Shadow archer optimization?

[Pandyman]

So in my next campaign I wanted to play like a shadow bowman, and i was trying to think of the best way to handle this. I'm not 100% fully invested in any idea cause i'm not sure how i want to do it yet. I know that my current build isn't super optimal for combat, but i really like the concept.

The rough idea I'm thinking of is Ranger 5(Gloom Stalker)/Shadow Sorcerer 15, Ranger 5/Rogue 1/Sorcerer 14, or something like that would be super cool. The primary reason i was thinking ranger was for dread ambusher, umbral sight, and pass without trace for the scouting at night boosts.

Any thoughts on better class combos or anything outside of the sharpshooter feat, which i'm definitely taking, i'd love to hear.

[Crgaston]

As a base, think about working towards Greater Invisibility + Blink. Blink isn’t concentration so you can have both up at the same time. With Blink, half the rounds that the enemy might use to attack you, cast an AOE, debuff or whatever, you’re not even on this plane of existence except for when you’re attacking. And when you ARE on the Prime Matery, you’re freaking Invisible. Like, Greatly.

Needs 7 levels of Sorcerer, Wizard, or Fey Warlock to get both. That leaves you 2 levels of Rogue for Cunning Action and 11 levels of Gloomstalker or Fighter for your DPR.

[Malifice]

Gloom Stalker ranger is a must.

Shadow sorcerer is good also, but the Cha 13 requirement is a little annoying.

[Pandyman]

As a base, think about working towards Greater Invisibility + Blink. Blink isn’t concentration so you can have both up at the same time. With Blink, half the rounds that the enemy might use to attack you, cast an AOE, debuff or whatever, you’re not even on this plane of existence except for when you’re attacking. And when you ARE on the Prime Matery, you’re freaking Invisible. Like, Greatly.

Needs 7 levels of Sorcerer, Wizard, or Fey Warlock to get both. That leaves you 2 levels of Rogue for Cunning Action and 11 levels of Gloomstalker or Fighter for your DPR.

This was almost the exact reason i wanted to go sorcerer, but i was also thinking about things like haste for when i'm considered invisible against creatures with dark vision due to Gloomstalker. I was just up in the air on whether the level 11 ability was better than getting the extra 6-7 levels of sorcerer.

[MeeposFire]

Well it is not traditional for ranged builds but how about shadow monk? It gets some of the nifty abilities you may want including a bonus action teleport in shadows which also gives advantage (though I cannot recall for sure whether it applies to ranged attacks or not but I think it does) on an attack. It will also give you some decent defensive options and will not cause issues with multiclassing since it requires dex and wis. Remember also while some monk abilities are lost while wearing armor that is not true for many abilities especially ones from the subclasses.

[Galithar]

Half-elf
Warlock Hexblade Pact of Blade 5 (Improved Pact Weapon to allow Pact Heavy Crossbow so you can use Cha for attacks, Eldritch Smite for burst damage, Thirsting Blade for second attack)
Rogue Mastermind 3 2d6 sneak attack amd 30 ft help action or 5 for +1d6 on sneak attack and uncanny dodge
Shadow Sorcerer 10 or 12 depending on what's left. Your source of darkness that you can see through as long as you cast with sorcery points, which you will be.

Feats: Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert
CE when you hit Warlock 4 Sharpshooter at sorcerer 4. Elven accuracy +1 CHA with your next ASI, then CHA 20. Final ASI is unlikely to be hit, but is open to whatever.
Advantage on most attacks through being unseen. Triggers sneak attack regardless of allies position.
Sorcerer will pick up haste to give yourself another extra attack.
Improved Pact Weapon guarantees a +1 weapon and allows ranged smiting as well as using your CHA for attack and damage rolls.
Medium armor profecincy allows a Dex of 14 and still maintain decent AC. (17 with no magic items)

First round set-up for big fight is Darkness on yourself, move away from party to avoid hindering allies, quicken haste (if DM allows casting this with having used sorcery points for darkness, if they don't, which most probably won't set up is slightly slower)
Attack twice (3 if haste was allowed)
1d10 + 2(3)d6 + 5
1d10 + 5
Possible 1d10 + 5
All of which allow for the possibility of +10 from sharpshooter or an Eldritch Smite for 2d8 to 7d8 force damage AND knocking up to huge creatures prone.
Bonus action (if haste not Quickened) for a 30 ft help action.
Second round is a repeat, quickening spells (including cantrips) as needed to help)

Things like Hexblade curse can add more damage. +Proficiency on damage and crit on 19.

