Fighter / Rogue Assassin past level 4

[Escribblings]

I'm just creating a new character.

He is going to be a Warforged Fighter/Assassin.

My plan is to take the first level as a fighter and then 3 levels of Assassin.

However I'm conflicted after that.

Do I increase rogue for sneak attack dice, or fighter for more ASI/feats and extra attacks?

If I go more Fighter, which is what I'm leaning towards I think, I'm looking at Battlemaster or Champion, but most likely BM.

However...

Should I sacrifice another 2 levels of either for another 4 superiority dice from the Spell-less Ranger.

If underdark was allowed, this would be a better option.

[hymer]

From Fi1/Ro3, I'd go another level of rogue (for that delicious ASI).
Then I'd continue rogue until I felt it stopped making sense. That might be as high as Ro14. After that I'd add fighter until I get two attacks.

A possible detour is to get Fi2 for the Action Surge somewhere along the line - though I'd go there after Ro5.

[Escribblings]

Good point on the ASI...

I've just realised that Gloom Stalker is in XGtE...

Maybe a spell less Gloom Stalker Assassin would be better than a Battlemaster Assassin.

I'm going to have to try and work out the pros and cons to each.

I don't think doing a 3 way split is that good, but you never know.

[Kadesh]

Why would Fighter give you more ASI's? The earliest you'd get more ASI's is 9th level. In real terms of play, Rogue gives you more ASI's.

[CTurbo]

Take at least 5 Rogue levels in a row to get 3d6 Sneak Damage, ASI, and Cunning Action, then take 4 Fighter levels in a row to get ASI and extra attack, then probably switch back to Rogue again.

Alternatively, Take Gloom Stalker to 5 instead of Fighter. The Gloom Stalker/Assassin combo is a match made in heaven.

Gloom Stalker 5, Fighter 2, Assassin X is a beast of a character especially as an archer.

[Palfatreos]

are you still able to change your starting setup? if so i would start with rogue first to have 4 skill proficiency instead only having 3 when you MC into it. Also start MC after one reach lvl 5.

If you going pure ranged assasin 5/gloomstalker 5 synergy well together to hit anybody who goes after you with advantage. After lvl 10 you could put rest of your level in assassin. alternetive you could put 3 lvl into battlemaster for those superioty dice. You get 5 ASI total (you lose one because odd 5/3 ranger/fighter combo but rogue give you one extra on lvl 10 so it even out).

If you want versetile melee/ranger swashbuckler 5/battlemaster 5 might be intresting and make into 12 rogue/8 fighter (this give you 7 ASI plenty to get the dual wielding and archer feats). The swashbuckler help alot in disengaging melee combat since it disable you enemy oppertunity attack when you attack them saving your bonus action to dash away instead disengaging.

[bid]

You really want fighter 2, action surge is almost necessary for assassins. I think BM fits better than gloomstalker for a warforged, but both boost your first turn.

Getting either to level 5 for extra attack is worth the loss of SA damage.

I agree that starting rogue for an extra skill is worth it. You won't need Con save that much.

[Escribblings]

Ok, looks like the spell less ranger is out...

I'm still going to go ranger/rogue, but can't decide on what to take first.

There are pros and cons.

+1 skill and int saves from rogue
con saves and more weapon/armour profs from ranger.

Then looking at the long game...

Taking ranger to 5 for a feat/ASI and that extra attack

Taking rogue to 4 for cunning action, assassinate, and a feat/ASI - and the sneak dice

Then, leveling up whichever until I'm at ranger 5 rogue 4...

Then it's either continue with rogue for more sneak attack or add 2/3/4 levels of fighter for action surge / battlemaster/champion / feat/ASI

[Palfatreos]

I still prefer rogue first because the pros you stated. As for cons you still get martial weapons and medium armor (although if you have +5 dex mod you want studded leather anyway) after you MC.
The rogue still has acces to shortbow and rapier, daggers as a backup melee weapon until you MC. As for con saves i tend to grab resilient feat later on if GM tend to trow more con saves spellcasters.

[Escribblings]

Have decided to go Rogue first, just replied to the GM.

We roll 4d6 and drop the lowest, so we'll see where that goes.

[bid]

con saves and more weapon/armour profs from ranger.
Ranger saves are Str/Dex.

[Crgaston]

Ok, looks like the spell less ranger is out...

I'm still going to go ranger/rogue, but can't decide on what to take first.

There are pros and cons.

+1 skill and int saves from rogue
con saves and more weapon/armour profs from ranger.

Then looking at the long game...

Taking ranger to 5 for a feat/ASI and that extra attack

Taking rogue to 4 for cunning action, assassinate, and a feat/ASI - and the sneak dice

Then, leveling up whichever until I'm at ranger 5 rogue 4...

Then it's either continue with rogue for more sneak attack or add 2/3/4 levels of fighter for action surge / battlemaster/champion / feat/ASI


If you're going to Rogue 4, then Rogue 5 is pretty much too good to delay because of the 3d6 SA and Uncanny Dodge. And then there's Wis save proficiency at Gloomstalker 7.

If you're going fighter, have a look at Samurai as well. Advantage on demand 3x/day would be dope on a Gloomstalker Assassin for times when you roll low in initiative, or even just following up with another round of advantage. BM is still probably better mathematically, though.

[Escribblings]

Ranger saves are Str/Dex.

My bad.

Was getting confused with fighter

[bid]

Was getting confused with fighter
Yep.

Between Str and Int, it's really a question of flavor. And ranger seems tastier for warforged, so no change.:smallsmile:

[Escribblings]

Right...

So
Rogue 1 / Ranger Gloom Stalker 1-5 / Rogue Assassin 2-4...

Then do I choose to take rogue to 8? Or fighter for 1/2/3?

That's far enough away not to worry about now.

Getting to level 6 is easy. Getting past that... Well.

[Palfatreos]

I would grab rogue until 5 just for the uncanny dodge to be able half 1 attack can be huge in your survivability, especially if you gonna be mainly shooting with a bow because you wont be using that reaction otherwise.

after 5 rogue/ 5 ranger i would recommend going 12 rogue -> 3 fighter or 4 fighter -> 11 rogue.
both lvl 4 fighter or lvl 12 rogue give +1 ASI the ratio difference just to get it earlier depending which path you take.
as for fighter i would grab battle master you can choose 3 maneuvers and have 4 superity dice. It only cost 1 superity dice to use a maneuvers and you can regain those dice after short/long rest.

as for the 3 manuevers to choose i would recommend:
Precision Attack: roll your superity dice with your d20 dice to see if it hit, handy for high AC enemies + mitigate the -5 if you use the sharpshooter feat.
Riposte: if sombody melee atack you you can use your reaction to attack back. It synergy well with rogue since you can apply sneak attack again (since sneak atack limited per turn not per round).
Trip Attack: if it succeed you target fall prone. if you melee you wanna use it on first attack, if your ranged you might use it last or if your party ranged heavy not use it.

as for going for rogue or fighter first idk i ques fighter give you more short burst offensive capability (both action surge and battle master have limited resource that get replenish after short/long rest), as for rogue it give you higher sneak attack dice + give you better skills that can be used outside combat.

Both path great just depend what you prefer to get first.