Assassin's Creed Odyssey

[ImperiousLeader]

Didn't see a thread, so I'll start one. What are people thinking of the most RPGish of the Assassin's Creed series, so far?

This is my first Assassin's Creed, but as a fan of Bioware and Bethesda RPGs, I'm really digging Odyssey. Ancient Greece is just a lot of fun to explore, Athens was mindblowing. And sure, it's a repetitive cycle of sneaking and killing, it's been a lot of fun too.

[Sermil]

Ya, I'm playing it and enjoying it too.

As I mentioned on a different thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=23431656#post23431656), there are definitely times where I question "Why exactly am I killing these people?", but most of the time, I go kill some evil bandits or cultists and feel better about myself.

So far so fun. It's gorgeous. It also really rewards exploration, which I like -- not only is it big, it doesn't feel like a huge copy-and-paste job; every area is at least a little different, and there's usually something special you can find if you look hard.

[Rodin]

As someone who has lapsed from the series for a while...

1) Would I be totally lost, plotwise? I think the last I played was the first half or so of 3.

2) Have they made it so that enemies are an actual threat again? I really liked the combat in the very first game and was disheartened by the move from "Altair is very dangerous, but a dude in plate armor is still a dude in plate armor" to "Ezio is a superhuman killing machine who can kill a dozen guards in under 10 seconds".

3) What are these "RPG elements" that I've been hearing about?

4) Does the game itself play differently from the others? Part of the reason I stopped with 3 is that it felt identical to Brotherhood, which had felt identical to 2. Does the game have enough of an identity of its own that I won't get the same feeling of "been there, done that"?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

So they've been running with that same basic combat system of "block at the right time to auto-kill + chain-kill enemies" for quite a few games, until Origins (which Odyssey is based on), which changed back to something much more similar to AC1. It's more action-RPG-y where most enemies take a couple of hits to take down than the previous games. I haven't got Odyssey yet, but in Origins even at higher levels, fighting 5 or more guys at once could get challenging if a couple of them are elite, as even the weakest take 2-3 seconds to kill, during which your back is turned.

I think that somewhat answers your 2 and 4.

[ImperiousLeader]

As someone who has lapsed from the series for a while...

1) Would I be totally lost, plotwise? I think the last I played was the first half or so of 3.

Well, this is my first, and since the bulk of the game is focused on the past, I'm not having any trouble. So far (I'm in the middle of chapter 5 of the main story), there was one brief interlude to modern times, which references the past games, but you can blow right by it.


2) Have they made it so that enemies are an actual threat again? I really liked the combat in the very first game and was disheartened by the move from "Altair is very dangerous, but a dude in plate armor is still a dude in plate armor" to "Ezio is a superhuman killing machine who can kill a dozen guards in under 10 seconds".

3) What are these "RPG elements" that I've been hearing about?

4) Does the game itself play differently from the others? Part of the reason I stopped with 3 is that it felt identical to Brotherhood, which had felt identical to 2. Does the game have enough of an identity of its own that I won't get the same feeling of "been there, done that"?

Again, can't comment on previous AC games, but this feels more like a Bioware or Bethesda RPG in the AC universe. Dialogue choices, leveling up and gaining new powers ...

I definitely feel like an Ancient Greek superhero/demigod. I just hit level 23, game goes to level 50, and I no longer take falling damage, which has lead to some fun escapes. I had to jump off a mountain because three higher level mercenaries had me boxed in. You get ganged up on, or take on foes more than a couple levels higher than you, you will die, even on lower difficulty levels.

[Sermil]

As someone who has lapsed from the series for a while...

1) Would I be totally lost, plotwise? I think the last I played was the first half or so of 3.

No. There's only the thinnest of connections to previous ACs. I've never played any other AC and I'm not lost, because this is mostly Alexios or Kassandra's story.