Nova damage at 20 is
3d10+15+30+18+2d6+16d8+10d6+40
Three attacks + CHA mod + Sharpshooter + Proficiency + Sneak attack + 3 smites (level 4, 5, 5) + Quickened Disentegrate

Average of 224.5

Average sustained damage is much lower but passable.
3d10+45+2d6 with haste or
2d10+30+2d6 without

Average 68.5
Or 48


Rogue levels really aren't needed and could easily be put off until late. Rogue does give good bonus actions, especially Mastermind allowing the ranged help for a minor buff to your party.


Disclaimer: Never used the build, just wanted to see if I could come up with a good Shadow Archer build on the spot, feedback would be appreciated!


EDIT: Fighter Champion 3 instead of Rogue would give Action Surge increasing your once per long rest Nova damage as well as giving you crits on 19&20 against all targets instead of just one cursed with Hexblade curse. Good if you want to burst, possibly bad if you're going for a higher DPR then Nova.

Also note you probably don't want to smite multiple times on the same target as after you knock it prone you lose advantage from being unseen.

If you're not planning on creating your own magical Darkness then Gloomstalker becomes a contender. A Gloomstalker build would probably have higher DPR but I'm not sure how the Nova would be affected. Definitely would keep it away from any build using Warlock or Sorcerer as it starts getting Mad (unless it's a Warlock dip exclusively for Devil's Sight)

[Galithar]

Well it is not traditional for ranged builds but how about shadow monk? It gets some of the nifty abilities you may want including a bonus action teleport in shadows which also gives advantage (though I cannot recall for sure whether it applies to ranged attacks or not but I think it does) on an attack. It will also give you some decent defensive options and will not cause issues with multiclassing since it requires dex and wis. Remember also while some monk abilities are lost while wearing armor that is not true for many abilities especially ones from the subclasses.

You lose most of the good Monk features of you use armor. Kensei would be better archetype from a Monk dip for an Archer. 3 levels for Kensei's shot to give all ranged attacks deal 1d4 extra damage.
Shadow Monk doesn't get the ability to see through their own magical darkness, so you want that ability from the Shadow Sorcerer.
Though of course this could be paired with a Warlock dip for Devil's Sight.

... Maybe ignore what I said about Kensei lol Shadow Monk, Warlock 2 could work. Getting to late for me to try to break the build down though. Maybe tomorrow :P

[Vogie]

What I would do is Arcane Archer Fighter 3, Archfey Blade Warlock 7, then dive into Rogue or gloom stalker ranger (if you have the WIS) if desired.

The Arcane Archer & Warlock will each give you 2 slots/shots that refresh on short/long rest.
Arcane Archer gives you smites that don't touch your spell slots, and also emulate certain spells. If you're attacking a single target, being able to use your shadow arrow in lieu of casting darkness or greater invisibility using a spell slot. On top, of course, over the archery fighting style and Action Surges
Warlock gives you the ability to summon a +1 Bow using Improved Pact Weapon, use Eldritch Smite to turn your spell slots into knockdown smites, and augment your Hex spell with Relentless Hex to give you a bonus action teleports.
Archfey Patron gives you a Invisibility + Teleport as your level 6 feature, in addition to giving Blink at 5 and Greater Invisibility at 7. If UA is allowed, you can use the Moon Bow invocation to eschew arrows completely.


If you roll absurdly well, and won't need much by way of ASIs, you could even finish the build with Gloom Stalker Ranger 3 and Rogue 7 (Either Assassin, Thief, or Scout) for a multi-attacking evasive monster.

