Monks and gods in the Realms

[Millstone85]

My next character is going to be a wood elven kensei in Forgotten Realms.

I think that, were it a different setting, I wouldn't necessarily have to play the monk as a religious class. Some monks could just be martial artists who use the magic of ki. Of course, the character could still be religious independently from his class.

But after reading SCAG and playing the BG saga, it seems to me that monks in the Realms are very much, well, monks. They are organized in orders dedicated to one or another god, much like clerics are.

This does not bother me. On the contrary, I am interested in a paradox I see here. This is an occasion to play a character whose magic isn't considered profane, yet is technically even further removed from being plugged on a god than an arcane spellcaster is.

As a result, I might manage to remain serious while having this character talk about the teachings of his god, the understanding of one's body, mind and soul that comes from them, and the power it unlocks.

Still a pretty big challenge, as I am completely nonspiritual IRL. This is where you come in. Can you give me any advice on playing such a character? I hope this isn't once again too open a question to start a thread on.

My kensei will come from a monastery dedicated to Solonor, the elven god of archery. Pretty sympathetic element of the Seldarine, as far as I can tell.

[Nifft]

If you're in the Realms, then you're either religious or you're objectively wrong.

[Naanomi]

The most famous Faerun monk organizations are religious... but not all monks are (or no more so than just having a Patron God Forgotten Realms Style) especially if you go further out to Shou or Kara-Tur

[Nifft]

The most famous Faerun monk organizations are religious... but not all monks are (or no more so than just having a Patron God Forgotten Realms Style) especially if you go further out to Shou or Kara-Tur

Yeah, good point.

Thinking about the IWD games, there's the Old Order (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Order), which was not religious as a whole... though again, I'd expect any individual member to be religious, because the setting promotes religion rather unequivocally.

[Unoriginal]

If you're in the Realms, then you're either religious or you're objectively wrong.

If you're in the Realms, you're either religious or just another brick in the wall.


Joke aside, 5e removed most of the stupidity. Now you don't get an eternal punishment just for not following any god.



But after reading SCAG and playing the BG saga, it seems to me that monks in the Realms are very much, well, monks. They are organized in orders dedicated to one or another god, much like clerics are.

This does not bother me. On the contrary, I am interested in a paradox I see here. This is an occasion to play a character whose magic isn't considered profane, yet is technically even further removed from being plugged on a god than an arcane spellcaster is.

In Dragon Heist, one of the NPCs has for noted particularity to be from a school of martial arts combining ki and Cleric magic. It is also noted that practitioners of said school are extremely rare, and those who try to become the NPC's students don't have any luck.



As a result, I might manage to remain serious while having this character talk about the teachings of his god, the understanding of one's body, mind and soul that comes from them, and the power it unlocks.

Still a pretty big challenge, as I am completely nonspiritual IRL. This is where you come in. Can you give me any advice on playing such a character? I hope this isn't once again too open a question to start a thread on.

My kensei will come from a monastery dedicated to Solonor, the elven god of archery. Pretty sympathetic element of the Seldarine, as far as I can tell.

I think that, to answer this question, first you need to answer those: what are gods in FR, what are the gods for the elves, and what are gods for your character?

For many beings, gods are, in a way, platonic ideals, with a personality. Chormatic dragons are powerful, greedy and imposing, but Tiamat is the most powerful, greedy and imposing. Dwarf smiths respect smiths, and Moradin is the most smith of them all. Asmodeus is the pinacle of his particular brand of evil. Waukeen is peerless in her mastery of economy. Maglubiyet didn't create the goblinoids, he showed up one day, slaughtered and enslaved the pantheons of the goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears, put those species under his heel, and took whatever he wanted... which is such an extreme example of goblinoid-hood that it becomes kind of obvious why he ended up as their god. Some mortals achieved godhood or demigodhood by reaching one of those ideals.

In other words, from the most tyrannical petty god to the most generous of the major deities, gods are generally a force of inspiration, of ambition. They are entities who are greater than you, which both can be reassuring and motivating to do better.

For the elves, the situation is more... complicated.

Corellon doesn't provide direction for the elves. Corellon's only ideal is "be yourself", and they do so by being themselves at 200% every single moment of existence... which leaves zero room to do things that they are not, like being a parent. Corellon didn't want the elves, and in a way the elves are the result of the first time that Corellon wasn't themselves, as Gruumsh was the first to make Corellon experience fear and wounds, forcing the entity to change -truly change, evolve, not just transforming to something on a whim in a form that was still them at heart. And so, all elves were demigods. Individuals. And while Corellon supported individuality with benevolence... they had no idea nor care about what to do with those newly created individuals. And so they did nothing except continuing being themselves and roaming the universe, which the elves did too. But it ultimately proved so unbearable for the elves that they preferred renouncing their demigodhood than keeping being eternally morphable but un-evolving entities. And so they did, and from now on all elves just keep reincarnating.

