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Doran
2007-09-17, 06:40 AM
I know Eugene mention this isn't a walk in Arcardia but that could just be a metaphor. There is a massive mountain in the distance though, is that a clue?

To clarify I know he's on the lawful good ones, but which of the three?

BTW does anyone think Roy is likely to meet the Gods or Soon (and maybe even the demon lords) and get some more info from them?

SPoD
2007-09-17, 06:53 AM
Likely the Lawful Good plane, Mount Celestia, given that there's a giant mountain in the background. (Formerly known as the Seven Heavens in older D&D editions.)

Alfryd
2007-09-17, 06:57 AM
The mountain and Arcadia reference would tentatively suggest an FR-style afterlife topography, but there's no particular guarantee of this.

Surfing HalfOrc
2007-09-17, 07:18 AM
Based on the mountain, he and Eugene are outside of Celestia.

Miko should be popping by in just a few strips...

Stilgar
2007-09-17, 08:00 AM
Miko? What would she do in there? Is there a place for fallen paladin maniacs in celestial planes? :smallconfused:

Surfing HalfOrc
2007-09-17, 08:09 AM
Miko? What would she do in there? Is there a place for fallen paladin maniacs in celestial planes? :smallconfused:

Sure. She's STILL (technically) Lawful Good. See Soon Kim's speech to Miko when she died.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html

Love her or hate her she was Lawful Good all the way to the bitter end.

But this is D&D, and like Roy and Eugene, she might get a do-over.

Think Rich will allow us to vote her back onto the island/back into the house?

Stilgar
2007-09-17, 08:13 AM
Well.. then I'm lucky to be Chaotic. Don't wanna meet her... :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin: :smallbiggrin:

SPoD
2007-09-17, 08:14 AM
Sure. She's STILL (technically) Lawful Good. See Soon Kim's speech to Miko when she died.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0464.html

Love her or hate her she was Lawful Good all the way to the bitter end.

I strongly disagree with your interpretation of that speech in that regard, especially given the implication that Windstriker would visit Miko's final resting place, not live at her final resting place, and that Soon would usher Miko to her destination, which is a separate place from the Celestial Realm.

But I don't want to turn this into a Miko thread. Suffice to say, whether or not she died Lawful Good is open to interpretation and certainly NOT spelled out in the comic.

malakim2099
2007-09-17, 08:20 AM
I strongly disagree with your interpretation of that speech in that regard, especially given the implication that Windstriker would visit Miko's final resting place, not live at her final resting place, and that Soon would usher Miko to her destination, which is a separate place from the Celestial Realm.

But I don't want to turn this into a Miko thread. Suffice to say, whether or not she died Lawful Good is open to interpretation and certainly NOT spelled out in the comic.

To be fair, most non-fallen Paladins probably go rest at a higher "layer" of Celestia than regular LG folks, so it is possible that Miko is just demoted to the layer that Roy/Eugene are stuck on.

Anyone want to take bets on Miko's would-be reaction to meeting Eugene though? No matter what happens, I'm thinking comedy gold. :smallamused:

Surfing HalfOrc
2007-09-17, 08:24 AM
To be fair, most non-fallen Paladins probably go rest at a higher "layer" of Celestia than regular LG folks, so it is possible that Miko is just demoted to the layer that Roy/Eugene are stuck on.

Anyone want to take bets on Miko's would-be reaction to meeting Eugene though? No matter what happens, I'm thinking comedy gold. :smallamused:

Basically what I was going to say...

Celestia is a mountian coming up out of a sea of Holy Water... While Soon Kim and the Celestia Stables are at the TOP of the mountain, Miko will probably end up gutting Celestial Sushi along one of the piers at the bottom.

There is a (De)Motivational poster: Alignment: The Cause of Most Arguments in D&D. (Or something like that.) Meh... My memory sucks.

Found it. My Memory Sucks, but Google knows all!
http://www.llbbl.com/data/RPG-motivational/target176.html

Daibhid C
2007-09-17, 08:49 AM
I believe (as a non-player) the traditional home of Paladins is the Fifth Layer of Mount Celestia, the Platinum Heaven, which is dotted with citadels of the various orders. Miko may well be on Mount Celestia, but not allowed in the Fifth Heaven.

It's also possible that, as a Lawful Good character who strongly valued Law over Goodness, Miko went to Arcadia. If so, she's probably complaining the Harmonium are soft on crime.

Nathander
2007-09-17, 09:02 AM
To be fair, most non-fallen Paladins probably go rest at a higher "layer" of Celestia than regular LG folks, so it is possible that Miko is just demoted to the layer that Roy/Eugene are stuck on.

