Building the ultimate hunter.

[Dudewithknives]

With the official release of the Eberron races I can now finally make a character I have wanted to for 2 years. The sleepless hunter. A bounty hunter who simply never stops, never sleeps, and can’t be reasoned with. Brutally lawful. The question is what class/subclass?

Assume no multiclassing
Normal point buy rules
Bonus feat at 1st level
MUST be a warforged.
Would be nice to be weapon sufficient such as blade pact, or monk or Eldritch Knight.
Prefer not to be cha. Based, I was party face the last 2 campaigns.

I am thinking:

1. open hand monk envoy. No weapon no armor just ready to go 24/7.

2. Eldritch Knight, bonded weapon solves the effeciency issue, spells just for buffs. Great combat wise but nothing particularly hunter about it.

3. Ranger of some kind, fits the theme but the class is not too impressive to me.

Any ideas or nifty tricks?

[Galithar]

Are you looking to have any sneaking ability?
Weapon preference? Ranged/melee?
Optimized or fun?
DPR or Nova?

[Dudewithknives]

Are you looking to have any sneaking ability?
Weapon preference? Ranged/melee?
Optimized or fun?
DPR or Nova?

No weapon preference really. But ability to finish off with subdual is nice.
Sneaking, but does not have to be through the roof.
Not optimized for combat but most effective ability to hunt someone or something.
Combat is a high secondary consideration, but primary focus is as a bloodhound.

Primary needs:

1. Tracking and speed
2. Stopping them from escaping
3. Combat ability
4. Skills


If you played 3.5 thing the bloodhound prestige class

[GlenSmash!]

While the warforged won't suffer Exhaustion from lack of long rests, class abilities will still need to be recharged.

If going for a short rest chassis monk and fighter are fine. if going for no rests at all, Rogue. Inquisitive seems a good fit.

[Dudewithknives]

While the warforged won't suffer Exhaustion from lack of long rests, class abilities will still need to be recharged.

If going for a short rest chassis monk and fighter are fine. if going for no rests at all, Rogue. Inquisitive seems a good fit.

Yeah, inquisitive does sound really good. I have played a rogue level 1 to 15 twice so I can handle that easy.

[th3g0dc0mp13x]

I disagree with inquisitive rogue this is made for a scout. Expertise in nature and survival which are used in tracking i.e. bloodhound, and you get extra movement speed (albeit 9 levels in.)

Warforged (Skirmisher)
Rogue (Scout) [Doesn't always have a weapon but other then that.]
9 16 14 14 14 8
Feat at 1st: Skulker (No disadvantage due to dim light.) or mobile for the extra movement speed.
At level 3 you'll have expertise in: Stealth, Perception, Nature, Survival. (all useful for tracking prey.)
Your movement speed is 35' and you move can move stealthily at a normal pace.

At later levels I'd grab sentinel for preventing escapes, expertise in sleight of hand (knots).

Once this character hits level 10 he's basically inescapable thanks to rolling a minimum of a 20 on tracking, perception, stealth and whatever else you want.

[iTreeby]

Eagle totem barbarian 6 gives you a really great hunting ability.

[Man_Over_Game]

3. Ranger of some kind, fits the theme but the class is not too impressive to me.



I'll be honest, you need to explain that part to me. What you describe as priorities are the exact things that almost every single Ranger can provide for you. If the class doesn't seem strong enough in combat, that's fine, but as you've written it, you should double check what Ranger would provide for you. Nothing else can compare. Here's a quick rundown on what you get out of just the base class:

Level 1: Advantage to track down a specific race, to get information regarding that race, and also learn their language. Pick another race at 6 and 14.
Pick a terrain. While in that terrain, you have expertise on literally anything involved in it regarding tracking, movement, or literally anything. Get Hunter's Mark, the ability to track anything in the game.

Level 3: You can scan for a specific race if they're within a mile (or 6 miles if you're in a favored terrain). You don't get a numbers or locations, only a yes/no.

Level 8: Nonmagical difficult terrain doesn't bother you. If it IS magical, you get advantage to any saving throws related to plants.

Level 10: +10 to stealth checks while you hide in place. You don't even have to worry about exhaustion as you CAN JUST FREAKIN WAIT LIKE A STALKING MURDERBOT.

Level 14: Hide as a bonus action, and you can't be tracked without magic

Level 18: You ignore invisibility.

