OOC(Out Of Combat) with a big party.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Helo guys :)

I am looking for sulotions for my DM.

We are a 7 players party and it is very hard to do OOC.

The only idea I have for now is to make a table and everyone will only talk in his turn.

I am looking for more sulotions as the DM didn't like it.

[ad_hoc]

Split into 2 groups.

D&D is a social game. Don't try to take the social out of it.

That or play Werewolf I guess.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Split into 2 groups.

D&D is a social game. Don't try to take the social out of it.

That or play Werewolf I guess.

But we don't want to split it.

We can play and have a lot of fun but me and the DM are looking for a way to make it easier.

[ad_hoc]

But we don't want to split it.

We can play and have a lot of fun but me and the DM are looking for a way to make it easier.

If you don't want to split it then live with the consequences.

Telling everyone to shut up isn't a good time for me.

[Eradis]

Have you tried playing with two game masters? You could still be at the same table and put a bit more order in the group. At least in theory. I really never played a game with more than one game master (always been curious on how this works).

Otherwise, I would probably ask for the players to whisper if they are going out of character while it's not their turn. If they can pay enough attention on what's going on regardless, they should be able to keep the pace anyway.

Last option I can think of right now is simply to slow down the pace of the game so the story of the people you play with can be heard by all and the fantasy story you are all playing can be too. This means pausing the session just about every single time someone has to say something.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

If you don't want to split it then live with the consequences.

Telling everyone to shut up isn't a good time for me.

Why do you go there?

Nobody is talling no one to shut up.

For now we are just talking when we have quite or when someone ask if some want to say something before he do something with great impact.

The problem is that it take to long to play like this so I ask here for help.

[Unoriginal]

The problem is that it take to long to play like this so I ask here for help.

Well the problem is that there is no real solution. A big group means that it'll take a long time to play.

[ImproperJustice]

Some things that have helped us when we get big:

Roll initiative in advance and designate someone as initiative caller. They announce the rounds and who is on deck.

Allow Players to make attack rolls and damage rolls in advance when they are “on deck”.
Roll both at the same time.

Have a quartermaster who keeps track of all treasure gained by the party. Distribute when the party rests.

If need be, have the party sit clockwise in initiative order.

Have PCs run extras (when needed).

[Kadesh]

Why do you go there?

Nobody is talling no one to shut up.

For now we are just talking when we have quite or when someone ask if some want to say something before he do something with great impact.

The problem is that it take to long to play like this so I ask here for help.
What OOC are you doing in any case that's taking so long. If people want to do Out of Character stuff, they need to leave the table, so as not to detract from the In Character stuff.

The game is built for 4 people. Maybe 5 people can at a push, but it begins to break down when you get to 6. The more people you have at the table, the more some people will feel left out, the more some people who want to hog the limelight will feel that they do not get enough, and the more some people who are already quiet will not have the opportunity to join in, or make themselves heard over the increasing number of loud mouths in the group.

It's hard enough with 4-5 people to play combats - some people can run up to a creature, roll for Shield Bash, Attack, Attack, and add the bonus damage they've got from their buff, and then there are others who have Hasted Action Surges with Multiple Reactions and Bonus Actions with resources expended on a hit that the um and arr about.

And when you have 7 people who all have their characters who want to do specific things that allows them some agency within the campaign on top of the already planned story line, you've got much more additional work to manage that appropriately.

[Laserlight]

Seven talkative players...are you all okay with only getting through one, maybe two encounters per session?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Have you tried playing with two game masters? You could still be at the same table and put a bit more order in the group. At least in theory. I really never played a game with more than one game master (always been curious on how this works).

Otherwise, I would probably ask for the players to whisper if they are going out of character while it's not their turn. If they can pay enough attention on what's going on regardless, they should be able to keep the pace anyway.

Last option I can think of right now is simply to slow down the pace of the game so the story of the people you play with can be heard by all and the fantasy story you are all playing can be too. This means pausing the session just about every single time someone has to say something.
I don't understand how can you play with 2 GMs, after all the world exsist in the head on one of them.

Well the problem is that there is no real solution. A big group means that it'll take a long time to play.
I know, but order will make it faster because it will end the times when two or more people try to talk in the same time.


Some things that have helped us when we get big:

Roll initiative in advance and designate someone as initiative caller. They announce the rounds and who is on deck.

Allow Players to make attack rolls and damage rolls in advance when they are “on deck”.
Roll both at the same time.