Anyone want to take bets on Miko's would-be reaction to meeting Eugene though? No matter what happens, I'm thinking comedy gold. :smallamused:

Gotta be honest. I don't think we'll ever see what realm Miko was ushered to in the strip. If we did, I have no doubt in my mind that yet another battle would ensue as to whether or not that's where she should be, and I'm uncertain Rich really wants to let the forums go in that direction again.

Have to admit, though; it would be entertaining to seeing at least one last reaction between Miko and Roy, as well as giving some closure to the matter. Especially if she walks in while Roy and Eugene and bantering.

factotum
2007-09-17, 09:26 AM
Wherever Roy and Eugene are, it's more like the waiting room than actual Heaven. This is made clear at the end of Start of Darkness:


Eugene is unable to pass on to his proper "reward" until the Blood Oath of Vengeance he took against Xykon is fulfilled. Xykon remains among the world of the (un)living, so the Oath is still active. Looks like it passes down the family, too, or Roy wouldn't be stuck where he is.

Alfryd
2007-09-17, 09:29 AM
But I don't want to turn this into a Miko thread.
Don't fight the inevitable.

I've been milling a potential Miko/Roy/Eugene encounter over in my head for a bit, but the main problem is; how, exactly, would Miko meet up with the two of 'em? Presumably, the afterlife's a big place.

As for the ensuing banter... eh. I don't want to think about it too much. Too many things have gone badly wrong in conjunction with Miko's plot involvements that I just sorta flinch at the prospect of future hijinks.

I dunno. Maybe it'll work out, assuming they don't let her near any sharp objects.

It's also possible that, as a Lawful Good character who strongly valued Law over Goodness, Miko went to Arcadia. If so, she's probably complaining the Harmonium are soft on crime.
Actually, Miko didn't strike me as especially lawful at her time of death either. She'd rejected most of the essential qualities that made her lawful in the first place as part of her Fall.

But, yes, there's a quite decent chance Miko's on an entirely different plane from the Greenhilts.

If we did, I have no doubt in my mind that yet another battle would ensue as to whether or not that's where she should be, and I'm uncertain Rich really wants to let the forums go in that direction again.
Rich has, by his own admission, had the entire plot for the strip to it's conclusion pre-scripted for years by now. If Miko's planar destination is of any importance, it'll be known, and forum antics be damned. Damned to Hell.

Solo
2007-09-17, 09:33 AM
I've been milling a potential Miko/Roy/Eugene encounter over in my head for a bit, but the main problem is; how, exactly, would Miko meet up with the two of 'em? Presumably, the afterlife's a big place.

As for the ensuing banter... eh. I don't want to think about it too much. Too many things have gone badly wrong in conjunction with Miko's plot involvements that I just sorta flinch at the prospect of future hijinks.

I have an idea! Miko wakes up oon a cloud with Soon Kim next to her, and he makes some small talk before eventually saying that she should use her time in the afterlife to do som eintrospection and make peace with her enemies and seek forgiveness.

The next panel has Shojo, Eugene, Roy, and Ceila staring at her. Hard.

Alfryd
2007-09-17, 09:40 AM
The next panel has Shojo, Eugene, Roy, and Ceilia staring at her. Hard.
*Flinches*

Wait a second. What's Celia's beef?

Surfing HalfOrc
2007-09-17, 09:46 AM
*Flinches*

Wait a second. What's Celia's beef?

Celia's beef is that Miko tried to throw her BF into prison. Or have him executed.

But it doesn't matter, since Celia isn't in the Celestial Realms. She's at Law School. :smallbiggrin:

Dunamin
2007-09-17, 09:55 AM
Well, out of the three standard Lawful Good planes - Arcadia, Celestia, and Bytopia, I would say Bytopia is unlikely since there doesn't seem to be an opposingly faced world visible in the sky. But then again, it could be the perspective just isn't right to show this.

While all three planes have mountains, based on Roy's overall life, I'd guess on Celestia.

factotum
2007-09-17, 11:13 AM
But it doesn't matter, since Celia isn't in the Celestial Realms. She's at Law School. :smallbiggrin:

Well, in addition, Shojo is Chaotic Good and won't be anywhere near the other three listed anyway.

dakiwiboid
2007-09-17, 12:00 PM
But it doesn't matter, since Celia isn't in the Celestial Realms. She's at Law School. :smallbiggrin:

Exactly. Given the typical first-year schedule, Celia probably just wishes that she's dead.

....
2007-09-17, 02:10 PM
If Miko shows up in this comic ever again I will vomit blood.

And probably stop reading.

Just let the dream die.

