How does one become a god? And other god candidates

[WolvesbaneIII]

So, I was wondering how one becomes a god. And if the dark one ascended on his own, then whats to stop someone else from becoming a god? And what other candidates are there in terms of attaining godhood?

Say if xykon were killed, could he become a god, or does one need a certain following to do that? Could he become a god under different circumstances, and what color would he be? black aura?

I doubt xykon would want to become a god anyway, too much work, and no killing people indiscriminately. and boredom later on when the world is made.

[Rrmcklin]

Saying "who are the candidates" implies it's a thing people actively choose, which hasn't been implied.

The Dark One ascended after his death when a million or more goblins cried out and mourned his lose for like a year. Presumably something similar happened with the Elven gods and any other ascended gods there might be.

And under that criteria, no, we don't know anyone living in the comic that comes even close to being a "candidate" for godhood.

[woweedd]

Saying "who are the candidates" implies it's a thing people actively choose, which hasn't been implied.

The Dark One ascended after his death when a million or more goblins cried out and mourned his lose for like a year. Presumably something similar happened with the Elven gods and any other ascended gods there might be.

And under that criteria, no, we don't know anyone living in the comic that comes even close to being a "candidate" for godhood.
I mean...MAYBE Redcloak. Maybe.

[Rrmcklin]

Hmm, fair enough on that front. Though I doubt that'll happen.

[WolvesbaneIII]

Saying "who are the candidates" implies it's a thing people actively choose, which hasn't been implied.

The Dark One ascended after his death when a million or more goblins cried out and mourned his lose for like a year. Presumably something similar happened with the Elven gods and any other ascended gods there might be.

And under that criteria, no, we don't know anyone living in the comic that comes even close to being a "candidate" for godhood.

"a person or thing regarded as suitable for or likely to receive a particular fate, treatment, or position."

I meant in this definition. Not the sort of candidate who ran for political office...But didn't the dark one used to be a politician in life?

Details.

[woweedd]

"a person or thing regarded as suitable for or likely to receive a particular fate, treatment, or position."

I meant in this definition. Not the sort of candidate who ran for political office...But didn't the dark one used to be a politician in life?

Details.
Again, not many people in the comic who fit that description. You need, like, a small nation of people, all of whom worship you. At least.

[WolvesbaneIII]

Again, not many people in the comic who fit that description. You need, like, a small nation of people, all of whom worship you. At least.

Yeah, I figured as much. So, even with xykons infamy, there have been other war lords and wizards who did mass genocide to the point of being well known. Like the soul splice mages. None were gods later on. I take it xykon is not god candidate material.

Then theres banjo and banjhulu. They were worshipped enough to have some slight powers in comic, but that was mostly for laughs, so I won't count them.

[woweedd]

Yeah, I figured as much. So, even with xykons infamy, there have been other war lords and wizards who did mass genocide to the point of being well known. Like the soul splice mages. None were gods later on. I take it xykon is not god candidate material.

Then theres banjo and banjhulu. They were worshipped enough to have some slight powers in comic, but that was mostly for laughs, so I won't count them.
Being a god doesn't require being well-known. It requires being WORSHIPPED. NO one worships Xykon. Fears, yrd, but worships? No.

[Rrmcklin]

Well, it probably requires being worshiped by a large number of people for a prolonged amount of time, which would necessitate being well known. Though the worship itself is the probably the most important factor.

[woweedd]

Well, it probably requires being worshiped by a large number of people for a prolonged amount of time, which would necessitate being well known. Though the worship itself is the probably the most important factor.
Perhaps I should have said it doesn't require "JUST being well-known."

[WolvesbaneIII]

Being a god doesn't require being well-known. It requires being WORSHIPPED. NO one worships Xykon. Fears, yrd, but worships? No.

Hel is a god who isn't worshipped, but she does get souls via other ways.

Perhaps being feared could be as important as worship, or the 2 could go hand in hand ,maybe.

I doubt xykon is well known and feared enough to get the god candidacy, and is certainly not a worshipped person.

[Peelee]

Hel is a god who isn't worshipped, but she does get souls via other ways.

Perhaps being feared could be as important as worship, or the 2 could go hand in hand ,maybe.

I doubt xykon is well known and feared enough to get the god candidacy, and is certainly not a worshipped person.