Have a quartermaster who keeps track of all treasure gained by the party. Distribute when the party rests.

If need be, have the party sit clockwise in initiative order.

Have PCs run extras (when needed).
We alredy doing it all(I don't know what do you mean by "Have PCs run extras) and we also have a rule guy(that me).
We even do it in a party of 3-4 those rules are always needed.

What OOC are you doing in any case that's taking so long. If people want to do Out of Character stuff, they need to leave the table, so as not to detract from the In Character stuff.

The game is built for 4 people. Maybe 5 people can at a push, but it begins to break down when you get to 6. The more people you have at the table, the more some people will feel left out, the more some people who want to hog the limelight will feel that they do not get enough, and the more some people who are already quiet will not have the opportunity to join in, or make themselves heard over the increasing number of loud mouths in the group.

It's hard enough with 4-5 people to play combats - some people can run up to a creature, roll for Shield Bash, Attack, Attack, and add the bonus damage they've got from their buff, and then there are others who have Hasted Action Surges with Multiple Reactions and Bonus Actions with resources expended on a hit that the um and arr about.

And when you have 7 people who all have their characters who want to do specific things that allows them some agency within the campaign on top of the already planned story line, you've got much more additional work to manage that appropriately.
I was useing OOC for Out Of Combat, I will edit it.

Seven talkative players...are you all okay with only getting through one, maybe two encounters per session?
No, but we are OK with only 0-10 fight in a session.

[Keravath]

Why do you go there?

For now we are just talking when we have quite or when someone ask if some want to say something before he do something with great impact.

The problem is that it take to long to play like this so I ask here for help.

From your comment, I am not sure the problem is the OOC but just the amount of time it takes to work through seven players each taking their own actions.

I don't think anyone wants to shut down chatting unless the DM is having trouble hearing the player who is talking. However, it is good for all the players to pay attention.

There are several ways to get things moving a bit quicker.

1) As mentioned maybe have one of the players assist the DM with initiative order. Use some sort of markers/list to keep track of order including the NPCs and monsters. Figuring out who comes next should take no time. Also, using some sort of token, put it where everyone can see so that they can tell when their turn is coming up.

2) Players need to try to decide their action in advance .. instead of only chatting waiting for their turn they should come up with a couple of ideas of what they want to do so that everyone doesn't have to wait while they think. Usually this is pretty easy to do if folks give it some thought.

3) When their turn comes try to be efficient rolling dice. I've seen a lot of folks do the following. Roll a d20 ... ask DM does it hit,wait for response ... search through the dice pile for the damage dice ... oh ... now for my extra attack ... pick up a d20 ... ask DM does it hit, wait for response ... search for damage dice again ... bonus action attack ... same thing. It is not fun for everyone else and takes a lot of time when added together searching for dice.

So prepare in advance ... If I am going to attack twice with eldritch blast with hex going for example ... I will have a d20,d10,d6 gathered, roll them all at the same time ... if it hits, add up the damage. Sometimes I will roll both sets at the same time for both attacks (colour coordinated to tell them apart) ... this means that all my attacks are resolved in a few seconds and it is on to the next player.

In addition, if you roll 5- or 15+ then you are pretty sure that 5- is a miss and 15+ after your modifiers .. especially if there have been a few rounds and you know what numbers other have been rolling. Still check with the DM but saying 22 to hit, and then giving the damage from the pre-rollled damage dice makes the round go much quicker. (After a round or two, the DM could just let the players know what the AC is and they can then figure out for themselves if they hit or miss).

4) If you are chatting, try to NOT distract the player whose turn it is or the DM. Let them play it out since it will slow the table for everyone.

I frequently play AL with tables of 6 or 7 characters and it goes reasonably well despite the larger numbers. However, when you are not in combat, it can be important for the noisy outgoing folks to realize that they need to give the quieter shy folks a chance to say things as well so that everyone has a good time. The DM can help with this by making sure to ask everyone if they would like to do something.

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LOL ... while I was writing this the OP clarified OOC to mean out of combat rather than out of character (which is what I had thought was meant).

If you are out of combat, then the DM is narrating and mediating social or exploration situations where the characters use skills and take general actions in response to plot elements.

The key here is that (as I mentioned at the end), everyone has to have a chance to express themselves. Out of combat is a lot less structured and individual personality of both the player and character are much bigger factors. The important element here is that the DM has to step in when needed to make sure that the quieter players are heard. The best way to do this is to go around the table ... even if one or two players are trying to make themselves heard ... it is important to get everyone involved.

