Hex Abuse

[sophontteks]

I'm theorycrafting a warlock over here and Hex seems like a really great spell, practically a must-have for the extra damage, but eating a spell slot on this every fight is...rough. Then I notice that at level 5 the spell will last 8 hours and I can switch targets as a bonus action...if the target is dead.

So, I can save myself a spell slot and have hex every fight. All I need is a vessel...
Well, how about bugs and rodents? Mice, beetles, flies, bats, bunnies, squirrels. You have one on hand, and when the fight is over you move the hex onto it. Next time a fight begins, you kill it and move it onto another target.

Downside, wasted action. And gotta find bugs. Fortunately bugs are all over and a chainlock has a bug catcher at the ready.

But there is more...
So casting the spell requires V, S, M. Its a spell, and its a pretty obvious one. Thing is I already cast the spell. If I wanna curse something I just squash a bug and move the hex onto them. I'm not recasting the spell. This opens the spell up for all sorts of cool stuff outside of combat too, and honestly it seems pretty warlockey to me.

thoughts?

[Foxhound438]

you actually don't have to have it on a thing at all times- as long as you still concentrate on it, you can still re-target after the last enemy dies, since it doesn't say "the next turn", it says "a subsequent turn".

[sophontteks]

Ah so your right. Even better! Though the bug squahing is still good flavor. Wow this is a heck of a spell then.

[MaxWilson]

thoughts?

It's not abuse--that's just the spell working as intended. It's not always a great use of your concentration though. Hex is a good 1st level spell, especially if you exploit the ability check disadvantage thing using e.g. to make it easier for your allies to grapple/prone enemies. It's not a great 3rd level spell though and it's a pretty bad 5th level spell, so a pure warlock would probably want to avoid Hex--but it's a good go-to spell for bardlocks and sorlocks because they have plenty of low-level spell slots.

Just don't be shy about ditching Hex in favor of Hypnotic Pattern/Wall of Fire/whatever any time you need your concentration for something important.

[Laserlight]

Please don't embarrass yourself by squashing a bug. Sacrifice a goat, or at least a chicken.

[sophontteks]

It seems to scale well to me. The 1d6 effects each hit afterall, the fact that its a spell that doesn't cost a spell slot is pretty handy, and a warlock can hex npcs out of combat as if it was subtle spell, since he already cast it prior.

A warlock looking to be a pure blaster would get a ton of mileage out of this spell. I'm looking at the fiend warlock and they have plenty of non-concentration options. This combined with an upcast scorching ray? On a crit? With ample sources of advantage?

There is also an invocation that increases the damage even more as a bonus action. Maddening hex. When you hit a hexed target it, and everything near it of your choice takes damage = to charisma bonus.

EDIT: Heres a fiendlock combo at mid levels.
Cast blindness on several opponents. Move hex onto one. Next turm cast scorching ray with advantage on all blinded by you. Deal bonus AOE damage from maddening hex and enjoy the crits, which also double the hex damage.

[Asmotherion]

you actually don't have to have it on a thing at all times- as long as you still concentrate on it, you can still re-target after the last enemy dies, since it doesn't say "the next turn", it says "a subsequent turn".
This.

On the other hand, gg for the out of the box thinking. But, keep in mind that, if your DM really wanted to nerf a spell some way, this would probably not stop him.

There's a whole school of thought about "low magic" DMing depending on interpreating magical effects the least favorable way towards the caster. Embrace it or leave it, really. I'll admit it can be fun to play in such a scenario.

[kamap]

If I'm not mistaken hex extra dmg will trigger for every eldritch blast bolt that hits.
So at character lvl 5 you'll send out 2 eldritch blast bolts and both will get that extra hex dmg.
Plus cha mod if you take agonizing blast evocation at warlock 2.
That means at lvl 5 --> 2*(1d10+cha+1d6)

[MThurston]

If I'm not mistaken hex extra dmg will trigger for every eldritch blast bolt that hits.
So at character lvl 5 you'll send out 2 eldritch blast bolts and both will get that extra hex dmg.
Plus cha mod if you take agonizing blast evocation at warlock 2.
That means at lvl 5 --> 2*(1d10+cha+1d6)

You can also swing twice with a weapon if you take that option at level 5.