Hel isn't an ascended god, she was always a god. Not a good comparison.

[Aidan]

Well, it probably requires being worshiped by a large number of people for a prolonged amount of time, which would necessitate being well known. Though the worship itself is the probably the most important factor.

Based on what we're told in SoD about The Dark Ones ascension, compared with the Elven Gods ascension (they gathered followers over several centuries) I believe that either a sizeable amount of mortals worshiping over a longer period or a much larger number of mortals over a shorter period can both lead to ascension.

[Mike Havran]

Redcloak and Giggles. Redcloak is popular because he forged the first widely recognized goblinoid state; he is basically Father of a Nation (sort of). That might make many of the citizens treat him with reverence powerful enough for ascension, provided he, or Gobbotopia, does not get devoured by Snarl somewhere in the future.

Giggles is already worshipped, but only by a small tribe. If the orc tribe expand and spread their faith, Giggles might also ascend (and if Wurkle spreads the theosophy of puppet rivals, Banjo might ascend along with Giggles since they are, like, brothers and rivals at the same time).

[factotum]

Yeah, it basically requires a lot of worshippers for a mortal to ascend to Godhood, whether they're sponsored by an existing pantheon or not. If Elan somehow managed to get Banjo to have a few million devout worshippers he'd probably ascend to Godhood too!

[Mordaedil]

Redcloak ascending to godhood as a counterpart to the Dark One would be fairly badass. Redcloak and the goblins are fairly sympathetically represented and their story is fairly well developed. Seeing it round off as his ascension as a tragic figure to divinity would be really cool.

[woweedd]

Redcloak and Giggles. Redcloak is popular because he forged the first widely recognized goblinoid state; he is basically Father of a Nation (sort of). That might make many of the citizens threat him with reverence powerful enough for ascension, provided he, or Gobbotopia, does not get devoured by Snarl somewhere in the future.

Giggles is already worshipped, but only by a small tribe. If the orc tribe expand and spread their faith, Giggles might also ascend (and if Wurkle spreads the theosophy of puppet rivals, Banjo might ascend along with Giggles since they are, like, brothers and rivals at the same time).
Well, technically, any worship creates a God, just not one capable of...Much of anything. In Divine Ranks, Giggles would be hardly a Demigod. The Dark One is probably more like a very powerful Immediate God, probably well on his way to Greater God status.

Redcloak ascending to godhood as a counterpart to the Dark One would be fairly badass. Redcloak and the goblins are fairly sympathetically represented and their story is fairly well developed. Seeing it round off as his ascension as a tragic figure to divinity would be really cool.
A. Isn't Red Cloak also Evil?
B. Wouldn't him being tragic suggest he suffers a, well, tragic end? Redcloak is a tragic villain, in the Greek sense, a heroic man turned to sin and ultimately killed by the very qualities that made him heroic. In his case, Redcloak's greatest quality is his determination, which drives him to complete his goals no matter what adversity lies in his way...Which is twisted into his Sunk-Cost Fallacy and inability to turn back even when it would have been a good idea. And, like a tragedy, there's a certain amount of inevitability to his defeat. Redcloak's fate has been sealed ever since he killed Right-Eye.

[Rrmcklin]

Recloak ascending to godhood would be terrible. The tragedy of his story is that he's gone through all of these things at this point because stopping would mean admitting he was wrong and it wasn't all worth it. Literally deifying him would completely spit on that message.

Remember that time he looked at his self in the mirror with an eyepatch over his right-eye (so that he looks like Righteye in the mirror) and went "it'll be worth it"? Yeah, this story is not going to end by proving him right.

[Aidan]

Recloak ascending to godhood would be terrible. The tragedy of his story is that he's gone through all of these things at this point because stopping would mean admitting he was wrong and it wasn't all worth it. Literally deifying him would completely spit on that message.

Remember that time he looked at his self in the mirror with an eyepatch over his right-eye (so that he looks like Righteye in the mirror) and went "it'll be worth it"? Yeah, this story is not going to end by proving him right.

In addition to that, based on our previous statements regarding the logistics of becoming a God, it would either require him to be worshiped for decades, maybe centuries, by the people of Gobbtopia or to somehow do it like the Dark One and cause enough Genocide to make it.