[Damon_Tor]

Swords Bards make great archers. They're full casters and can steal any other classes spells at 10 and 15. But they still have the extra attack feature, and their Blade Flourish feature is effectively the same as the Battlemaster's maneuvers. Their ability to steal other classes' spells at level 10 combined with their full-caster progression means that they can get access to some ranger and paladin spells before those classes get them, perhaps most importantly, Swift Quiver. Swift Quiver means that at level 10, an archer bard will be making 4 attacks per round. Dip two levels into fighter for Action Surge and three levels into Ranger for Gloom Stalker and now you're making 8 attacks on your first round of combat at level 15. Now dip 3 levels of rogue for Assassin; now you're making 8 attacks on your first round of combat and all of them crit as long as you win initiative and the enemy is surprised. That's a room full of dead things (or one big dead thing) right off the bat. Now everyone else is just cleanup duty.

[Corran]

Eh, I don't think these classes mess well. But I can see some nice flavor in giving a creepy shadowy animal companion (ie shadow sorcerer's hound) to a creepy shadowy ranger. So, if that is (part of) the flavor you are aiming for, then I can see how 6 levels of shadow sorcerer can be appealing. Now, the gloom stalker gets greater invisibility at level 13 if I am not mistaken (which is a great spell for a sharpshooter archer). But if you want the hound a lot earlier than in high level play, then taking one more sorcerer level (ie sorcerer 7) might be the best way to go about it. Theoretically, gloom stalker 14/ shadow sorc 6 is a good split (because it allows the hound, greater invisibility and hide as a bonus action), but judging things from a level 20 perspective is not a great idea. Hence, I would aim for something like ranger 5/ sorcerer 7 at character level 12. Meaning that you would get this spell 1 level sooner than a singleclass gloomstalker would, but this way you are missing on some ranger features that would make your sharpshooting more powerful (such as the 11 level gloom stalker feature), among other useful things like 3rd level ranger spells and wisdom save proficiency. To make the most of a bad situation, you should look into getting sorcerer spells that would give you utility that fits an archer (and secondarily a scout). Spells like expeditious retreat, spider climb, darkness (which is a given cause shadow origin), greater invisibility, misty step, dimension door, invisibility, featherfall.... stuff like that, which focus on mobility even if it is through granting you unconventional ways of movement, and which will make you a better scout and better at assuming an advantageous/safe position from where you will shoot your desired target. Beyond level 7 in sorcerer, I don't see many reasons that would make me advance further in that class. Sure there are some good spells that don't really depend on having a good charisma score (like animated objects, reverse gravity, etherealness, teleport, etc), but there are probably better things to be found in ranger (saying that while being far from certain). Two level of rogue (mainly for cunning action - hide) might be useful, depending on how your DM rules on stealth for invisible creatures (seeing how vanish would either be substancially delayed or more likely skipped entirely).

[Pandyman]

I didn't expect so much great advice and different class combos. I'll try to explain my thought process to sorta get the basic reasoning behind my build. It's true that Gloomstalker 5/rogue 1/sorcerer 14 probably isn't the best damage-wise there's a lot of shadowy thematic stuff i really like about it.

My character after lvl 6+ will average 2x(1d10+4+10)+1d6 a round or around 42.5 damage until around level and then around 11-13+ when i'll be able to quicken haste a few times a day to do around 3x(1d10+5+10)+1d6 a round or around 65 damage a round. Around then i'll also be able to quicken fireball or a few other spells for around 100+ damage assuming there are more than 2 enemies I fall a bit short of a crossbow expert/sharpshooter fighter , they do 4x(1d6+5+10) or around 74 damage a round. My damage kinda lags behind the optimal hand-crossbow crossbow expert build, but i think most longbow builds do fall behind in damage in exchange for their range.