Level 20: You get bonuses to kill your favored enemies.

Now that we've covered the generic stuff Rangers get, lets go onto specifics:

Gloom Stalker: They can't benefit from Darkvision, so when they run into darkness, or even Darkness, I can trap them like the rat they are.

Horizon Walker: Heh, you wanted to escape through a portal? That's cute. Also, I teleport when I attack, I have Haste AND Misty Step, so please try and run. Make this interesting. In case that's not enough, don't forget, I can walk through walls.

Monster Slayer: I know all of your weaknesses. I can counter your pathetic spells you'll use to run away. I can trap you inside of my inverted Magic Circle so you can never escape. You'll have no choice but to fight me, and I already know all of your tricks.

[Dudewithknives]

I'll be honest, you need to explain that part to me. What you describe as priorities are the exact things that almost every single Ranger can provide for you. If the class doesn't seem strong enough in combat, that's fine, but as you've written it, you should double check what Ranger would provide for you. Nothing else can compare. Here's a quick rundown on what you get out of just the base class:

Level 1: Advantage to track down a specific race, to get information regarding that race, and also learn their language. Pick another race at 6 and 14.
Pick a terrain. While in that terrain, you have expertise on literally anything involved in it regarding tracking, movement, or literally anything. Get Hunter's Mark, the ability to track anything in the game.

Level 3: You can scan for a specific race if they're within a mile (or 6 miles if you're in a favored terrain). You don't get a numbers or locations, only a yes/no.

Level 8: Nonmagical difficult terrain doesn't bother you. If it IS magical, you get advantage to any saving throws related to plants.

Level 10: +10 to stealth checks while you hide in place. You don't even have to worry about exhaustion as you CAN JUST FREAKIN WAIT LIKE A STALKING MURDERBOT.

Level 14: Hide as a bonus action, and you can't be tracked without magic

Level 18: You ignore invisibility.

Level 20: You get bonuses to kill your favored enemies.

Now that we've covered the generic stuff Rangers get, lets go onto specifics:

Gloom Stalker: They can't benefit from Darkvision, so when they run into darkness, or even Darkness, I can trap them like the rat they are.

Horizon Walker: Heh, you wanted to escape through a portal? That's cute. Also, I teleport when I attack, I have Haste AND Misty Step, so please try and run. Make this interesting. In case that's not enough, don't forget, I can walk through walls.

Monster Slayer: I know all of your weaknesses. I can counter your pathetic spells you'll use to run away. I can trap you inside of my inverted Magic Circle so you can never escape. You'll have no choice but to fight me, and I already know all of your tricks.

Level 1. Advantage to track 2 specific races that there is no sure thing you will use. Vs expertise on tracking anything in the game. At least 3 other expertise to round it out regardless of setting.

I am not a fan of abilities that the dm gets to choose if you get to apply it or not.

Level 3. That ability is totally worthless.
Are there humans within a mile? Yep. Ok that helped... better hope you are not tracking a race that is in your party. Heaven forbid it is 6 miles, it will always be positive.

Level 8, know what is better than ignoring difficult terrain in your favored terrain? Taking mobility and ignoring it everywhere with your bonus dash action from rogue, or just bonus dash anyway and keep up.

Level 10: passive rules make that moot. If I have expertise in stealth their passive perception can not beat my stealth anyway. If they are actively searching for me they are in range of me already

Level 14: rogues hide as a bonus action at level 1. Even if they have spells to track someone they still have to find them.

Level 18: rogues can too, also they can’t get advantage anyway.

Level 20: that one is not bad.


The newer subclasses are much better than the old ones, pass without trace is great and the new subclasses are, it does not make up for a lackluster base class

[Kane0]

Whatever you pick, grab yourself ritual caster to give yourself something to do while everyone else sleeps and get some sweet divination happening.

[Dudewithknives]

Whatever you pick, grab yourself ritual caster to give yourself something to do while everyone else sleeps and get some sweet divination happening.

Not a bad plan, I was going to do some simple crafting and maintaining but rituals are not bad, depends on if I can fit the feat in, some classes have much more room than others

[Keravath]

The main problem with the rogue chassis is that it has only one attack (two if you use two weapon fighting) AND it relies on having an ally adjacent or advantage on an attack in order to land sneak attack.