Also it is up to the DM to limit social situations in which only one or two characters completely dominate the interactions. These are set up by the DM and he needs to factor in the characters so that the table doesn't spend an hour talking to an innkeeper with only one or two characters doing all the talking. If that is the case, then the DM needs to give the party the information it needs in an interesting way and then move on so that other characters can get involved.

[Erys]

That is kind of odd; I often run parties between 6 to 8 people and have never had issue with 'out of combat time'; IN combat however... even when players are on top of their game and know what actions they intend to use before their turn, combat is the real time slayer from my experience.

[Chaosmancer]

Yeah for out of combat my best solution has always been going around the table. It really helps if the players form groups, but I've had times when everyone scatters.

Also, just accept some sessions will be shopping episodes or relegate it to quick lists instead of interacting with NPCs. But I've never found a way to have seven people pursue seven different goals and have meaningful scenes without it taking an hour or two IRL.

[PracticalM]

Without specific behaviors, there is no way to fix this or even know if it needs to be fixed.

Dungeons and Dragons was designed to handle any number of players even if the current version prefers to have 4-6 players. I often have 9-12 players at the table and no one is expressing any problems and they still come and bring more people.

1. Old School solution is to have a party leader. It can be voted on each time but the Gamemaster only lets the party leader decide which of the many different actions are going to happen. The leader can divide up the tasks and let it happen.

2. Stop the me too rolls or actions. One player searches rolls poorly and then everyone feels that have to roll. Stop letting people use the roll result to "know" they need to make another attempt.

3. The Gamemaster can shift Social and Exploration focus each session to different players so everyone gets a chance. The main reason people think D&D is only for parties of 4 is because it is hard to shine in an ensemble cast. As long as people know their turn is coming it may be easier to manage.

4. Having larger groups like this can encourage players to split the party. In non-combat situations some of this can be handled between sessions with emails or forum discussions.

All in all the original post had no information on the specifics of the problem or even if there was a problem so everyone seems to be answering based on their own interpretations.

[Eradis]

I don't understand how can you play with 2 GMs, after all the world exsist in the head on one of them.

I'm not sure either, but I've seen several people talking about adding game masters to their games. I assume that it is for modules or really well planned co-created games.

[TheMoxiousOne]

Half of the fun in social encounters is the raw, organic chaos that comes from it. One thing my GM did was split the party into two, simultaneous encounters, even the important ones. For instance. We had nine players in one campaign, and we have 4 decently-social characters that would go talk with Baron So-and-so about the whatsit we needed to get from the whosit, while the other group either went around town asking questions, shopping, or skulking around the grounds of the baron's home if we suspected their involvement. This, combined with rotating scenes between key topic points or events, allowed for a more natural, movie-esque flow that was little stress on the GM, and gave non-participating players a chance to get snacks, or even take notes to skip through roleplaying out the "here's what we did; what did you guys do" part of moving back to the action. Every GM has a different style, but that is what worked for us, and we didn't have a lot of people in our group insisting on all fighting, all the time (even if the barbarian did get antsy and start fights in the tavern regularly! :smallsigh:)

[Toofey]

Let things progress normally until it becomes a problem, at which point you roll initiative and the players get focus for role playing in the order the initiative goes (I set a timer to 3-5 minutes for this but I specifically do not tell the players this as they then take the entire amount of "their" time and it ends up slowing things down.)

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Thank you guys for all the answers, I don't have time to addres them all but I do read them and it help me a lot :)

[Arelai]

Here’s the deal:

If you have 8 people(including the DM), each hour you play divided between those people means everyone gets 7.5 minutes each hour. AND that’s only if the DM takes 7.5 minutes of an hour to do everything being a DM entails.

You play for less than 7 minutes each hour in a 7 player party.

So, if you play for 3 hours-YOU are only playing for 21 minutes of those THREE HOURS.

So...sack up and split the group.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Here’s the deal:

If you have 8 people(including the DM), each hour you play divided between those people means everyone gets 7.5 minutes each hour. AND that’s only if the DM takes 7.5 minutes of an hour to do everything being a DM entails.

You play for less than 7 minutes each hour in a 7 player party.

So, if you play for 3 hours-YOU are only playing for 21 minutes of those THREE HOURS.

So...sack up and split the group.