Corran kinda hit the nail on the head, the primary function of going sorcerer wasn't a combat boost, but maybe i'm sacrificing too much for the shadow theme. The big thing i was looking at was the flavor that the shadow sorcerer class features added: the super long range dark vision so i can sit 150ft away with a bow at night(giving almost permanent advantage in nighttime encounters because that's almost 3x the distance of most people's darkvision), the shadow hound is cool, the 120ft shadow step at will is pretty dope (although compared to the shadow monk i don't get it until level 20, but it's double the distance), and from the ranger side i get all the cool survival aspects along with pass without trace(the best pre-invisibility shadowy stealth spell). The rogue dip is primarily for the expertise for stealth, since i see a high stealth as a key component of the build. The second expertise might be used on survival or something like that.


Well it is not traditional for ranged builds but how about shadow monk? It gets some of the nifty abilities you may want including a bonus action teleport in shadows which also gives advantage (though I cannot recall for sure whether it applies to ranged attacks or not but I think it does) on an attack. It will also give you some decent defensive options and will not cause issues with multiclassing since it requires dex and wis. Remember also while some monk abilities are lost while wearing armor that is not true for many abilities especially ones from the subclasses.

Shadow monk could be sweet, it's giving me a mish-mash of why i'm going ranger/sorcerer: the darkvision, shadowstep, and it'd make me a bit faster. Dipping ranger, rogue, and/or warlock (primarily for Devil's sight) could make this a serious contender for my current build path. I'll have to look into it a little more to be sure. Something like Shadow-monk 6/Warlock 2/Revised Ranger 1/Rogue 11 could be decent if my dm lets me dip revised ranger for the frontloaded ranger flavor. There's a lot of different ways i could take this though to get something similar to what i want earlier.


Half-elf
Warlock Hexblade Pact of Blade 5 (Improved Pact Weapon to allow Pact Heavy Crossbow so you can use Cha for attacks, Eldritch Smite for burst damage, Thirsting Blade for second attack)
Rogue Mastermind 3 2d6 sneak attack amd 30 ft help action or 5 for +1d6 on sneak attack and uncanny dodge
Shadow Sorcerer 10 or 12 depending on what's left. Your source of darkness that you can see through as long as you cast with sorcery points, which you will be.

Feats: Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert
CE when you hit Warlock 4 Sharpshooter at sorcerer 4. Elven accuracy +1 CHA with your next ASI, then CHA 20. Final ASI is unlikely to be hit, but is open to whatever.
Advantage on most attacks through being unseen. Triggers sneak attack regardless of allies position.
Sorcerer will pick up haste to give yourself another extra attack.
Improved Pact Weapon guarantees a +1 weapon and allows ranged smiting as well as using your CHA for attack and damage rolls.
Medium armor profecincy allows a Dex of 14 and still maintain decent AC. (17 with no magic items)

First round set-up for big fight is Darkness on yourself, move away from party to avoid hindering allies, quicken haste (if DM allows casting this with having used sorcery points for darkness, if they don't, which most probably won't set up is slightly slower)
Attack twice (3 if haste was allowed)
1d10 + 2(3)d6 + 5
1d10 + 5
Possible 1d10 + 5
All of which allow for the possibility of +10 from sharpshooter or an Eldritch Smite for 2d8 to 7d8 force damage AND knocking up to huge creatures prone.
Bonus action (if haste not Quickened) for a 30 ft help action.
Second round is a repeat, quickening spells (including cantrips) as needed to help)

Things like Hexblade curse can add more damage. +Proficiency on damage and crit on 19.

Nova damage at 20 is
3d10+15+30+18+2d6+16d8+10d6+40
Three attacks + CHA mod + Sharpshooter + Proficiency + Sneak attack + 3 smites (level 4, 5, 5) + Quickened Disentegrate

Average of 224.5

Average sustained damage is much lower but passable.
3d10+45+2d6 with haste or
2d10+30+2d6 without

Average 68.5
Or 48


Rogue levels really aren't needed and could easily be put off until late. Rogue does give good bonus actions, especially Mastermind allowing the ranged help for a minor buff to your party.


Disclaimer: Never used the build, just wanted to see if I could come up with a good Shadow Archer build on the spot, feedback would be appreciated!


