Help me choose thematic spells. If you're unable to be consistent, don't even bother.

[Arkhios]

First of all, I apologize for my candor in the topic (and throughout this post), but honestly, it's quite annoying when people attempt to ply their own choices in utter disregard of my specific wishes.

Here's a list of defining traits, that I'd like you to regard when offering your help:

Race & class(es): Human. Paladin. Oath of the Ancients (exploring the druidic side of it). At some point in near-ish future, I'll be taking levels in Warlock, with his Patron being the Celestial (this has already been decided and I'm not interested in further discussion over this). I will be taking no more than 6, maybe 7 levels in Warlock. Period. If you're interested, the character's Charisma is 16 and it might remain 16, or increase by 2 eventually. Either way, that's a thing I can handle myself.
EDIT: The Pact will be Tome, as the Book of Shadows is rather fitting for druidic/old faith spellcraft. For my cantrips with the Tome I was thinking of taking Thaumaturgy, Word of Radiance, and Thorn Whip. For Invocations, Aspect of the Moon is incredibly fitting with the Wolf theme. As is the Book of Ancient Secrets as a whole.

Alignment: Good. Chaotic Good to be precise, but not chaotic in a fey-like capricious way; instead, he values personal freedom and honorable way of life. He reveres the teachings of the storm god, and would never turn away from an honorable fight.

Faith and beliefs: Balancing between the celtic druidism (The Old Faith) and a setting-specific god of storms (similar to Kord -- or Odin -- in many ways). Since he belongs to the Wolf Tribe, he holds in high value the virtues of the Great Spirit Wolf: Honor, Protection, Loyalty, and Intelligence. Would he not, he might as well be a barbarian instead.

General appearance: burly "norse" wearing a white wolf pelt as a cloak, bits of fur and leather strapped on top of an elaborate dwarven style splint mail. The character is a dual wielder, currently using a Dragon Slayer (longsword) and a non-magical warhammer, so it would be great if the spells to learn were easy to cast even with hands full (or at least with War Caster, which I will take with my next ASI soon enough).

So, all this considered, which spells would you recommend for me to take from Warlock. Please, try to pay attention to the spells description and naming, because I'd rather not have spells that are designed after necrotic or fiendish themes.

[nickl_2000]

Spells that seem appropriate for your themes ! denotes ones that seem to fit both the storm god and nature based oath of ancients. ? are ones that may fit, but are more questionable.

I am focusing more on theme and less on the most effective choices as well.

Cantrips:
Create Bonfire
Frostbite
! Lightning Lure
! Booming Blade (although this isn't as good since you are dual wielding)
! Thunderclap


Level 1:
Armor of Agathys
! Witch Bolt


Level 2:
! Darkness
! Shatter
Earthbond
? Spider Climb


Level 3:
! Thunder Step
? Gaseous Form
Remove Curse
? Fly

Level 4:
Elemental Bane
? Banishment


Now as for most effective spells for a Paladin/Warlock from this list.
Lightning Lure since it is extremely fitting and can help out your allies in combat (pull them away from dangerous situations without provoking AoOs or doing damage)
Thunderclap since it is both fitting and could be useful if you are surrounded
Armor of Agathys lasts for an hour, requires no concentration and does cold damage (elemental damage is fitting for Druids). You can cast this before combat and keep it up for an hour.
Shatter does really fitting damage, has some decent range, gives you an AoE, and scales decently for a warlock. This one seems perfect
Spider Climb is more of a struggle thematically, but seems like it could be really useful for this character as a utility spell. It doesn't scale at all though
Thunder Step has perfect damage type, scaling damage, let's you teleport out of danger, and allows you to take a friend. Really solid choice, especially since it's Verbal only.

[PhoenixPhyre]

Looks like a good fit for the Divine Warrior theme (see my Thematic Magic revamp). Cross-referencing against the Celestial Warlock list, the options that match are (only considering theme, not power):

Cantrips
light, sacred flame (celestial bonus cantrips)
blade ward
thunderclap (storm theme)
frostbite or create bonfire (for the arctic/nordic theme?)

1st level
guiding bolt (celestial)
cure wounds (celestial)
protection from evil and good
witch bolt (storm theme, but sucks)

2nd level
lesser restoration (celestial)
shatter (storm theme)
misty step
earthbind (stay down here! don't run fly away!)

3rd level
fly
remove curse
counterspell
dispel magic (protect allies)
revivify (celestial)
daylight (celestial)

4th level (if you go to Warlock 7)
Banishment
Elemental Bane


Any of those useful? Sadly the Divine Warrior theme doesn't overlap well with the warlock default list.