My guess is that Redcloaks story will end with his realization that this all was not truly worth it, not with an ascension.

[DaggerPen]

I kind of like the idea that part of negotiations with TDO will involve him sponsoring a new Good and a new Neutral goblin-friendly purple quiddity deity in order to reduce the disproportionate impact he personally would have due to having the personal voting power of an entire pantheon, but still preserving the purple pantheon as a powerful advocate for goblins. However, I have zero idea who the qualifying candidates would be, and don't consider it a particularly likely outcome.

[D.One]

One might be loved by moviegoers for over 50 years (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) to become a god...

[Dr.Zero]

My personal headcanon, based on the fact that beliefs shape everything in OOTSverse (according to Thor, at least), is that:

a) you need people believing you have ascended to godhood (like in old myths we have heroes took by gods after their deaths and becoming gods/demigods/stars/constellations) or you are a god to start with

this implies

a.1) admirers are not enough, people being grateful for what you've done are not enough, you need people believing you are a god; Giggles probaly is already some kind of god.

b) your powers depend on the numbers of believers/influx (whatever it means) of souls; so, TDO's power become great very quickly because he had a great number of followers and a steady influx of souls (thanks to all people killing the goblins); Giggles, on the other hand, is a particle in the universe, because he is worshipped (maybe, if he is not a forgotten deity already) by a bunch of people.

c) (and this is tricky) that no one really ascends to godhood. Things depends on beliefs, so TDO? He is
a projection of what his worhisppers believe him to be and have been in life. Giggles? Giggles is a puppet, so he cannot "ascend", but if enough people believe in him, a God will be created out of their beliefs, with the shape of Giggles, who behaves as his follower believe Giggles might behave, and who thinks he is really Giggles, because that is what the shared beliefs of enough people managed to do.

(Ok, all this explanation to give a chance to a puppet to become a God :smallbiggrin:)

[martianmister]

You need to be popular, popular like a celebrated head of state, or a great communicator. But you probably won't need brains or knowledge to get that. Having right cohorts, being good at sports, and knowing the slang is a must.

[Pax_Chi]

The Dark One ascended after his death when a million or more goblins cried out and mourned his lose for like a year. Presumably something similar happened with the Elven gods and any other ascended gods there might be.


I don't think the Elven gods ascended in the same way. It sounds like the Elven and Dwarven gods ascended to godhood with the aid of an existing pantheon and thus have that pantheon's aura color. Otherwise the Elven and Dwarven gods would have had their own unique colors as well, and the Dark One's new Fourth Color wouldn't be such a unique deal.

[keybounce]

One might be loved by moviegoers for over 50 years (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0301.html) to become a god...

DARN, it's the same yellow, isn't it?

[woweedd]

DARN, it's the same yellow, isn't it?

And red/blue are also there...

[WolvesbaneIII]

Hel isn't an ascended god, she was always a god. Not a good comparison.

That wasn't really the point. Hel doesn't need worshippers per say to remain a god, so much as she needs souls to remain a god or something along those lines.

It was more of a line delivered to state an objective quality on the nature of gods.

[The Pilgrim]

I think there are no specific RAW rules in D&D to do it (pre-4th Edition, at least). But general convention tends to give four basic ways to it (based on the backstory of existing Gods):

1) Be ascended to Godhood by an existing God. He/She provides you with the divine essence.
2) Kill a God, stealing it's divine essence.
3) Mass Genocide to generate your own divine essence.
4) Achieve Mass Whorsip to generate your own divine essence.

In OOTS terms, it seems that only by the two latter you would get you your own qiddity. By the first two you would just get the same qiddity you stole or were granted.

Probably the ascended Elves and Dvalin got a little push by one of the existing pantheons (Method 1 + 4), so inherited their qiddity.

The short lifespan of all the words in the past of OOTS probably prevented anyone from gathering enough power to perform the three others. Until The Dark One achieved it by Method 3 (according to the backstory we have been provided so far).

Could Xykon become a God? Yep. If he becomes powerful enougn to pull Method 2, or devises a way to kill enough people and channel the enegry to pull 3. But I do not see Xykon capable of caring about a portfolio and developing a cult of whorsippers thereafter, so his Godhood would probably be a short one.