EDIT: Fighter Champion 3 instead of Rogue would give Action Surge increasing your once per long rest Nova damage as well as giving you crits on 19&20 against all targets instead of just one cursed with Hexblade curse. Good if you want to burst, possibly bad if you're going for a higher DPR then Nova.

Also note you probably don't want to smite multiple times on the same target as after you knock it prone you lose advantage from being unseen.

If you're not planning on creating your own magical Darkness then Gloomstalker becomes a contender. A Gloomstalker build would probably have higher DPR but I'm not sure how the Nova would be affected. Definitely would keep it away from any build using Warlock or Sorcerer as it starts getting Mad (unless it's a Warlock dip exclusively for Devil's Sight)

This is definitely much better in the damage department and comes online much quicker than mine does, it could even be slightly altered to get some of the stuff i'm trying to get out of ranger without hurting the burst by much. Mine doesn't even come close until 20ish when i can abuse simulacrum due to the extra sorcerer levels, and even then that requires my campaign to hit 19-20 which probably won't happen. This will make two builds that i'll have to look more into. This and the monk version both hit most of my thematic marks before my ranger/sorcerer version does, but if i can get both the flavor and the damage it'd be silly not to.


You lose most of the good Monk features of you use armor. Kensei would be better archetype from a Monk dip for an Archer. 3 levels for Kensei's shot to give all ranged attacks deal 1d4 extra damage.
Shadow Monk doesn't get the ability to see through their own magical darkness, so you want that ability from the Shadow Sorcerer.
Though of course this could be paired with a Warlock dip for Devil's Sight.

... Maybe ignore what I said about Kensei lol Shadow Monk, Warlock 2 could work. Getting to late for me to try to break the build down though. Maybe tomorrow :P

Yeah shadow monk and warlock are both looking like great options to consider over sticking to ranger/shadow sorcerer.


What I would do is Arcane Archer Fighter 3, Archfey Blade Warlock 7, then dive into Rogue or gloom stalker ranger (if you have the WIS) if desired.

The Arcane Archer & Warlock will each give you 2 slots/shots that refresh on short/long rest.
Arcane Archer gives you smites that don't touch your spell slots, and also emulate certain spells. If you're attacking a single target, being able to use your shadow arrow in lieu of casting darkness or greater invisibility using a spell slot. On top, of course, over the archery fighting style and Action Surges
Warlock gives you the ability to summon a +1 Bow using Improved Pact Weapon, use Eldritch Smite to turn your spell slots into knockdown smites, and augment your Hex spell with Relentless Hex to give you a bonus action teleports.
Archfey Patron gives you a Invisibility + Teleport as your level 6 feature, in addition to giving Blink at 5 and Greater Invisibility at 7. If UA is allowed, you can use the Moon Bow invocation to eschew arrows completely.


If you roll absurdly well, and won't need much by way of ASIs, you could even finish the build with Gloom Stalker Ranger 3 and Rogue 7 (Either Assassin, Thief, or Scout) for a multi-attacking evasive monster.
Yeah this is making it sound like going Warlock might help me hit a lot of the flavor i'm wanting without sacrificing damage like my build does, and making ranger at most a dip for the build. I hadn't really considered Arcane archer though, it definitely looks worth looking into.


Swords Bards make great archers. They're full casters and can steal any other classes spells at 10 and 15. But they still have the extra attack feature, and their Blade Flourish feature is effectively the same as the Battlemaster's maneuvers. Their ability to steal other classes' spells at level 10 combined with their full-caster progression means that they can get access to some ranger and paladin spells before those classes get them, perhaps most importantly, Swift Quiver. Swift Quiver means that at level 10, an archer bard will be making 4 attacks per round. Dip two levels into fighter for Action Surge and three levels into Ranger for Gloom Stalker and now you're making 8 attacks on your first round of combat at level 15. Now dip 3 levels of rogue for Assassin; now you're making 8 attacks on your first round of combat and all of them crit as long as you win initiative and the enemy is surprised. That's a room full of dead things (or one big dead thing) right off the bat. Now everyone else is just cleanup duty.
This is some spicy burst that might be worth looking into, especially with the option of still being a fullcaster which was a large reason for going 14 levels sorcerer to begin with.