[Rolero]

Ok, my two cents.

Assuming 6th level, this would be my proposed list:

Cantrips:
-Lightning Lure: grab your enemies with sparking help.
-Booming blade: the power of thunder is yours to command.
-Prestidigitation: all-around utility in your daily chores.

1st level:
-Armor of Agathys: named after one celestial figure of your patron.
-Comprehend Languages: if you are a represent of the old faith, better understand whoever you encounter to avoid incidents that can dishonor your ways.
-Expeditious Retreat: sometimes you need to run like the wind.

2nd level:
-Mirror image: confuse your enemies with the tricks of the fey.
-Enthrall: yours is the voice of the storm and the old gods, audiences should remember the charm of that tradition.

3rd level:
-Thunder step: auto-explanatory.
-Counterspell: dispel the foul magics of the unfaithful.

One thing you have not mentioned is your Pact. Since you appear to be a gish I suppose it will be Blade. Whoever, may I suggest Tome instead?
You explain a very religious background, so some focus into a more academic approach to the arcane arts of your patron could be fitting. It can be very thematic in you grab the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation, opening up lots of useful rituals and, following that idea, the extra cantrips could be chosen from the Cleric and Druid list.

Suggested invocations:
-Book of Ancient Secrets: explained above.
-Aspect of the Moon: can be linked to druidic traditions
-Misty Visions: the power of nature lets you employ mirages to trick reality.

[Arkhios]

One thing you have not mentioned is your Pact. Since you appear to be a gish I suppose it will be Blade. Whoever, may I suggest Tome instead?
You explain a very religious background, so some focus into a more academic approach to the arcane arts of your patron could be fitting. It can be very thematic in you grab the Book of Ancient Secrets invocation, opening up lots of useful rituals and, following that idea, the extra cantrips could be chosen from the Cleric and Druid list.

Suggested invocations:
-Book of Ancient Secrets: explained above.
-Aspect of the Moon: can be linked to druidic traditions
-Misty Visions: the power of nature lets you employ mirages to trick reality.

Ah, I knew I forgot to mention something!

I wrote that over a long period of time, having been distracted multiple times, so I forgot to mention some rather important things, indeed.

The character has had a preliminary education in the arcane arts in his youth and likes to read all sorts of books when he is not working at the forge.

As for the invocations and cantrips for the Tome Pact, your suggestions aligned almost exactly with mine, as you can see, now that I edited the OP.

[Arkhios]

Spells that seem appropriate for your themes ! denotes ones that seem to fit both the storm god and nature based oath of ancients. ? are ones that may fit, but are more questionable.

I am focusing more on theme and less on the most effective choices as well.

Cantrips:
Create Bonfire
Frostbite
! Lightning Lure
! Booming Blade (although this isn't as good since you are dual wielding)
! Thunderclap


Level 1:
Armor of Agathys
! Witch Bolt


Level 2:
! Darkness
! Shatter
Earthbond
? Spider Climb


Level 3:
! Thunder Step
? Gaseous Form
Remove Curse
? Fly

Level 4:
Elemental Bane
? Banishment


Now as for most effective spells for a Paladin/Warlock from this list.
Lightning Lure since it is extremely fitting and can help out your allies in combat (pull them away from dangerous situations without provoking AoOs or doing damage)
Thunderclap since it is both fitting and could be useful if you are surrounded
Armor of Agathys lasts for an hour, requires no concentration and does cold damage (elemental damage is fitting for Druids). You can cast this before combat and keep it up for an hour.
Shatter does really fitting damage, has some decent range, gives you an AoE, and scales decently for a warlock. This one seems perfect
Spider Climb is more of a struggle thematically, but seems like it could be really useful for this character as a utility spell. It doesn't scale at all though
Thunder Step has perfect damage type, scaling damage, let's you teleport out of danger, and allows you to take a friend. Really solid choice, especially since it's Verbal only.

I like what you have here. Booming Blade can be useful once I have War Caster, so it's not immediately bad choice. However, I'm a bit iffy about taking Armor of Agathys, for reasons I'll explain later in this post.



Looks like a good fit for the Divine Warrior theme (see my Thematic Magic revamp). Cross-referencing against the Celestial Warlock list, the options that match are (only considering theme, not power):

Cantrips
light, sacred flame (celestial bonus cantrips)
blade ward
thunderclap (storm theme)
frostbite or create bonfire (for the arctic/nordic theme?)

1st level
guiding bolt (celestial)
cure wounds (celestial)
protection from evil and good
witch bolt (storm theme, but sucks)

2nd level
lesser restoration (celestial)
shatter (storm theme)
misty step
earthbind (stay down here! don't run fly away!)