2) Have they made it so that enemies are an actual threat again? I really liked the combat in the very first game and was disheartened by the move from "Altair is very dangerous, but a dude in plate armor is still a dude in plate armor" to "Ezio is a superhuman killing machine who can kill a dozen guards in under 10 seconds".


Depends on the enemy. I'm playing on Easy. But even so, if one of the bounty hunters who sometimes comes after you caught me unawares, I was in for a hard fight. If two of them showed up at the some time (common when your bounty is high), I lost 9 times out of 10.

Other fights are easier. But I've certainly died when an assassination went wrong and most of the fort attacked me. You do need to sneak around and make sure as many guards as possible are dead before you try to finish off the fort commander.



3) What are these "RPG elements" that I've been hearing about?


You get XP and you gain levels. Each level, you get more hit points and more damage. Plus you get skill points. You can spend your skill points on three basic trees: Hunter (improves your abilities with a bow), Warrior (improves your abilities in melee), and Assassin (improves your stealth killing). Some of these are passive but most are activated. There's lots of very powerful abilities, such as healing yourself, being able to assassinate from 30 meters away, firing 4 arrows at once, area-stun, etc. The very topmost abilities are like "fire arrows through walls" and "just straight-up turn invisible".

Mind you, you still need to fight. This isn't a turn-based Final Fantasy. You still need to dodge and parry and decide when to attack. (And you still need to aim well with the bow. I suck at bows.)




Again, can't comment on previous AC games, but this feels more like a Bioware or Bethesda RPG in the AC universe. Dialogue choices, leveling up and gaining new powers ...


To me, it's not as character-heavy as a Bioware game. Yes, there are dialog options, and some even make a difference, but it feels more action-RPG that something like Mass Effect or a JRPG. I certainly don't feel as close to anyone in the game as I did to Garrus Vakarian or Chie Satonaka.

[ImperiousLeader]

To me, it's not as character-heavy as a Bioware game. Yes, there are dialog options, and some even make a difference, but it feels more action-RPG that something like Mass Effect or a JRPG. I certainly don't feel as close to anyone in the game as I did to Garrus Vakarian or Chie Satonaka.

Oh, I definitely agree, though interacting with historical figures like Hippocrates, Sokrates and Alkibiades has been engrossing. Discussions with Sokrates have been both maddening and interesting, and Alkibiades is just kinda awesome. He's certainly a politician willing to ... um, use you, but I like how devious he is behind that party boy front.

But your ship lieutenants are just stats, which sucks, I'd be amused by having someone who's always trying to recalibrate the ship's ram. I always need a Garrus Vakarian.

[danzibr]

How's the archery system in this game?

[Rodin]

So, this thread has convinced me to try it.

..which immediately lead to the game not launching because Uplay didn't work, so 20 minutes of troubleshooting followed by a reinstall.

...and as soon as I do manage to launch the game, it tells me my graphics drivers need updating, so I have to launch GeForce Experience and sit through all their ads while I get a driver update.

Not an auspicious start. I am reminded why I almost exclusively play indie games on PC these days. Shoulda done PS4 even if it would cost me the extra 15-20 bucks for the UK store.

[Sajiri]

I got the game the day it came out, although I think Im only around lvl 15 thanks to work and lack of time to play. I had played the original AC games up to Brotherhood, and then AC4, but I am not particularly lost with the plot. The 'present' story is a direct sequel Origins but its not too hard to figure out what's going on, and there are some logs if you look around that I think fill you in on what went on in that game. The historical parts of Odyssey are set before any of the other games, so you aren't going to be missing any lore from others there.

I am really enjoying the combat, I've gone all in on assassination and if you are sneaking you can easily oneshot all minor enemies, but if you get spotted and get in an open fight and surrounded you are in trouble. Anything above maybe 2 lvls higher than you can be a serious challenge, and enemies scale in level with you (although there are still minimum lvls for areas you have to reach first).

Also, I love Kassandra. The cutscene where you finally confront the Cyclops (thats a name, not the mythical creature) had me laughing like mad.