Redcloak is in a good position to pull a 1+4 and join the Dark One's pantheon as a sidekick/secondary God.

Malack could have pulled a 1+3+4, if Nale had not put an end to his scheme (God writes straight with crooked lines), and if the OOTS world expiry date would have given him enough time (the OOTS world would already have expired, if not by the Scribblers).

[Peelee]

That wasn't really the point. Hel doesn't need worshippers per say to remain a god, so much as she needs souls to remain a god or something along those lines.

It was more of a line delivered to state an objective quality on the nature of gods.

But you immediately segued from that into a "so maybe Xykon doesn't need to be worshipped to be a god candidate." Which doesn't follow, because Hel was never mortal.

[Rrmcklin]

That wasn't really the point. Hel doesn't need worshippers per say to remain a god, so much as she needs souls to remain a god or something along those lines.

It was more of a line delivered to state an objective quality on the nature of gods.

Hel needs souls to gain power, because that's what the gods power themselves with, but there has been no indication Hel will just stop being a god and become mortal or something like that without souls. (She might die, since apparently the gods need the mortals to survive for some reason, but that's not what you seem to be arguing.)


I don't think the Elven gods ascended in the same way. It sounds like the Elven and Dwarven gods ascended to godhood with the aid of an existing pantheon and thus have that pantheon's aura color. Otherwise the Elven and Dwarven gods would have had their own unique colors as well, and the Dark One's new Fourth Color wouldn't be such a unique deal.

Something is different about the Dark One, but it doesn't sound like it was his actual ascension. The gods weren't surprised when he ascended because other mortals (the eleven gods) had already done so. If the process was completely different that wouldn't make sense.

[Patram]

What about Durkon? Once the Order saves the multiverse, could he potentially ascend into the Northern Pantheon? Thor could certainly put in a good word for him, though I don't know if that really means much. Now I'm not saying this WILL happen (more likely would probably be his becoming the High Priest of Thor), I'm just wondering if it COULD.

[WolvesbaneIII]

But you immediately segued from that into a "so maybe Xykon doesn't need to be worshipped to be a god candidate." Which doesn't follow, because Hel was never mortal.

That was a misunderstanding. I was talking about several things at once, trying to stir the conversation.

WE don't know all the details about whether gods stop being gods or just die if they don't have any souls coming in.

I'm sorry I wasn't being clear earlier.

[Peelee]

That was a misunderstanding. I was talking about several things at once, trying to stir the conversation.

WE don't know all the details about whether gods stop being gods or just die if they don't have any souls coming in.

I'm sorry I wasn't being clear earlier.

Oh, I getcha now. Yeah, i thought it was one continuous train of though. My bad.

[Wanjigi]

Lol! I was asked such a question with my kid. Funny (https://bitsquestions.com/family-questions-to-ask-your-parents-siblings/) and hilarious

[WolvesbaneIII]

A bit off topic, but I had a dream about this web comic where this was actually loki tricking vampire durkon into thinking he was thor, and was going to use this series of events and the information provided to make the vampire try to become the high priest of the dark one.

They used a spell to revive the vampire from ash, and the vampire spirit while still evil was like a true vampire version of durkon.

And when I say evil durkon, I mean he's quite influenced by the memory over flow from earlier, but does good when possible, and only does evil when absolutely necesary, for the "greater good" much to real durkons dismay.

I guess they needed a vampire priest to save the world after all. :wink:


As to how one becomes a god, the dark one seemingly did it all on his own, so was he worshipped as living goblin? It can't be as easy as that, otherwise all worshipped people would become gods. banjo and other puppets not withstanding.

[Pax_Chi]

Something is different about the Dark One, but it doesn't sound like it was his actual ascension. The gods weren't surprised when he ascended because other mortals (the eleven gods) had already done so. If the process was completely different that wouldn't make sense.

Unless I mis-read something, it looks like what was different IS his ascension, specifically that he ascended without the aid of another god. It seems like in this setting, existing gods work to ascend other deities, who then take on the color of the gods that elevated them. Otherwise the Elven and Dwarven gods would also have their own unique color, rather than the color of an existing pantheon.

That suggests that the Dark One somehow tapped into a unique color on his own, or something other than the gods elevated him. That second bit would be especially troubling.