3rd level
fly
remove curse
counterspell
dispel magic (protect allies)
revivify (celestial)
daylight (celestial)

4th level (if you go to Warlock 7)
Banishment
Elemental Bane


Any of those useful? Sadly the Divine Warrior theme doesn't overlap well with the warlock default list.
These are certainly useful as well. I do agree that Witch Bolt sucks, at least as a spell to concentrate on. As a one-time blast it's a decent spell.
There is a overlap with the Misty Step, because I already get it as a bonus spell from Oath of the Ancients.
PS. I do like your Thematic Magic Revamp, btw. Might even use them somewhere, if I have the time.



Ok, my two cents.

Assuming 6th level, this would be my proposed list:

Cantrips:
-Lightning Lure: grab your enemies with sparking help.
-Booming blade: the power of thunder is yours to command.
-Prestidigitation: all-around utility in your daily chores.

1st level:
-Armor of Agathys: named after one celestial figure of your patron.
-Comprehend Languages: if you are a represent of the old faith, better understand whoever you encounter to avoid incidents that can dishonor your ways.
-Expeditious Retreat: sometimes you need to run like the wind.

2nd level:
-Mirror image: confuse your enemies with the tricks of the fey.
-Enthrall: yours is the voice of the storm and the old gods, audiences should remember the charm of that tradition.

3rd level:
-Thunder step: auto-explanatory.
-Counterspell: dispel the foul magics of the unfaithful.
Again, solid list of spells. Still, Armor of Agathys is again a little troublesome. See below.


Overall, I think I can work with these spells. Of course, if anyone have something to add, feel welcome to share them.
The only big issue I have is with Armor of Agathys, because the spell's name refers to the sixth layer of Carceri, which is a neutral (chaotic) evil-aligned plane of existence, and kinda ruffles "a few" feathers in terms of the character's alignment. Unless I can figure out a reflavored description (and perhaps even name) that I'm satisfied with and my DM approves. I'll have to think about it further, but currently I think I'm going to say 'no' to AoA.

[Unoriginal]

It's just a name, Arkhios. You could call it "Armor of Jotunheim" or "Armor of Ysgard"


And it's not like the Norse didn't have a "bad place for the dead".

[Arkhios]

It's just a name, Arkhios. You could call it "Armor of Jotunheim" or "Armor of Ysgard"


And it's not like the Norse didn't have a "bad place for the dead".

True, it's only a name, but if my DM is not ok with me renaming it, I'm going to have my (admittedly foolish) "ocd" kick in.

[Unoriginal]

True, it's only a name, but if my DM is not ok with me renaming it, I'm going to have my (admittedly foolish) "ocd" kick in.

Well, thematically, you think that Odin WOULDN'T steal power from Carceri if he could?

[NaughtyTiger]

I love these posts.

I have this specific build, really specific build. I invite you peasants to submit offerings to me and I will disparage them, and tell you why your offerings are wrong.
But it is okay because I explained that I am demanding in the title and said sorry not sorry.

Carry on.

[Mjolnirbear]

Odin is a trickster. There is no doubt that he'd send Loki to steal something he thinks the gods should have. He used Loki to screw someone out of their pay (and got Sleipnir out of it 9 months later).

Assuming you can rename it, you can have it be a 'magic item' forged by the dwarfs at the highest peak in Niflheim, or rune lore stolen from the frost giant.

However, your character does not appear to be Nordic, unless you intend the ancestor worship to reflect Nordic themes. Ancestor worship is hardly unique to vikings. You did say druid, so look up Ogham (pronounced oh-am) runes. Druids are, effectively, some of the most famous kinds of shamen in existence, and I'd read the Iron Druid series if you want some juicy ideas.

One thing skalds and druids share is an exacting oral tradition and superlative memory. At some point you may wish to consider Keen Mind to reflect this; however, this training is for those who will be the poets of their culture. You can thus easily avoid it if you want.

Warcaster solves your somatic component problem. So would the War Ruby, a common magic item in Xanathar's.

Given your lupine patron, you may also consider the Primal Savagery cantrip. Expeditious retreat reflects a wolf's long and swift running speed. Spirit Guardians can reflect the powerful connections you have with your ancestors. Banishment or Banishing Smite are perfect for otherworldly Foes. Enemies Abound is a very tricksy thing to pull on enemies. Major Image and Hypnotic Pattern, too. Druids rarely had flashy spells in the lore. More tricks of perception, enchantment and illusion. Vicious Mockery suits druid wordplay perfectly if you can convince your DM to let you have it.