[Rodin]

Initial impressions (after the 45 minutes or so of actually trying to get the game to run) have been very positive. Combat feels like Assassin's Creed meets Dark Souls, and my initial murderization at the hands of early enemies has convinced me that you are no longer as OP as Ezio was. Exploration mode is pretty neat too, and I'm loving the hawk.

Only complaint so far is the bloody wolves, which have been like cliff racers. Stop on the road to use my hawk for scouting? Wolf to the face. Cross over a hill to save time? Pack of wolves in the bushes. Climb up a wooden tower to spy out a bandit camp? When I un-zoom, wolves circling the bottom of the tower. Sneak into said bandit camp? I'm no longer visible, so of course I wind up watching a pitched battle between the bandits and the wolves.

[huttj509]

So, this thread has convinced me to try it.

..which immediately lead to the game not launching because Uplay didn't work, so 20 minutes of troubleshooting followed by a reinstall.

...and as soon as I do manage to launch the game, it tells me my graphics drivers need updating, so I have to launch GeForce Experience and sit through all their ads while I get a driver update.

Not an auspicious start. I am reminded why I almost exclusively play indie games on PC these days. Shoulda done PS4 even if it would cost me the extra 15-20 bucks for the UK store.

Meanwhile I have an i5 760 processor, which the 700 series of processors won't run it... first time I've done a steam refund.

[RazorChain]

I'm having tons of fun. Wasn't a big AC fan to start with but spent a good time on Black Flag.

Currently I'm level 28 in chapter 5. I'm playing hard difficulty and that leads to tough fights, but there is nothing more satisfying than luring your enemies up to a high place just to scream "THIS IS SPARTA" and kick them to their demise. Had a really tough fight taking out a fort where a couple of mercenaries showed up because of my wanted level, both of them were a level or two higher than me and I had to use my spartan cunning to take them out.

Another thing I'm enjoying is the different weapon sets, suddenly I find myself with an epic club or an legendary staff and as I don't have resources to keep my legendaries upgraded to my level I have to adapt to the weapon at hand. When you unlock your second weapon set you can adapt on the fly, having one slow and heavy weapon that knocks people down and one quick when that is tactically appropriate.

Another thing is that if you aren't happy with your abilities you can just respec for some drachmae

[Sermil]

So, question for people playing as Alexios:


When I'm playing as Kassandra, I'm the older sister of Alexios, who was dropped off the mountain side as an infant. He was an infant but I was a young girl (7 years old, maybe?) at the time of the drop.

If you play as Alexios, are you the older brother of Kassandra, who is dropped off the mountain as an infant? Or is Kassandra always the first-born?

[ImperiousLeader]

So, question for people playing as Alexios:


When I'm playing as Kassandra, I'm the older sister of Alexios, who was dropped off the mountain side as an infant. He was an infant but I was a young girl (7 years old, maybe?) at the time of the drop.

If you play as Alexios, are you the older brother of Kassandra, who is dropped off the mountain as an infant? Or is Kassandra always the first-born?


Yeah, you play the older sibling, regardless of who you pick. Play as Alexios, he's the older brother, play as Kassandra, she is the older sister.

Speaking of which, I know Kassandra is considered the "canon" protagonist, or at least will be in the novelization, and she's gotten a lot of praise for her VA. And I can't disagree, but I do want it noted that Alexios' VA is also pretty darn good, he's gotten a few guffaws from me, and ... I just got to Naxos and had some genuine tears.

[Rodin]

So, I wanted to return to this thread and give a proper review. Because this game has me confused on how I feel about it more than any game since...well, ever. I don't really want to spoiler my whole post, so fair warning - I'm not going into specifics but I'm also not avoiding basic plot information anyone with a reasonable amount of playtime into the game would know about.

The gameplay remains really fun, but there's a constant feeling of two elephants in the room while I'm playing.