Unless your bounty hunter has a party to do his hunting, he may find it difficult to be an effective combatant if you are just a rogue. In single melee, you are unlikely to ever have advantage. In ranged attacks you can use your bonus action to hide to get sneak attack ... but if you are fighting at range there is nothing stopping your target from getting away.

So although it sounds interesting on paper, it might be a problem.

The Inquisitive rogue might be an exception since they can use Insightful fighting to allow them to land their sneak attacks even without advantage but you will need to take expertise in insight to make this somewhat reliable. (Swashbuckler might also be an option but you will need to set up your attacks so no one else is within 5')

[Dudewithknives]

The main problem with the rogue chassis is that it has only one attack (two if you use two weapon fighting) AND it relies on having an ally adjacent or advantage on an attack in order to land sneak attack.

Unless your bounty hunter has a party to do his hunting, he may find it difficult to be an effective combatant if you are just a rogue. In single melee, you are unlikely to ever have advantage. In ranged attacks you can use your bonus action to hide to get sneak attack ... but if you are fighting at range there is nothing stopping your target from getting away.

So although it sounds interesting on paper, it might be a problem.

The Inquisitive rogue might be an exception since they can use Insightful fighting to allow them to land their sneak attacks even without advantage but you will need to take expertise in insight to make this somewhat reliable. (Swashbuckler might also be an option but you will need to set up your attacks so no one else is within 5')

Yeah, insightful fighting is solid gold.

Swashbuckler was one of the subclasses I played from level 1 to 15, the other being assassin (did not care for the assassin to be honest), I know dozens of nifty tricks with rogues.

[thoroughlyS]

With the official release of the Eberron races I can now finally make a character I have wanted to for 2 years. The sleepless hunter. A bounty hunter who simply never stops, never sleeps, and can’t be reasoned with. Brutally lawful. The question is what class/subclass?
I have some bad news and some good news. The bad news is that warforged don't exactly never stop, and though they technically never sleep they get pretty close.

Sentry’s Rest. When you take a long rest, you must spend at least six hours of it in an inactive, motionless state, rather than sleeping. In this state, you appear inert, but it doesn’t render you unconscious, and you can see and hear as normal.
The good news is there is a fairly popular way to never stop and never sleep:

Aspect of the Moon
Prerequisite: Pact of the Tome feature
You no longer need to sleep and can't be forced to sleep by any means. To gain the benefits of a long rest, you can spend all 8 hours doing light activity, such as reading your Book of Shadows and keeping watch.

All this said, I actually have a pretty fun direction you can take your character: aspiring Inevitable (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inevitable_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)).

Envoy Warforged Acolyte
Great Old One Warlock

STR 10
DEX 16 (15 + 1)
CON 15 (13 + 2)
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 14 (13 + 1)

Languages: Common, and three of your choice.
Skills: Deception, Insight, Investigation, Stealth, Survival(instead of Religion)
Tools: Thieves' Tools
Feats: Actor

You are an initiate of Primus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primus_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)), the One and the Prime, a member of a secret religious order dedicated to finding those who would flee fate. At 1st level, you are a pretty run of the mill bounty hunter, but have the ability to communicate with your party members silently to subdue your quarry. At 2nd level, the build really takes off, thanks to mask of many faces, which allows you to make use of actor. At 3rd level, pact of the tome allows you to take aspect of the moon so that you truly never stop. On top of that, great old one gives you access to detect thoughts for maximum efficacy in getting admissions. At 4th level, resilient(Constitution) makes you even more implacable. At 5th level, you get the best invocation in the game, book of ancient secrets, for those long nights.

[Dudewithknives]

I have some bad news and some good news. The bad news is that warforged don't exactly never stop, and though they technically never sleep they get pretty close.

The good news is there is a fairly popular way to never stop and never sleep:


All this said, I actually have a pretty fun direction you can take your character: aspiring Inevitable (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inevitable_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)).