I'd also suggest ritual casting. Magic in druidic and Nordic themes use runes and rituals. Rituals often involve tossing the bones and reading the information that the runes on the bones reveal (detect spells, identify). Where the spell does not provide information, you can inscribe specific runes on the ground or weapons or in tattoos to reflect abilities you can call upon (alarm, tiny hut)

You can also use runes to flavour your spells and supernatural class abilities. Your paladin auras can be a function of the Helm of Awe. Runes on your weapon could channel Elemental Weapon. You can draw Magic Circles with runes and use them to summon creatures.

Edit: Dammit I was thinking favoured soul sorcerer for some reason, and that you got to just pick cleric spells. Spirit Guardians is out. Unless you can ask your DM to let you switch out the pact spell list to better suit your character. You can get a lot of flavour that way.

[Crgaston]

The only big issue I have is with Armor of Agathys, because the spell's name refers to the sixth layer of Carceri, which is a neutral (chaotic) evil-aligned plane of existence, and kinda ruffles "a few" feathers in terms of the character's alignment. Unless I can figure out a reflavored description (and perhaps even name) that I'm satisfied with and my DM approves. I'll have to think about it further, but currently I think I'm going to say 'no' to AoA.


How about calling it Armor of Auril? It already does cold damage, and the Fey are pretty closely connected to OoA Paladins and Druids, at least in my mind, so you wouldn't even need to change the spell description, just the name. If you make it to Warlock 7 you'd be getting 20 temp HP and retaliation damage up to 2x/short rest. I honestly wouldn't bother with it until you could burn a 4th (maybe 3rd) level slot on it, though.

[Arkhios]

I love these posts.

I have this specific build, really specific build. I invite you peasants to submit offerings to me and I will disparage them, and tell you why your offerings are wrong.
But it is okay because I explained that I am demanding in the title and said sorry not sorry.

Carry on.

Wtf, man? I disagreed with only one suggested spell being immediately fitting, and explained why I think that way, and still I'm willing to consider it if I can figure out a way to make it work in my head.

And what's wrong in hoping that people would respect one's build/concept? Why is it a problem that I (or anyone) have a specific idea of something? It's my character, not yours. I have every right to predetermine what I want to accomplish with the character. If I feel some options are out of question, that should be enough. It's not same as disparaging them.

Again, I've been open to (almost all) suggestions so far. AoA is the only spell I had a differing opinion about, but to my defense, I stated the reason already at the end of my first post (albeit vaguely, I admit).

[NaughtyTiger]

Wtf, man? I disagreed with only one suggested spell being immediately fitting, and explained why I think that way, and still I'm willing to consider it if I can figure out a way to make it work in my head.

You are right. If you had just said Thanks for the feedback, Un would think his suggestion had merit.
You had to let him know you disagreed with his suggestion.

And you had to let him know that reskinning wasn't an option because your DM might not like it.

[ImproperJustice]

I am rarely consistent but I felt like bothering.

Cantrips: Minor Illusion and Friends
To deceive everyday folk that already don’t like you that you have a theme.
Level 1: Silent Image and Charm Person
To convince people you have a theme
Level 2: Suggestion
To suggest to everyone you have a theme. Replace with Mass Suggestion later

Level 9: Wish
Wish for a theme

[Arkhios]

You are right. If you had just said Thanks for the feedback, Un would think his suggestion had merit.
You had to let him know you disagreed with his suggestion.

And you had to let him know that reskinning wasn't an option because your DM might not like it.

You are overreacting over something that doesn't even concern you, and I honestly doubt you are a psychic and know exactly how Unoriginal felt about my comment. I never intended to belittle him. In fact, I even agreed with him on that it was just a name that could be changed. I just have my doubts if it helps.

Unoriginal: In the case I did offend you or appear as I'd be belittling you, I'm sincerely sorry that I did. I didn't mean to. I appreciate your thoughts, and I admit I should've at least said 'thank you'. So, thank you.


I am rarely consistent but I felt like bothering.

Cantrips: Minor Illusion and Friends
To deceive everyday folk that already don’t like you that you have a theme.
Level 1: Silent Image and Charm Person
To convince people you have a theme
Level 2: Suggestion
To suggest to everyone you have a theme. Replace with Mass Suggestion later

Level 9: Wish
Wish for a theme

Reported for trolling. Also, thank you for letting me know you don't like me. I had nothing against you prior to this point, but now I can concur that the feeling is mutual.

[ImproperJustice]

You misunderstand.
I never said I didn’t like you.
The Friends spell turns people hostile after it wears off, so the best use is to apply to folks who already don’t like you.