1) Is it just me, or does Odyssey feel like it's ashamed to be an Assassin's Creed game? There's about a minute's worth of exposition right at the start that feels like it was kept intentionally vague, and then a few minutes more later. And that's really it for the meta plot of Assassins vs Templars - or at least as much as I've seen after 20+ hours of playing the game. There is no ancient order of Assassins, since they haven't been invented yet. The iconic white robes are nowhere to be seen. Even staples like the hidden blade are missing. If you took the future tech out and made the spear magical, you could easily just call the game Kassandra's Odyssey and set it in mythological Greece. I doubt anybody would notice.

The main plot is very interesting, but the focus hasn't been on assassinations. Thinking back on what I've done so far, I believe there is exactly two actual assassinations in the style of previous games in the series, where you are assigned a person to assassinate and then work to arrange it. The cultist minigame is interesting, but it lacks the personal connection of previous games. There's no cutscene introducing each cultist and showing what they stand for, and even high ranking cultists have gone down without a word or any character development outside of a text blurb on their lore page. There's a couple who have had quests associated with them, and those ARE interesting. Overall though, the game feels much more like someone wanted to do Shadow of War but didn't want to be shackled by the Middle Earth setting.

And that brings me to...

2) The game feels like it was designed by multiple different teams...that aren't talking to one another.

The main meat of the game is great - memorable characters, decent plot, and I'm totally sold on the idea of following an "Odyssey" across the ancient world with the familial themes that implies. But then there's all these other games stacked on top of that:

There's the "Shadow of War" team, that takes the conquest mechanics out of that game and does a half-assed version of it along with an imitation Nemesis system that is equally shallow. There's no point to it that I can see, no reason given to support Sparta over Athens. No benefit to doing so as faction reputation doesn't seem to be a thing. I've helped Athens take over half the Greek world at this point and wandering into the wrong area in Athens will still get me skewered instantly. I went to do a region battle last night and accidentally stabbed a dude that walked between me and the company commander because the button to talk is the same as the assassinate button.

There's the "Black Flag" team, which puts loads of focus on ship-to-ship combat but again gives no reason to care. You need to do some amount of it to upgrade your ship, I guess? There's no plot associated with it that I can see. It's just sort of...there. You can easily outsail anyone you want to run away from, and your ship is tough enough that sailing past ships to get to your destination is an easy task. The ship combat seems to be there expressly so you can upgrade your ship and do more ship combat, but has no bearing on the game apart from that.

And then there's what I call the "general AAA open-world BS" team. Bandit camps. Animal dens. And "Radiant" quests. This last is most galling, because its so poorly hidden. For all Fallout 4's faults, I was deeply impressed by how it integrated Radiant quests. I did a whole chain of them for the Railroad before I caught on what was happening, and only then could I spot them elsewhere in the game. Odyssey doesn't even try to hide it, leading to nonsense conversations like the below:

Kassandra: What can I help you with?
Person: [Faction] is making my life hell! Help me Mystios!
Kassandra: Do you want them killed? (Note the lack of specifics in response, to hide them not recording specific voice lines)
Person: I want them all killed. (Again, lack of specifics).

Quest return:

Kassandra: I did that thing you wanted. (No specifics, just literally "I'm back, jobs done")
Person: Bless you Mystios!
Kassandra: Pay me.
Person: Here's your payment.

It's so obvious that it's painful. Every "impact quest" has played out like this, every "timed quest", and the bulletin board quests as well. Unless there's an exclamation mark on the map, it isn't a "real" quest and will have this horribly stilted dialogue written into it. It's horrible.

