Paladin/Warlock ASI vs Feat help

[Anthiondel]

Hey, guys.

We're currently at level 3, soon to be 4, and I need a bit of help with what to choose at lvl4.

To put you in context, I'm a Silver Dragonborn Oath of Conquest Paladin of Tyr (yeah, I'm LG, I dowse the flame of hope of evildoers, deal with it), and my idea is to take a dip in Warlock (Hexblade) at level 9 to have 2 ASI and Auras of Protection and Conquest before multiclassing. I find this Oath needs a lot of CHA to be effective with keeping enemies frightened, that's why I want Hexblade to use CHA instead of STR as my attack stat.

My stats are 16, 8, 13, 10, 12, 16. The party consists of a monk, a warlock and a rougue and ocasionally a cleric, so I'm the "tank" of the party and secondary (or main) healer. I go sword+board and have Defense style.

So, thing is: should I pump my CHA to 18, get Resilient and pump my CON to 14 (more HP, prof in CON saves and better BW DC), Shield Master (useful bonus action, and I'm trained in Athletics) or Sentinel (tanky feat)?

[nickl_2000]

So feats...

Shield Master - This can be great ,other than the possibility of driving ranged users nuts. So, if your rogue and warlock are focusing on ranged attacks, knocking someone prone is going to give them disadvantage on all their shots (ruining the rogue's sneak attack chances). Also, it dependent on the campaign, if you are fighting Giants you lose out on the ability often. The reaction to reduce AoE damage is great though, and knocking someone prone helps the melee rogue sneak attack more and makes a monk love you.

Sentinel - This one depends on the play style. If the rogue and the monk are in the thick of combat it's a great way to make someone suffer when they don't attack you. On the other hand, if they do hit and run tactics, you will use it less often. Still, it's a really good feat.

Resilient Con - Another good feat, if you are using concentration spells (and only if you are really). You will get better at saving throws when you get your auras at level 6, so it likely isn't worth it. If you are looking for a feat that will even out your con and be very fitting for your character you take a look at Dragon Fear from Xanathar's.


Charisma ASI - Gives you 1 higher DC on your Conquering Presence and spells for level 4 and 5, and an extra +1 to saves for level 6 and onwards. IMHO, this would be most effective being taken at level 8 than right now. I think you will get more out of a feat than this right now.


In the end though, what seems the most fun for you?

[CTurbo]

Oath of Conquest you say??? Go +2 Cha all the way without even second guessing yourself.

[Corran]

IMO you definitely need a feat that boosts concentration before you eventually get access to the fear spell (at paladin 9). Personally I value that more than a +2 in CHA, mostly because I value tremendously the spells fear and wrathful smite for a conquest paladin. And theoretically I would not halt my conquest progression till level 10 (meaning that I would probably take my warlock level at character level 11, which is also nice cause that's when EB powers up again; also just one level before I get my dpr increase from IDS, so it's nice boosting your accuracy just before my dpr increase comes into play next level), because of how I value fear and aura of courage (assuming the DM lets my aura of courage deal with pre-existing frightened condition; ie assuming it makes casting fear party-friendly-ish). But I can see good reasons in your case regarding taking that warlock level a bit sooner than that (ie at about level 5). That's because the warlock level gives you access to some stuff that also buff your tanking abilities (mainly shield and absorb elements, along with that 1st level spell slot that recharges on short rests which is really useful when you have the shield spell) and can also give you some soft control (more on that later), aside from hexblade's curse, a ranged attack and hex warrior (which powers up gradually as you are pumping up CHA). So, to make the most out of you warlock level, this concentration boosting feat that you need and that I mentioned in the beginning, needs to be warcaster (instead of resilient, which is what a singleclass conquest would take, and which IMO is a better feat as it also boosts you CON save which is the most targeted save in the game; and that's a big part of the price -ie getting warcaster instead of resilient- you pay if you take that otherwise very useful warlock dip). So yeah, you need warcaster, before you dip in warlock. But... that odd con score is really hurting my eyes and asks for resilience. Despite my repulsion of odd stats, I would still take warcaster instead of resilient, cause I think I value the ability to cast shield, absorb elements and BB as a reaction, more than rounding my con score and boosting my con saves. On the other hand, having an odd con score might tempt me to get resilient instead of warcaster, and thus forgoing taking a level in hexblade. Hmm... yeah, it's a tought call... If you really want to dip hexblade, you could ask your DM if they would allow you to take 2 points out of STR (thus bringing it to 15), and usin those same 2 points to boost CON to 14. With a nice round con score, I would have no problem grabing warcaster instead of resilient and thus going warlock (and now with warcaster in play, I would enjoy using shield, absorb elements and BB with my reaction). Or alternatively (and even better), I would pick resilient to round my odd con score if the DM didn't pay attention (intentionally) to the S/M casting requirement (in which case you could use the spells shield and absorb elements as a reaction, but not BB; but that's ok, as conquest paladins make the least use of BB OA's, due to how their aura immobilizes foes already -when they use fear powers, which is what they do anyway). If the DM does not handwave the S/M casting requirements, but allows you to redistribute 2 points in your stats (ie STR 15, CON 14), then I would probably take warcaster as a feat at level 4, and I would take my warlock level at character level 5. There are sure disadvantages in delaying all of extra attack, aura of protection, aura of conquest, fear and aura of courage (but you were already delaying the two last per you initial planning), but I think given your group composition and a reworked stats of STR 15 (which hex warrior would make up for early) it is probably worth it (but I wont go into more detail since I do not know beforehand if you can actually rework slightly your stats). Now, aside from the concentration boosting feat and charisma bumps, and always paying attention to your allies (who are the reason why I think shield master would make for a poor feat), I would consider lucky, inspiring leader and alert as my candidates for the level 16 & 19 picks.