And hey, on the subject of trolling.
You can’t be that suprised that you would get some snarky responses with a title and an OP like that.

I just thought I would join in your little game of snobbery (Oh man I can’t believe people respond so negatively ) game.

So to keep in line with the theme:

Phantasmal Force: cast on self to beleive your theme is working.
Hallucinatory Terrain: So all can see your theme.
Command: “Worship”. Make people worship your theme for a few brief moments.
Message: Silently invite people to partake in your theme.

[Unoriginal]

Unoriginal: In the case I did offend you or appear as I'd be belittling you, I'm sincerely sorry that I did. I didn't mean to. I appreciate your thoughts, and I admit I should've at least said 'thank you'. So, thank you.

You didn't offend me, and it didn't appear as if you were belittling me. There is no need for apologies or for thanks. But thank you anyway.

[Arkhios]

You didn't offend me, and it didn't appear as if you were belittling me. There is no need for apologies or for thanks. But thank you anyway.

Glad to hear we're on the same page here :)

Anyway, I asked if my DM had any suggestions regarding my "dilemma" of taking Armor of Agathys for a good aligned character. His response was that since my Celestial Patron will be Kharash*, it's quite possible that he has gone hunting in the Carceri, and simply brought the knowledge of the spell back as a "souvenir" of sorts. Therefore I "reasoned" it, that if Kharash doesn't mind, my character shouldn't either - regardless of their alignments. In other words, whichever spell I (as a player) choose, they can be explained so that Kharash himself has chosen to grant those spells, rather than my character having researched and asked for them by himself.

My character has this trinket that is "A blank book whose pages refuse to hold ink, chalk, graphite, or any other substance for marking" that he found from an old library said to have belonged to his ancestor, and we figured that it functions similarly to the Book of Shadows, but might be a bit different in some ways. We agreed on the idea that every time my character would learn a new spell, they would "appear" on the blank pages on their own by the will of Kharash, just to make the trinket appear as a mysterious object still relevant for my character.


Neutral Good Male Lupinal
Kharash is a werewolf-like creature with topaz eyes, typically lurking in the shadows, traveling on all fours. Measuring 10 feet long, his lithe, muscular body is covered in a neatly groomed black and brown fur. He smiles broadly, revealing rows of sharp, pearly-white fangs.

The paragon of lupinals, Duke Kharash is the closest Companion to Talisid, sharing the Celestial Lion’s passion for the hunt as well as his love for the untamed wilderness. The two are nigh inseparable except when Talisid chooses to enter a populated area, at which time Kharash usually opts to remain in the wild. Although sly of tongue and not exactly shy, Kharash doesn’t care much for large groups or accolades. He adores children but is inexplicably awkward around them. His ability to remain out of sight coupled with his willingness to let Talisid speak on his behalf in public has earned Kharash the moniker “Talisid’s Shadow,” and the lupinal duke doesn’t seem to mind.

An undisputed master of the hunt, Kharash trusts his senses and intuition. He doesn’t fall easily into traps, and he studies his enemies carefully before moving in for the kill. He maintains no permanent residence. When traveling apart from Talisid and the Companions, Kharash is usually joined by a pack of his trusted lupinals.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gamelore/images/d/dc/Kharash%2C_the_Stalker.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150720011805

[dejarnjc]

You misunderstand.
I never said I didn’t like you.
The Friends spell turns people hostile after it wears off, so the best use is to apply to folks who already don’t like you.

And hey, on the subject of trolling.
You can’t be that suprised that you would get some snarky responses with a title and an OP like that.

I just thought I would join in your little game of snobbery (Oh man I can’t believe people respond so negatively ) game.

So to keep in line with the theme:

Phantasmal Force: cast on self to beleive your theme is working.
Hallucinatory Terrain: So all can see your theme.
Command: “Worship”. Make people worship your theme for a few brief moments.
Message: Silently invite people to partake in your theme.

With the high number of thread derails and pointless comments on this forum it's of little surprise that Arkhios felt the need to lay out specific guidelines for his thread.



But back to the subject at hand...

I'd suggest considering the Fear spell. I always like flavoring the verbal components as a battle cry, a fierce command, or, as would be appropriate in this case, a wolf's howl.

[Arkhios]

With the high number of thread derails and pointless comments on this forum it's of little surprise that Arkhios felt the need to lay out specific guidelines for his thread.



But back to the subject at hand...

I'd suggest considering the Fear spell. I always like flavoring the verbal components as a battle cry, a fierce command, or, as would be appropriate in this case, a wolf's howl.

Not a bad idea. Thanks!