Also Warlocks get all their spells back after a short rest. No need to hold a bug all day. And to be honest concentrating on the spell all day is silly.

[Asmotherion]

If I'm not mistaken hex extra dmg will trigger for every eldritch blast bolt that hits.
So at character lvl 5 you'll send out 2 eldritch blast bolts and both will get that extra hex dmg.
Plus cha mod if you take agonizing blast evocation at warlock 2.
That means at lvl 5 --> 2*(1d10+cha+1d6)
You are correct. This is also why people love to multiclass Sorcerer Warlock to Quicken Eldritch Blast. It's awesome like that.

[strangebloke]

The trick is not losing concentration over multiple combats.

[sophontteks]

So more thoughts on it.

A warlock can normally short rest after a long rest. Morning routines qualify as light activity anyway. As part of his morning ritual he casts hex on a poor animal and sacrifices it. Now he has hex up for free.

There will be things that come up which could break concentration. He may want to concentrate on something else, and he may want to place the hex on something the party doesn't plan to kill. But that's fine because the spell is essentially free. If he has a spare spell slot up before a short rest he can cast it again for free too.

It's not so good for a warlock trying to be more like a wizard, but for those looking to keep up with martials free damage seems like a sweet deal.


If I'm not mistaken hex extra dmg will trigger for every eldritch blast bolt that hits.
So at character lvl 5 you'll send out 2 eldritch blast bolts and both will get that extra hex dmg.
Plus cha mod if you take agonizing blast evocation at warlock 2.
That means at lvl 5 --> 2*(1d10+cha+1d6)

Plus it can crit, it can have advantage, and maddening hex gives it a small aoe damage. Blindness/deafness doesn't cost concentration, so cast it on a few critters, hex one thats blind, and make all rolls with advantage. Hex damage is doubled on a crit.

It sounds like a sweet deal. I was gonna make a halfling warlock too. Rerolling the 1's give an even greater (although only slightly) chance of a crit.

[Segev]

There's always glyph of warding. Shove hex into it, and put your sacrificial lamb into it. Bam, now you don't have to maintain Concentration.

This does get expensive, though, at 100 gp per casting of glyph of warding (at least, I think it's 100 gp).

[NaughtyTiger]

There's always glyph of warding. Shove hex into it, and put your sacrificial lamb into it. Bam, now you don't have to maintain Concentration.

This does get expensive, though, at 100 gp per casting of glyph of warding (at least, I think it's 100 gp).

screw the expense. i love the flavor...
hold on guys, i need to finish one thing before we break camp...

[BaconAwesome]

The bug trick is also used when you want to hex an NPC out of combat. Go around the corner, squish a bug, then come back and hex the merchant before haggling, etc.

[Willie the Duck]

It seems to scale well to me. The 1d6 effects each hit afterall, the fact that its a spell that doesn't cost a spell slot is pretty handy, and a warlock can hex npcs out of combat as if it was subtle spell, since he already cast it prior.

A warlock looking to be a pure blaster would get a ton of mileage out of this spell.


You are correct. This is also why people love to multiclass Sorcerer Warlock to Quicken Eldritch Blast. It's awesome like that.


A warlock can normally short rest after a long rest. Morning routines qualify as light activity anyway. As part of his morning ritual he casts hex on a poor animal and sacrifices it. Now he has hex up for free.

There will be things that come up which could break concentration. He may want to concentrate on something else, and he may want to place the hex on something the party doesn't plan to kill. But that's fine because the spell is essentially free.

Yes, all of this is straight-up legal and (arguably) thematically appropriate. If you want to focus a warlock on being a straight up damage-dealing creature, this is one way to do it. Given that some people have been somewhat underwhelmed with non-coffeelock, non-hexblade-dip warlocks, I don't even fault anyone for wanting to do this. As to the initial hex being effectively free... well it is, at the point where you have unfettered access to short rests when you want, and at the levels where it lasts an appreciably long time (the same point when every other class has something else up their sleeves as well). I certainly don't fault the Shadow Monks from giving themselves darkvision and then short-resting to get their Ki back*. Thus I wouldn't want to fault the warlock for doing the same.
*I think if I were designing the game, I would have made different choices that would make this unnecessary, but that's a separate issue.