ps: Optimization really comes down to optimized tactics. An optimized build is made in a way so that it can produce the goods during combat encounters. Think about your tactics (when you use which spell, and how your action economy plays out, especially during round 1 of combat). For example, when you open the encounter with conquering presence, you can use your bonus action during that first turn to cast shield of faith. The bonus to AC synergizes with the disadvantage imposed by frightened enemies, but that aside, it's a nice spell to conentrate as a tank. That's a good low-level first round opener when fighting mobs. Later on, when you get access to the fear spell, you will use fear in your first turn, and the hexblade's curse could use your bonus action during the same round (as you cannot cast leveled spells like shield of faith or spiritual weapon during the same turn you cast fear), which you will probably use (ie the curse) against an enemy not affected by the fear spell. And when against fear immune mobs (or mobs with high wisdom save/ resistance to fear), bless is a good first round opener (hexblade's curse again complements nicely you first round). Now, against bosses, wrathful smite followed by taking the attack action or GFB (possibly adding in smites), and if they are fear immune or they have magic/legendary resistance, then spiritual hammer followed by taking the attack action (or hexblade curse if you want to economize your spell slots). Bless always remain an all-purpose concentration spell to fall back on when nothing else would be appropriate or when the enemies have dangerous attacks that target saves. Etc etc.

[Angelalex242]

For a Pallock, Cha 18 (and Cha 20 at level 8) and don't look back. You'll never regret that 20 in your primary stat.

[Nidgit]

If you're the tank, you want more HP. I'd say take Resilient Con at 4 and bump Cha at 8.

[Guy Lombard-O]

If you're the tank, you want more HP. I'd say take Resilient Con at 4 and bump Cha at 8.

That order is what I basically did with my Conquest/Hexblade character (although I was Vhuman, so went 1 and 4). Getting a Bless or Divine Favor that doesn't immediately fizzle is worth the feat, and more HP is nice for a melee combatant, too.

But what I really wanted to suggest was taking that 1 level of Hexblade much earlier, like at 2nd level. The benefits of having the short rest spell slot is pretty noticeable in my party (really only 1 or 2 SR per session, but it freed my mind to know I could get one back!), and having EB and Shield for most of your career instead of basically at the end of it (never played past 12th level) makes the dip much more meaningful. Sure, it stinks to have the Extra Attack and Auras delayed by a level. But having a ranged attack and damage boosters like Hex and Curse came up often in my character's play, and it let me basically dump Dex to 10 because, hey, no longbow. And at least for character levels 5 & 11, you can still get two/three attacks per round with EB (I stayed at range a lot more at those levels).

If you're going to make a SAD paladin, you might as well benefit/build it early.