Skyserpent
2007-09-17, 02:36 PM
If Miko shows up in this comic ever again I will vomit blood.

And probably stop reading.

Just let the dream die.

extreme much? do you not trust the Giant? be warned: if you leave, it's unlikely anyone will notice.

Kish
2007-09-17, 03:59 PM
Don't fight the inevitable.

I've been milling a potential Miko/Roy/Eugene encounter over in my head for a bit, but the main problem is; how, exactly, would Miko meet up with the two of 'em? Presumably, the afterlife's a big place.
And more to the point, she's in the actual afterlife (whichever one she went to), while Roy and Eugene are stuck on that cloud until the Blood Oath is completed. (Or one of them gets resurrected, of course. Or the plot pulls them away in another direction, just to be thorough.)

David Argall
2007-09-17, 04:52 PM
I strongly disagree with your interpretation of that speech in that regard, especially given the implication that Windstriker would visit Miko's final resting place, not live at her final resting place, and that Soon would usher Miko to her destination, which is a separate place from the Celestial Realm.
I can visit people who live right next door, and on average, I do visit people more often the closer they live to me, so Windstriker visiting means the two locations are different, but not necessarily far apart, quite possibly quite close.
The same applies to Soon's comment. It implies two different destinations, but the closer we put them together, the more reasonable the statement sounds.
Add in that we have adequate D&D proof of each outer plane having multiple destinations and locations within it, and there is no inconsistency here in Miko being LG.


whether or not she died Lawful Good is open to interpretation and certainly NOT spelled out in the comic.
Not spelled out is not at all the same as not LG. In fact, it on average means LG, but not proven beyond doubt as such.

....
2007-09-17, 05:02 PM
extreme much? do you not trust the Giant? be warned: if you leave, it's unlikely anyone will notice.

I trust the Giant to let that woman stay dead (and unseen).

And I wasn't expecting anyone to notice my leaving anymore than they'd notice my vomiting blood. Just saying.

Charles Phipps
2007-09-17, 07:43 PM
Gotta be honest. I don't think we'll ever see what realm Miko was ushered to in the strip. If we did, I have no doubt in my mind that yet another battle would ensue as to whether or not that's where she should be, and I'm uncertain Rich really wants to let the forums go in that direction again.

I doubt he cares.

Surfing HalfOrc
2007-09-17, 08:44 PM
I doubt he cares.

Rich may well care a great deal! The fact that he was able to create a character that can in turn create as much of an emotional reaction from the audience shows how well he is able to write.

I doubt if the strip would be able to attract and keep an audience if Miko had simply ridden up, and politely asked Roy and Co. to come with her all the way down to Azure City to see her boss about a job. Then offered everyone a foot massage. :smallbiggrin:

For those who saw the original "The Hitcher," if C. Thomas Howell's character had somehow saved the girl, would the movie have stuck with you as long?

But if you meant that Rich won't care if someone leaves because they don't like the direction the story went, then you're probably right.

knightsaline
2007-09-17, 09:47 PM
Well, in addition, Shojo is Chaotic Good and won't be anywhere near the other three listed anyway.

I assume that the outer planes of Good are linked for this to work. Shojo could just visit the others in whatever plane they are in.

About windstriker (and to a lesser extent, all paladin mounts). I'd assume that they go to the Beastlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beastlands) when their paladin dies. The paladin gets to visit their mount whenever they like until the mount is summoned back into the service of Good.

newcresty
2007-09-17, 10:03 PM
Don't fight the inevitable.

I've been milling a potential Miko/Roy/Eugene encounter over in my head for a bit, but the main problem is; how, exactly, would Miko meet up with the two of 'em? Presumably, the afterlife's a big place.

Do not taunt the power of plot.

silvadel
2007-09-17, 10:45 PM
So what would happen if Roy's Sister died and ended the entire family line? Would they be stuck there forever?

Aris Katsaris
2007-09-18, 04:53 AM
So what would happen if Roy's Sister died and ended the entire family line? Would they be stuck there forever?

Am guessing Eugene at least would be stuck there until *someone* destroyed Xykon, even if not his own bloodline. At that point the oath would become void, no?

SKarious
2007-09-18, 05:07 AM
Hey, what's Eugene doing in Celestia anyway?Based on what we know of him, he doesn't seem LG at all.

FujinAkari
2007-09-18, 08:16 AM
Hey, what's Eugene doing in Celestia anyway?Based on what we know of him, he doesn't seem LG at all.

Eugene and Roy aren't in Celestia, they are in the heavenly waiting room (Eugene cannot enter heaven until his Blood Oath is completed, and Roy is either stuck under the Blood Oath as well, or hasn't 'checked in for Judgement' yet)