The only thing I would say is that I feel like there is so much more potential to the warlock, that I hope you won't miss out on the rest of them and just focus exclusively on their damage output.

[MThurston]

The bug trick is also used when you want to hex an NPC out of combat. Go around the corner, squish a bug, then come back and hex the merchant before haggling, etc.

Again, why a Warlock wouldn't take a short rest is silly.

[NaughtyTiger]

Again, why a Warlock wouldn't take a short rest is silly.

A 7th level warlock casts Hex. She has to cast it at 4th level. so it lasts for 8 hours.
She takes a short rest, gets her 2 slots back and still has Hex up for 5 more hours.

I think the point is the Warlock IS taking a short rest.


I assume (red flag) Bacon's bug trick for the merchant is that Casting Hex is noticeable cuz verbal and somatic components. But transferring it doesn't have those tell-tale markers.

[MaxWilson]

Again, why a Warlock wouldn't take a short rest is silly.

It's not about the short rest in that scenario. It's about avoiding spellcasting in front of the merchant (VSM) which might tip him off to the fact that he is being Hexed.

[DMThac0]

I love that I found this thread, I actually had a similar thing just pop up in my game last saturday:

Monk/lock decides to hex, then realizes there's no more targets but she has a lot of time left on her hex and the following conversation happens:

Her: So, a creature simply needs to hit 0 and then I can move hex to the next target right?
Me: Yes, why?
Her: When a druid in shapeshift form is reduced to 0 they revert to their original form right?
Me: Yes, but that would also give the Disadvantage to the druid as well...
Her: Cool, hey (to druid) do you mind if I put my hex on you?

I was amused beyond all belief, I love creative thinking, and now that my players are finally to a point where the game is challenging them again I thought this was fantastic.

I am glad that someone pointed out that hex doesn't just vanish so long as the 'lock can keep concentration that will make things easier going forward.

[sophontteks]

I love that I found this thread, I actually had a similar thing just pop up in my game last saturday:

Monk/lock decides to hex, then realizes there's no more targets but she has a lot of time left on her hex and the following conversation happens:

Her: So, a creature simply needs to hit 0 and then I can move hex to the next target right?
Me: Yes, why?
Her: When a druid in shapeshift form is reduced to 0 they revert to their original form right?
Me: Yes, but that would also give the Disadvantage to the druid as well...
Her: Cool, hey (to druid) do you mind if I put my hex on you?

I was amused beyond all belief, I love creative thinking, and now that my players are finally to a point where the game is challenging them again I thought this was fantastic.

I am glad that someone pointed out that hex doesn't just vanish so long as the 'lock can keep concentration that will make things easier going forward.
Nice! I didn't think of that. And yeah, when foxhound pointed out that you can just wait it blew my mind :smallbiggrin:

I just really like playing with the classes that seem misunderstood, like the sorcerer and the warlock. When I dive into them I keep finding all these really cool tricks they can pull off. Things that really allow them to come into their own.



The only thing I would say is that I feel like there is so much more potential to the warlock, that I hope you won't miss out on the rest of them and just focus exclusively on their damage output.
Wow Willie, that's a loaded comment!
I don't know if I'm taking advantage of all of a warlocks potential. They seem to be a very flexible class, but they really benefit when there is a clear focus. The warlock I'm after is really a replacement for a rogue in many ways, not a wizard. To aid in this I am taking the criminal (blackmailer) background as a halfling with the fiend archtype. I'm taking pact of the chain. An invisible scout is a very handy thing to have and I'm taking mask of many faces to go with this. The familiar can scout ahead and I can change my looks based in the information he gathered.

The 1d10 for ability checks will come in real handy for those inevitable must-pass checks I would need to make under scrutiny. I'm considering taking actor early as well. With hex I can give them disadvantage on wisdom (insight) checks to tell that my voice is faked.