Eh, I don't think these classes mess well. But I can see some nice flavor in giving a creepy shadowy animal companion (ie shadow sorcerer's hound) to a creepy shadowy ranger. So, if that is (part of) the flavor you are aiming for, then I can see how 6 levels of shadow sorcerer can be appealing. Now, the gloom stalker gets greater invisibility at level 13 if I am not mistaken (which is a great spell for a sharpshooter archer). But if you want the hound a lot earlier than in high level play, then taking one more sorcerer level (ie sorcerer 7) might be the best way to go about it. Theoretically, gloom stalker 14/ shadow sorc 6 is a good split (because it allows the hound, greater invisibility and hide as a bonus action), but judging things from a level 20 perspective is not a great idea. Hence, I would aim for something like ranger 5/ sorcerer 7 at character level 12. Meaning that you would get this spell 1 level sooner than a singleclass gloomstalker would, but this way you are missing on some ranger features that would make your sharpshooting more powerful (such as the 11 level gloom stalker feature), among other useful things like 3rd level ranger spells and wisdom save proficiency. To make the most of a bad situation, you should look into getting sorcerer spells that would give you utility that fits an archer (and secondarily a scout). Spells like expeditious retreat, spider climb, darkness (which is a given cause shadow origin), greater invisibility, misty step, dimension door, invisibility, featherfall.... stuff like that, which focus on mobility even if it is through granting you unconventional ways of movement, and which will make you a better scout and better at assuming an advantageous/safe position from where you will shoot your desired target. Beyond level 7 in sorcerer, I don't see many reasons that would make me advance further in that class. Sure there are some good spells that don't really depend on having a good charisma score (like animated objects, reverse gravity, etherealness, teleport, etc), but there are probably better things to be found in ranger (saying that while being far from certain). Two level of rogue (mainly for cunning action - hide) might be useful, depending on how your DM rules on stealth for invisible creatures (seeing how vanish would either be substancially delayed or more likely skipped entirely).
Yeah, when it comes to optimization you're right, the classes don't particularly mesh well. It's looking like warlock might be the best option after Xanathars. I just saw the long range darkvision and the additional shadow stuff and kinda gushed at the flavor of it. My character basically ends up lagging behind an optimized character in terms of damage and versatility. But with such long range darkvision you get to sit 150ft back and pelt people with arrows, which is almost 3x further than most people can see in the dark so you get advantage. When people with darkvision come looking for you you're basically invisible because of gloom stalker's ability, and with the ability to quicken spells you don't waste your first turn's action casting darkness, haste, etc that all gets shoved into the bonus action just for going sorcerer.

[Damon_Tor]

This is some spicy burst that might be worth looking into, especially with the option of still being a fullcaster which was a large reason for going 14 levels sorcerer to begin with.

Plus Assassin and Gloomstalker are full of stealthy goodies, including foiling darkvision and making disguises to hide in plain sight, and the bard has access to most of the stealth spells you'd want. I'll note Greater Invisibility is somewhat overrated this edition, in terms of combat application. I prefer the Blindness spell: it's lower level and doesn't require your concentration, and your whole team benefits from it.

[MeeposFire]

You lose most of the good Monk features of you use armor. Kensei would be better archetype from a Monk dip for an Archer. 3 levels for Kensei's shot to give all ranged attacks deal 1d4 extra damage.
Shadow Monk doesn't get the ability to see through their own magical darkness, so you want that ability from the Shadow Sorcerer.
Though of course this could be paired with a Warlock dip for Devil's Sight.

... Maybe ignore what I said about Kensei lol Shadow Monk, Warlock 2 could work. Getting to late for me to try to break the build down though. Maybe tomorrow :P

Which feature do you really need to keep? You will be losing martial arts (not needed this is a ranged concept), unarmored (he is already a ranger so he will have armor so it is not needed), and the extra speed which would have been nice but I think it is not needed in this case.

Further if you do pick up monk and you have good dex and wisdom you could choose to not use armor if you like anyway.