"Becoming" Outsider & Immortality

[ezekielraiden]

There seems to be some disagreement on exactly how this works, so I wanted to ask the forum at large for their discussion. I've seen several posts in Google searches that claim that outsiders, in the generic, don't age or die of old age, and no one seemed to argue (e.g. the Alienist PrC is given as an example in the Immortality Handbook). But others have said there are examples of proper, non-Native subtype Outsiders who do age and die of old age.

So how does the Planar Shepherd's capstone work? If you "become an outsider native to" the plane you picked (in my case, a spin on Syrania to make it more like Mount Celestia as ruled by Bahamut), what happens to you? It seems like a pretty raw deal to become literally just a regular human that can't be rezzed easily...

[Necroticplague]

There's nothing about your type that renders you immortal, except for undead and Construct (which can't die, no longer being alive*).

Outsider type does have benefits to it even if that's false, though. Very good HD, only imperfection is d8. Fighter proficiencies at the most restrictive, darkvision, no need to eat or sleep.

Also, Revive Outsider is cheaper than Raise Dead, so that's actually something in an outsider's favor, not against it.

*=which is why they are 'destroyed' when they run out of HP instead

[Bronk]

There seems to be some disagreement on exactly how this works, so I wanted to ask the forum at large for their discussion. I've seen several posts in Google searches that claim that outsiders, in the generic, don't age or die of old age, and no one seemed to argue (e.g. the Alienist PrC is given as an example in the Immortality Handbook). But others have said there are examples of proper, non-Native subtype Outsiders who do age and die of old age.

So how does the Planar Shepherd's capstone work? If you "become an outsider native to" the plane you picked (in my case, a spin on Syrania to make it more like Mount Celestia as ruled by Bahamut), what happens to you? It seems like a pretty raw deal to become literally just a regular human that can't be rezzed easily...

It's pretty rare for any monsters to have ages listed at all... it's something that wasn't well thought out, and ages and immortalities are usually only spelled out on a case by case basis. It's rare that you see something explicit about it, but outsiders, most magical creatures, and fey are usually implied to be immortal. For one thing, many outsiders are already beings normally considered to be immortal, like angels, devils, and demons. For another, the listing for the 'Native' subtype of outsiders in the Monster Manual / SRD says "These creatures have mortal ancestors...", implying that they themselves aren't mortal.

Evidently, in earlier editions, races like Eladrin (outsiders) and Rakshasa (native outsiders) were described as being able to die of old age, but as far as I can tell, that didn't make it into 3.5.

As for what would happen to your Planar Shepard example, I'd say it would become immortal. My reasoning is that although immortality isn't spelled out in the outsider type, it is stated that you no longer have a soul, instead your body is your soul. Are souls immortal? Well, in DnD, when something dies, their soul goes to the afterlife to become a petitioner (an outsider), and petitioners don't die of old age. They do eventually merge with the plane and/or their deity, but since that's only for petitioners, I'd say that other outsiders don't have that issue.

It would be nice if there was an actual rule for it somewhere, though! You should definitely ask your DM to be sure.

[Ramza00]

http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179.0

[ezekielraiden]

http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1179.0

Yes, this was one of the resources I found, but it doesn't actually mention Planar Shepherd either way, which is frustrating--doubly so because it explicitly mentions several other prestige classes that make you an Outsider. Hence why I made this thread, the stuff I'm looking at either doesn't get mentioned, or people had conflicting notions about it. It's looking more and more like I should just ask my DM when the time comes.

[zergling.exe]

Yes, this was one of the resources I found, but it doesn't actually mention Planar Shepherd either way, which is frustrating--doubly so because it explicitly mentions several other prestige classes that make you an Outsider. Hence why I made this thread, the stuff I'm looking at either doesn't get mentioned, or people had conflicting notions about it. It's looking more and more like I should just ask my DM when the time comes.

It'd probably just be best to ask the DM ASAP. Some DMs don't want PCs with 'immortality' of any stripe, and any attempt to gain it will be shot down. Others might work with you to find another way to gain immortality that's not tied to type or other such thing. Basically, ask your DM about your plans, don't spring stuff on the DM unless it's a combat action in the moment. It makes it easier to help you that way if they know what you want.

[ezekielraiden]

It'd probably just be best to ask the DM ASAP. Some DMs don't want PCs with 'immortality' of any stripe, and any attempt to gain it will be shot down. Others might work with you to find another way to gain immortality that's not tied to type or other such thing. Basically, ask your DM about your plans, don't spring stuff on the DM unless it's a combat action in the moment. It makes it easier to help you that way if they know what you want.

Good advice. Thank you.