Man, I am really soory but I don't need a solution like this.

It will hurt all the group, we will be happier with 21 minutes in rhree hours.

Reply num 3 have this information.

[Safety Sword]

Here’s the deal:

If you have 8 people(including the DM), each hour you play divided between those people means everyone gets 7.5 minutes each hour. AND that’s only if the DM takes 7.5 minutes of an hour to do everything being a DM entails.

You play for less than 7 minutes each hour in a 7 player party.

So, if you play for 3 hours-YOU are only playing for 21 minutes of those THREE HOURS.

So...sack up and split the group.

This is a frankly terrible way to look at role playing. It's a group activity and the interaction of characters is what it's about. If you're constantly tapping your watch wanting "your time" of course you'll get annoyed.

Enjoy what other people do as well. It can be a lot of fun.

[ad_hoc]

This is a frankly terrible way to look at role playing. It's a group activity and the interaction of characters is what it's about. If you're constantly tapping your watch wanting "your time" of course you'll get annoyed.

Enjoy what other people do as well. It can be a lot of fun.

Where is the cut off then? At what point are you part of the audience?

Would you play in a 10 person group? 12? 20? Surely there is a point where you would say no more.

For me it's DM+5 players. Even that is pushing it, but it's nice to have the 5th when someone can't show up.

[Laserlight]

For Co-DMing, generally the assistant DM runs some of the monsters, or all the monsters if the DM is handling complicated terrain effects (eg you're fighting in a factory with conveyors and other moving parts).

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Where is the cut off then? At what point are you part of the audience?

Would you play in a 10 person group? 12? 20? Surely there is a point where you would say no more.

For me it's DM+5 players. Even that is pushing it, but it's nice to have the 5th when someone can't show up.

In every game, even in 1 on 1 you have time you are an audience(in 1 on 1 in when the DM talk).

I will not play with more then 7 players because some players are starting to disappear from the talking(some people have weak voice).

This is why I am looking for a solution.

[Chaosmancer]

Here’s the deal:

If you have 8 people(including the DM), each hour you play divided between those people means everyone gets 7.5 minutes each hour. AND that’s only if the DM takes 7.5 minutes of an hour to do everything being a DM entails.

You play for less than 7 minutes each hour in a 7 player party.

So, if you play for 3 hours-YOU are only playing for 21 minutes of those THREE HOURS.

So...sack up and split the group.

The barbarian and the bard use the ancient art of buddy cop. It is super effective. They combine their 21 and create 42 minutes. Both players double their time without taking from others. In other news the entire is entering the bar, anything can happen

Assuming that they will never break into smaller groups within the party is a bit much. You may hate tables with more than 5 players, but making a table of 7 or 8 work is possible if people are willing to be patient and understanding.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

For Co-DMing, generally the assistant DM runs some of the monsters, or all the monsters if the DM is handling complicated terrain effects (eg you're fighting in a factory with conveyors and other moving parts).

It ia very easy to just use a program for it.

We use roll20 for it.

We don't have any problem with combat, the combat is going fast with everyone knowing what he want to do and fast rolling.

The problem start when the combat end and we don't have a lot of combats(the characters personality make them avoid combat a lot of time and we have very good skill rolls).


I think that the players should help the DM if he need the help with stuff like the factory exsemple.

[ad_hoc]

In every game, even in 1 on 1 you have time you are an audience(in 1 on 1 in when the DM talk).

I will not play with more then 7 players because some players are starting to disappear from the talking(some people have weak voice).

This is why I am looking for a solution.

You've missed the point. It's about active vs passive engagement in the game.

As for a 'solution', you have been given it.

If someone comes in and asks for a solution about how to make their 5e game Candyland, then people are going to suggest to play Candyland.

Likewise, you come here asking about a thing inherent to large groups and want a 'fix', well, your 'problem' is part of the identity of a large group playing an RPG.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

The barbarian and the bard use the ancient art of buddy cop. It is super effective. They combine their 21 and create 42 minutes. Both players double their time without taking from others. In other news the entire is entering the bar, anything can happen

Assuming that they will never break into smaller groups within the party is a bit much. You may hate tables with more than 5 players, but making a table of 7 or 8 work is possible if people are willing to be patient and understanding.

You made me laugh :)

The funny part is that the last session ended with me(the bard) and the barbarian going toghter to a hobgoblin table in a bar without the royal army marking(I took them from the prince after we got a job from him).
All the party is waiting behined the curtain(the hobgoblins have a privet table).
Your blue text did happend. LOL.



