-sized container.

You could have a baby Tarrasque.

As to the Wish clone thing. One could reason a wish spell would also create the container.

[Asmotherion]

1. Can you use Clone to "become native" to another plane? If you grow your clone in a demiplane you create with the Demiplane spell, then kill yourself to become that clone, will you be able to travel to that Demiplane using the Banish spell?
1a. Ignoring the use of Clone for a moment, if a pregnant character is taken to a demiplane to give birth, will the resulting child be a native of that plane? Or is the plane you're native to less of a personal question and more of a question of "what plane your species is native to?"

2. What happens if you cast Clone on someone currently under the effects of Polymorph or Shapechange? What about someone under the effects of a permanent True Polymorph? Does clone replicate scars? Missing limbs? Is the clone created matching the current form in these cases, or in the "natural form" of the creature, whatever that may be? One interpretation allows the Clone spell to make otherwise temporary effects permanent, the other allows the use of Clone to make otherwise permanent effects temporary.

3. Say a character dies, becomes his clone, and has a spell like "Gate" ready to go, so can immediately rejoin the battle. Does the clone have a new spot in the initiative order, as if he's a new character joining the fight?

4. The dead body of a character that becomes his clone can't be restored to life (presumably because his soul goes into the clone): can it rise as undead (assuming the form of undeath doesn't necessitate his soul being available)? For example, if he's killed by a vampire bite and his body is buried, will he rise as a Vampire Spawn? If a necromancer has a clone, could he reanimate his old body as a zombie and use it as a body double?

5. Can you have multiple clones at once, giving you as many lives as you have days to prepare+120? If a high level wizard spends his downtime filling demiplanes with Clones, is he effectively immortal?

6. Can a Simulacrum have a Clone? Does a Simulacrum have a soul? Does a Simulacrum dream of electric Sheep?

This are all nice questions. To justify my answear, I'll first introduce my perspective: Spells that are above 6th level are meant to be able to do stuff that defy the boundries of normal spells. Thus, with enough experimentation, a spell like this is meant to give you options like this, as long as you describe the parameters and intention to your DM. He would then roll a percentage die for things that can go wrong (as magic that is not determined by spell effects is meant to have some unpredictable effects), and give you the outcome.

1) I see it more as a matter of the soul being native. However, due to the magic used, the soul might mutate, and give you the desired result (d100 roll, 40 percent chance of success, soul is native to both planes on a natural 100). Same goes for 1a, but with a 20 percent chance.

2) I would see the clone working for the form the original form (as the sample would turn back into the original form when it dies, and cut off tissue is considered dead), with a 20 percent chance of maintaining the mutated form in it's reincarnation, and being a shapechanger between the Original Form and the Changed Form on a Natural 100. Further complications could occure on the survival of such a clone on a ceparate d100 roll, as it is extreamly unstable.

3) Your DM does his thing. Technically speaking, you still need to put on some clothes (that you've carefully prepared to include at least a Spellcasting Focus on), unless you want to go comando into the fight. This might take a turn or two. The most normal way to go is to get you back to life on your Next initiative, and get the battle going.

4) Sure he can. And the Necromancer thing is considered a decent strategy. What animates the dead body is a Negative Energy Spirit, a ceparate entity from the soul. It just needs a dead body to inhabit.

5) You can become Virtually Imortal through clones, yes. That is, not the spell itself, as it would be a hell of a cost, but replicating it through Wish to put multiple Demiplanes can make you have virtually endless lives. It will never actually happen in a campain (or if it happens, you'll be dealing with much more serious threats than death, like the end of the world, including your demiplanes), but it can be a nice End Campain goal to archive for your Mage Character.

6) Good questions. Ask your DM about it. It's too complicated to even give an answear on this one. Simulacrum is complicated, and better left out of forum debates.