--------

And that's why I'm so conflicted on this game. The Greek world they've built is beautiful, and I love exploring it. The main quest is interesting, and the combat enjoyable if a bit barebones for someone coming from playing the likes of Dark Souls, Horizon: Zero Dawn, and Spiderman. But so much of the game feels hollow, and the overall impression I'm left with is laziness. It sounds insane to say that for a game world as massive as this one, but it's obvious that various aspects of this game were farmed out to different teams who didn't work together on the overall project. The reminders you're playing a mass-market game are everywhere because they didn't even try to hide it. They needed ship combat for Black Flag fans, so it's there, no matter how out of place it feels. Shadow of War was critically acclaimed, so it has to have a system similar to that, no matter that Kassandra has no reason to care about the balance of power in Greece. And you have to have a steady stream of generic sidequests of the "twenty bear asses" (or in this case kill X soldiers), so that's there too. It's pretty soul-destroying to see how naked the components of this game have been left. They should be integrated into the game. The Templars should be manipulating things so that you want particular factions to win control of certain regions, rather than making the decision based on "what loot do I want?" The Mercenaries should be fleshed out and woven into that system, so that you meet them again and again like in Shadow of War. And the random questing should be tied into some sort of reputation system to give a character incentive other than "loooot".

So, I think I may be forced to abandon much of the game. Go to the different areas, hit the exclamation point quests that are actually developed, and then move straight on to the main quest. Because the rest of the game just feels like empty calories. And that's a damn shame, because with a bit more work it could have been stunning. Either that, or you could have gotten about 3 solid games out of the content on display here.

[ImperiousLeader]

Every "impact quest" has played out like this, every "timed quest", and the bulletin board quests as well. Unless there's an exclamation mark on the map, it isn't a "real" quest and will have this horribly stilted dialogue written into it. It's horrible.

I have to partially disagree. Yes, a lot of the "Go and kill those things" quests have had more stilted dialogue, but the courier quests, ie. the "Go take this to that person" have actually been kinda interesting.

One that I have had once or twice started with a discussion of whether a girl who shelters a deserter should also be put to death. Another had me deliver a letter to a suicidal soldier from a concerned citizen. A third was, "could you deliver these plants to a witch, because if she comes here to pick them herself, her provocative dancing will distract my husband." That one I found especially amusing because it did have Alexios commenting that he's not sure about killing someone for provocative dancing, because I've certainly had him murder for less than that.

As for the sub-systems ... I guess here's where the fact that I don't play a lot of games is an advantage ... because I haven't played any other Assassin's Creed games, or Shadow of War. So I am enjoying the naval combat, and hunting specific mercenaries for their stuff. The scenery of Ancient Greece is so gorgeous that I'm enjoying just wandering around ... if it weren't for some of those darned boars and lynx attacking me when I'm trying to take in the sights.

That and I think the central plot of this open-world RPG has been one of the better ones I've played. When I compare the main story with Skyrim, Fallout 4 or Dragon Age: Inquisition ... this has been one of the ones that I'm legitimately interested in finishing.

That's not to say I don't have reservations. I refuse to pay any of the microtransactions, and I think the grinding they've introduced into the game to push you into getting them is offensive. Yeah, there's a sameness to the game. While I'm interested in future story content, I'm not sure if I'd want to start the game over. The "romances" are thin and some are even a little questionable.

But I'm still invested, looking forward to bringing the story to a close, and having a blast playing.

[Rodin]

I have to partially disagree. Yes, a lot of the "Go and kill those things" quests have had more stilted dialogue, but the courier quests, ie. the "Go take this to that person" have actually been kinda interesting.

One that I have had once or twice started with a discussion of whether a girl who shelters a deserter should also be put to death. Another had me deliver a letter to a suicidal soldier from a concerned citizen. A third was, "could you deliver these plants to a witch, because if she comes here to pick them herself, her provocative dancing will distract my husband." That one I found especially amusing because it did have Alexios commenting that he's not sure about killing someone for provocative dancing, because I've certainly had him murder for less than that.



See, this is why I get so conflicted, because I have had some of those as well - and some of them do have unique dialogue for Kassandra, while others will have generic "stock" responses that get re-used endlessly. It's bizarre - surely putting the extra dialogue in for those quests wouldn't have been that hard?