You've missed the point. It's about active vs passive engagement in the game.

As for a 'solution', you have been given it.

If someone comes in and asks for a solution about how to make their 5e game Candyland, then people are going to suggest to play Candyland.

Likewise, you come here asking about a thing inherent to large groups and want a 'fix', well, your 'problem' is part of the identity of a large group playing an RPG.

But I got a lot of good solutions.

I don't know how do you think but when I find a problem I want to fix it.
in order to fix I don't make a bigger problem.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Need to delet it.

[Ihazturtlez]

I played a campaign where for a while we had 8 players. Our problem wasn't OOC, it was combat. For OOC, our DM handled it well. After the talkative people have their say, make sure the DM asks the quiet people if they want to add or do anything. Just make sure that they really have nothing to do nor say, and you'll be fine.

You don't HAVE to split the party, it's just an option. The people saying that it's the only way probably haven't tried larger parties, or they weren't getting enough of their own spotlight time so they dislike it.

[PhantomSoul]

Another option is that if too many people are talking and not all of it is actually needed for the group/events, everyone can have paper (or private messages or whatever) to be able to communicate without filling the airspace. That seems to help a lot with our group, and makes it so when characters don't really need screen time they can still develop their characters and/or the inter-character relationships... plus it helps with chatty players who just chat about non-game things.

Personal whiteboards work well too (+dry/wet erase markers), or you can cover a piece of cardboard with a protective plastic cover from the dollar store (those clear plastic rolls that are sticky on one side) and turn basically anything into a whiteboard.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

I played a campaign where for a while we had 8 players. Our problem wasn't OOC, it was combat. For OOC, our DM handled it well. After the talkative people have their say, make sure the DM asks the quiet people if they want to add or do anything. Just make sure that they really have nothing to do nor say, and you'll be fine.

You don't HAVE to split the party, it's just an option. The people saying that it's the only way probably haven't tried larger parties, or they weren't getting enough of their own spotlight time so they dislike it.
How didn't i thought on it?
I did it the last game I DMed, I feel realy stupid and I realy thank you :)

Another option is that if too many people are talking and not all of it is actually needed for the group/events, everyone can have paper (or private messages or whatever) to be able to communicate without filling the airspace. That seems to help a lot with our group, and makes it so when characters don't really need screen time they can still develop their characters and/or the inter-character relationships... plus it helps with chatty players who just chat about non-game things.

Personal whiteboards work well too (+dry/wet erase markers), or you can cover a piece of cardboard with a protective plastic cover from the dollar store (those clear plastic rolls that are sticky on one side) and turn basically anything into a whiteboard.

We do play in roll20 and use discord to talk, we have 2 chats to use. We will do it.

[Laserlight]

I have a 4 player party which tends to be "three solos, one of whom has an enforcer with her". I'll run Sean for a little, then switch over to Jesse, then to Jana and Tom, back to Sean--ideally leaving at least one of them on a cliffhanger as I make the circuit. In our case it's a bit awkward because the party members are keeping secrets from each other, but in a normal party, where the first thing they do is "I tell everyone what happened", it would be easy.

With a larger party, Alice, Bob and Clarice can discuss among themselves what they want to do next, while waiting for the DM to come back from dealing with Daniel and Edith, and Frank and Georgette.

[Chaosmancer]

Another option is that if too many people are talking and not all of it is actually needed for the group/events, everyone can have paper (or private messages or whatever) to be able to communicate without filling the airspace. That seems to help a lot with our group, and makes it so when characters don't really need screen time they can still develop their characters and/or the inter-character relationships... plus it helps with chatty players who just chat about non-game things.

Personal whiteboards work well too (+dry/wet erase markers), or you can cover a piece of cardboard with a protective plastic cover from the dollar store (those clear plastic rolls that are sticky on one side) and turn basically anything into a whiteboard.

I totally forgot about that option. In the Roll20 game I'm in we used to do that fairly regularly.

Not as much anymore I'm sad to say, people stopped paying attention to the chats and didn't see the messages. Gotta bring that back.

[username1]

I don’t like to be a downer, but running large groups is really hard. If you do make sure you guys are all best buds, otherwise it will fall apart quick. You all have to be willing to have less than normal play sessions and recognize everyone at the table. I have a friend who runs a group of ten players for 45 min chunks every day. Don’t know how he does it.