Envoy Warforged Acolyte
Great Old One Warlock

STR 10
DEX 16 (15 + 1)
CON 15 (13 + 2)
INT 10
WIS 12
CHA 14 (13 + 1)

Languages: Common, and three of your choice.
Skills: Deception, Insight, Investigation, Stealth, Survival(instead of Religion)
Tools: Thieves' Tools
Feats: Actor

You are an initiate of Primus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primus_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)), the One and the Prime, a member of a secret religious order dedicated to finding those who would flee fate. At 1st level, you are a pretty run of the mill bounty hunter, but have the ability to communicate with your party members silently to subdue your quarry. At 2nd level, the build really takes off, thanks to mask of many faces, which allows you to make use of actor. At 3rd level, pact of the tome allows you to take aspect of the moon so that you truly never stop. On top of that, great old one gives you access to detect thoughts for maximum efficacy in getting admissions. At 4th level, resilient(Constitution) makes you even more implacable. At 5th level, you get the best invocation in the game, book of ancient secrets, for those long nights.

The key is the other part of Warforged Resilience, "You don't need to sleep and do not suffer the effects of exhaustion due to lack of rest."

When they take a long rest they have to be inactive but can still be alert, but nothing says I have to take a long rest at all.
If I want spells, or ki points, or HP back, sure I will have to take a rest, but if I was a rogue who is undamage, and has no resourses at all, why bother resting at all?

[thoroughlyS]

If I want spells, or ki points, or HP back, sure I will have to take a rest, but if I was a rogue who is undamage, and has no resourses at all, why bother resting at all?
No matter what kind of character you are, you will eventually need to benefit from a long rest. At the very least, you'll eventually want your Hit Dice back. At those times you will technically have to stop. If you accept that, then I recommend taking any class with short rest resources.

[Dudewithknives]

No matter what kind of character you are, you will eventually need to benefit from a long rest. At the very least, you'll eventually want your Hit Dice back. At those times you will technically have to stop. If you accept that, then I recommend taking any class with short rest resources.

Yeah, I am completely cool with that, I was more loving the ideal of the no sleep or rest for when it comes to travel, as a rogue using a bonus action dash and a normal dash, a monk just being crazy fast normally, and such if I am healthy I can just run top speed from place to place, or if I am tracking someone specific I can tire them out or chatch them because short of them using teleport or something, they will eventually have to camp or stop, even with multiple horses and such, so i will eventually catch them.

I need to get a message to the neighboring towns of an invasion? Top speed running the whole way, even if it takes hours. Nobody else can do that short of travel spells.
The enemy has a 3 day head start and we can't let them escape, I can probably catch them in 24 hours.
Do I need to rest and recharge spells, hp, or whatever? I will do it at the bottom of that lake over there, good luck finding me.

I love the utility of it.

The plot, from what little we know of it, is that it will be a very militaryish king of campaign and we are all in the military for one of the 3 major warring nations of the world. One a major religious power, one a major economic power and the nation we are from, the major industrial and military power. I wrote my backstory as a left over warforged from the last war that was made at the very end of the war and was created too late to fight in it so I have spent the last some odd years tracking down deserters and people who went AWOL.

It is going to be a very heavy ROLE playing game and not too much of ROLL play.
In the group is going to be a Hexblade bladepact/conquest paladin, a guy who just wants to play the beatstick or blaster without all the social and mental skills this time, a druid and myself.
I don't have to worry about combat that much but it is a nice thing to have. I am looking to be the best at what he is meant to do and that is to track someone down, subdue them and bring them back alive, or if I have to track and eliminate.

[Dudewithknives]

Ended up going with a:

Warforged skirmisher
Revised ranger
Using a hand crossbow and a shield(see feat on why)

Custom feat:

Armblade expert:
While using 2 Armblades, that are attuned to you, they do not occupy your hands. You may dual wield these weapons even if they are not light.
+1 dex or con.

However in this game there are no feats that give bonus actions so no cbe and no Pam.

I am planning to dual wield a spiked shield and a hand crossbow.

[Citan]

With the official release of the Eberron races I can now finally make a character I have wanted to for 2 years. The sleepless hunter. A bounty hunter who simply never stops, never sleeps, and can’t be reasoned with. Brutally lawful. The question is what class/subclass?

Assume no multiclassing
Normal point buy rules
Bonus feat at 1st level
MUST be a warforged.
Would be nice to be weapon sufficient such as blade pact, or monk or Eldritch Knight.
Prefer not to be cha. Based, I was party face the last 2 campaigns.

I am thinking:

1. open hand monk envoy. No weapon no armor just ready to go 24/7.

2. Eldritch Knight, bonded weapon solves the effeciency issue, spells just for buffs. Great combat wise but nothing particularly hunter about it.