As for the sub-systems ... I guess here's where the fact that I don't play a lot of games is an advantage ... because I haven't played any other Assassin's Creed games, or Shadow of War. So I am enjoying the naval combat, and hunting specific mercenaries for their stuff. The scenery of Ancient Greece is so gorgeous that I'm enjoying just wandering around ... if it weren't for some of those darned boars and lynx attacking me when I'm trying to take in the sights.


The animals are easily the worst part of the game. They're hyper-aggressive, have high detection range (I've had bears sniff me out of full stealth in bushes), and will NOT stop chasing you. I had one point where I found I couldn't get out of combat because a boar at the top of a cliff I had dived off was just stood several hundred feet above me snarling. They're also FAR more dangerous than any other enemy - I once cleared an entire Spartan camp by releasing a couple of lions they had in cages. The lions killed the entire camp including the elites with no effort whatsoever.

I would like to shout out whoever designed the world though. The job they did in re-creating ancient Greece is amazing.



That and I think the central plot of this open-world RPG has been one of the better ones I've played. When I compare the main story with Skyrim, Fallout 4 or Dragon Age: Inquisition ... this has been one of the ones that I'm legitimately interested in finishing.


And this is definitely the best part. I just hit the Minotaur quest, and it had me rolling with laughter by the end. The main quest itself is very interesting (even though I greatly dispute the association with Assassin's Creed), and pursuing the conclusion is definitely on my agenda once I overcome my usual open-world ADD.

I think Spiderman still has it beat, plotwise, but obviously the genres are different enough that it's kind of an apples and oranges comparison.



That's not to say I don't have reservations. I refuse to pay any of the microtransactions, and I think the grinding they've introduced into the game to push you into getting them is offensive. Yeah, there's a sameness to the game. While I'm interested in future story content, I'm not sure if I'd want to start the game over. The "romances" are thin and some are even a little questionable.


The push for the micro-transactions is irritating as always, but I haven't really noticed any grinding required thus far. I am always over-leveled for the main quest by the time I get there, and I just went to an area that was listed at 4 levels above me and began making my way through it with little difficulty. I am just on Normal though.

The romances though...ye gods. I kept having to turn down romance options that were obviously inappropriate, like responding to a sob story about someone's sick father with "that's neat, wanna jump in bed??". The romance dialogue is absolutely cringe-worthy.



But I'm still invested, looking forward to bringing the story to a close, and having a blast playing.

I've been enjoying it more now that I know to ignore the fluff and just play in bursts. Exclamation mark quests are always worthwhile, impact quests listen to them and see what the quality is, and just plain stay away from most of the hourglass quests. If I want to forget the quest and murder a load of Spartans, spend a bit of time doing that and accept that there's no real reward for doing so. The ship combat is not for me I think, but seems pretty optional apart from a few cultists that are seagoing.

I'm about to enter the Arena for the first time, and I have high hopes. The dude who introduced it is one of the more interesting characters I've encountered thus far.

[Beleriphon]

One of the reviews I found was pretty funny, with the complaint being the Greek accents were terrible. Never mind that the guy that provide Alexios' voice is Greek and lives in Greece. While Kassandra's voice is provided by a Canadian of Greek descent.

The only one that gets me is Elpenor, and its only because I know he's supposed to look like somebody, but I can't put my finger on it.

[RazorChain]

I've just happily ignored the radiant quests and focused on the main and side quests which are interesting. I've finished the Odyssey questline and have like 10 cultists left and have done the 1st part of the Atlantis quest.

Even then I've clocked almost 150 hours as sometimes I just get carried away exploring or murdering mercs when I have high bounty rating.

Favorite quote

When Testikles the pankration champion is asked about his strategy for the upcoming Olympics.

"Strategy? Who needs strategy when you are strong enough to beat your opponents to pulp?"