The elf gods who aren't Corellon where simply some of them that Corellon singled out when they were hanging out, which ended up being a formative, personality defining experience. And with personality came the platonic ideal mortals can aspire to. To put this in perspective: if here was a Dwarf God of Archery, it would be because they were a dwarf mortal or god who did so great with a bow they expended into the role, while for the Elf God of Archery, it's more that this proto-entity reduced themselves until they were this role more than the infinity of possibilities their mutable state offered.

Now, without bragging, I think this cover the first two questions. The question that's left, only you can answer. What are the gods for your character?

[Naanomi]

You have choices beyond worshiper and brick... you could tie yourself to another non-God entity and end up with the demons or devils... or find a way off plane before you die (spelljamming or planeshifting... or end up in the Far Plane). You could also always ascend mortality; end up as an undead, or bind your soul to something else... or of course just become a God yourself. Some folks end up working in the Fugue Plane as well, or become expelled from reality or the timeline in some way.

Plus, all children get a free pass to Lunia, and all animals (even intelligent ones) default to the Beastlands even if they lack a Patron

[Unoriginal]

You have choices beyond worshiper and brick... you could tie yourself to another non-God entity and end up with the demons or devils... or find a way off plane before you die (spelljamming or planeshifting... or end up in the Far Plane). You could also always ascend mortality; end up as an undead, or bind your soul to something else... or of course just become a God yourself. Some folks end up working in the Fugue Plane as well

Also unless you're a complete *********** you're not getting in the wall either.

[Naanomi]

Also unless you're a complete *********** you're not getting in the wall either.
Or are very unlucky (your patron god dies and you die before someone takes the portfolio); or unfortunetly ignorant (and worship a Old One or something thinking it is a God)

[Unoriginal]

Or are very unlucky (your patron god dies and you die before someone takes the portfolio); or unfortunetly ignorant (and worship a Old One or something thinking it is a God)

They changed that.

[Callak_Remier]

If you're in the Realms, then you're either religious or you're objectively wrong.

While atheists exist within the realms they are very aware that the gods are real.

Personally at my table if you choose to not venerate a god that's fine you'll just find yourself being targeted by Infernal beings since you have no innate protections

[Millstone85]

The most famous Faerun monk organizations are religious... but not all monks are (or no more so than just having a Patron God Forgotten Realms Style) especially if you go further out to Shou or Kara-TurI didn't know that.

My kensei will be from an independent monastery of my invention, called Quarlanielandi ("Soul Arrow"). I will still model it on those famous center-Faerûn orders.


If you're in the Realms, then you're either religious or you're objectively wrong.
If you're in the Realms, you're either religious or just another brick in the wall.This could be the "And when everyone is X, no one will be" conundrum of The Incredibles fame. Everybody knows that the gods exist, that you have to worship them, and that you have to pick one to worship more than the others (or whatever the Wall-of-the-Faithless rules currently are). It might be difficult to make a character stand out as religious in such a context. :smallannoyed:


To put this in perspective: if here was a Dwarf God of Archery, it would be because they were a dwarf mortal or god who did so great with a bow they expended into the role, while for the Elf God of Archery, it's more that this proto-entity reduced themselves until they were this role more than the infinity of possibilities their mutable state offered.
The question that's left, only you can answer. What are the gods for your character?I really like your analysis. Here is what I have in mind.

Quarlanielandi is a place where wood and wild elven tribes send some of their warriors to study the way of the kensei. All these tribes hold beliefs that honor both the Seldarine and the First Circle, often together (like Solonor being represented next to the totem spirit Wolf). They have a more positive outlook on reincarnation than most other elves. Rather than a temporary respite before their souls are cast away once again, they see their time in Arvandor as a chance to contemplate the infinite possibilities of life before their next rebirth in the Material, where such possibilities become realities. The gods of the Seldarine went through a rebirth of their own so they could act as guides to living elves as they walk different paths.

My character, whose name is Naeren Mellerelel, would fully embrace these beliefs.

[Naanomi]

They changed that.
Where is the most updated stance in all this? I know 4e monkied with it, but I’m hesitant to blanket accept that lore given how much they seem to have thrown out