3. Ranger of some kind, fits the theme but the class is not too impressive to me.

Any ideas or nifty tricks?
Hi mate ;)

I'd suggest you take some peeks at not-too-old threads about Ranger and Monk multiclass or Ranger and Rogue multiclass or possibly even Fighter and Druid multiclass depending on what exactly you put behind the notion of "hunter". ;)

[Dudewithknives]

Hi mate ;)

I'd suggest you take some peeks at not-too-old threads about Ranger and Monk multiclass or Ranger and Rogue multiclass or possibly even Fighter and Druid multiclass depending on what exactly you put behind the notion of "hunter". ;)

I looked hard at shadow monk.

I am building a guy who is just the unstopping hunter.
Not like a hunter of wild game or things, he is in the military and is hardcore LN.
He hunts people. People who went awol, draft dodgers, people who are targets for kidnapping or espionage.
He gets an assignment and just goes 100% until he gets them.
He does not need to eat or drink, so he carries no supplies and leaves no camps.
He does not need to sleep or rest so he just travels non-stop.

If you played a lot of 3.5 think Ranger/Bloodhound presteige class.

My main issue is keeping people from running off or using magic to escape.

I was thinking Shadow monk for a little for the very nice travel abilities and pass without trace and silence, but the idea that someone can teleport to and from shadows but can not see through them is kind of odd to me.
I was also thinking of maybe rogue 2 just for 2 expertise and cunning action.

I am going Revised Ranger and just hit level 2, but I like to plan very far ahead.

[GlenSmash!]

I looked hard at shadow monk.

I am building a guy who is just the unstopping hunter.
Not like a hunter of wild game or things, he is in the military and is hardcore LN.
He hunts people. People who went awol, draft dodgers, people who are targets for kidnapping or espionage.
He gets an assignment and just goes 100% until he gets them.
He does not need to eat or drink, so he carries no supplies and leaves no camps.
He does not need to sleep or rest so he just travels non-stop.

If you played a lot of 3.5 think Ranger/Bloohound presteige class.

My main issue is keeping people from running off or using magic to escape.

I was thinking Shadow monk for a little for the very nice travel abilities and pass without trace and silence, but the idea that someone can teleport to and from shadows but can not see through them is kind of odd to me.
I was also thinking of maybe rogue 2 just for 2 expertise and cunning action.

I am going Revised Ranger and just hit level 2, but I like to plan very far ahead.

https://www.cointalk.com/attachments/65469440-jpg.591880/

[Vorpalchicken]

I second Inquisitive to fit the OP specs. Never resting, ceaselessly and expertly tracking. Seeing through disguises and hiding spots and terminating.

[Dudewithknives]

Ok an update and a rather big decision:

I went with a warforged skirmisher revised ranger.

Because the gm made a ruling against any feats that give a bonus attack, which I am fine with. He did let me use a custom feat:

Armblade Expert:
+1 to dex or str
When you are attuned to an Armblade weapon it is considered to be light, and does not take up the space of your hand. The arm with an attached arm blade can not be used to wield other weapons.

It can be used to manipulate objects as. Kemal.
Essentially the attuned armblades attach along the forearm instead of covering the hand.


So now, what weapons?

Spiked shield and a hand crossbow?
Rapier and hand crossbow?
Net and hand crossbow or rapier? (Because the. Er would be considered light I can dual wield it, but it stays attached and only 5 feet range)
2 hand crossbows?
Maybe a pair of whips just to be different?

I like the net idea because as a hunter I need some way to keep a target from fleeing and with a net I don’t even have to hurt them.

The again a shield is always great, our group needs another up front guy anyway.

Then again you guys might come up with something f I didn’t think of?

[strangebloke]

Shadow Monk: Stealthy, fast, always ready for battle.

Monster Slayer Ranger: You are now the ultimate mage-killing machine.

Inquisitive Rogue: No one lies to you, you never miss anything.

Zealot Barbarian: You just. never. die.

[Dudewithknives]

Shadow Monk: Stealthy, fast, always ready for battle.

Monster Slayer Ranger: You are now the ultimate mage-killing machine.

Inquisitive Rogue: No one lies to you, you never miss anything.

Zealot Barbarian: You just. never. die.

Cool ideas, but I already have the class fixed up, now I am stuck on what weapon setup to use, I posted the situation in the update right above your post.