The DPS focus from there is just a natural thing for a rogue to focus on. The emphasis is on taking key targets out of the fight quickly, but command and blindness/deafness offer really good control too. It'll really come into its own with hurl through hell. That ability alone is a strong reason not to multiclass.

[Willie the Duck]

Wow Willie, that's a loaded comment!

Looking back, I see that. Sorry, that was not my intent.

What I mean is that if the class is just a glorified archer who uses force bolts instead of a bow, then it should just be a archetype of fighter or something. There ought to be more focus on how the warlock uses their invocations, their chain familiar/tome ritual spells/etc., and so on. And if the rules encourage treating them as glorified Gatling guns, maybe that's a problem in how the book presents them.


I don't know if I'm taking advantage of all of a warlocks potential. They seem to be a very flexible class, but they really benefit when there is a clear focus. The warlock I'm after is really a replacement for a rogue in many ways, not a wizard. To aid in this I am taking the criminal (blackmailer) background as a halfling with the fiend archtype. I'm taking pact of the chain. An invisible scout is a very handy thing to have and I'm taking mask of many faces to go with this. The familiar can scout ahead and I can change my looks based in the information he gathered.

And that's a wonderful character theme, exactly the kind of thing I was thinking of.


The DPS focus from there is just a natural thing for a rogue to focus on. The emphasis is on taking key targets out of the fight quickly, but command and blindness/deafness offer really good control too.

Fair enough.

[sophontteks]

I didn't mean it in a bad way Willie. I'm just theorycrafting and honestly don't know if I am making the most of its potiential. Glad you like my idea so far.

I'll add. Bestow curse doesn't require concentration and lasts 8 hours at warlock level 10. That might be worth an invocation.:smallbiggrin:
I can curse and hex a target. If only curse could be transferred too. I want to make it work, but casting it is just like casting any other spell. Its normally a hostile action.

EDIT: Range touch. That might be the key right there. Poor familiar.

EDIT EDIT: Oh my god, that's it. This is too good to be true.

Imp's invisibility:
"The imp magically turns invisible until it attacks, or until its concentration ends (as if concentrating on a spell). Any equipment the imp wears or carries is invisible with it."
If I cast hex and deliver it through my familiar, they remain invisible!
:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

[BaconAwesome]

I assume (red flag) Bacon's bug trick for the merchant is that Casting Hex is noticeable cuz verbal and somatic components. But transferring it doesn't have those tell-tale markers.

You got it - if your DM rules the transfer isn't noticible, then it's poor man's subtle.

[Arathryth]

There is also an invocation that increases the damage even more as a bonus action. Maddening hex. When you hit a hexed target it, and everything near it of your choice takes damage = to charisma bonus.

Technically you don't even need to hit a hexed target with anything to trigger Maddening Hex, you just use your bonus action to deal your target and any creature you choose within 5 feet of it psychic damage equal to your CHA modifier.

[Ganders]

You can actually use the same bug over and over if you knock it out instead of killing it. However, my GM doesn't really approve of the bug trick. So... my tomelock is fond of casting hex on his own familiar.

First turn, have the familiar appear and draw a weapon. (Casting shillelagh as a bonus action is optional.)

Next turn, hex the familiar and knock it out, then put the weapon away.

Then you can dismiss the familiar again and take a short rest (not necessarily in that order) if you wish.

Bonus creep factor if someone catches you beating your own cat into unconsciousness.

[LudicSavant]

I'm theorycrafting a warlock over here and Hex seems like a really great spell, practically a must-have for the extra damage, but eating a spell slot on this every fight is...rough. Then I notice that at level 5 the spell will last 8 hours and I can switch targets as a bonus action...if the target is dead.

So, I can save myself a spell slot and have hex every fight. All I need is a vessel...
Well, how about bugs and rodents? Mice, beetles, flies, bats, bunnies, squirrels. You have one on hand, and when the fight is over you move the hex onto it. Next time a fight begins, you kill it and move it onto another target.

Downside, wasted action. And gotta find bugs. Fortunately bugs are all over and a chainlock has a bug catcher at the ready.

But there is more...
So casting the spell requires V, S, M. Its a spell, and its a pretty obvious one. Thing is I already cast the spell. If I wanna curse something I just squash a bug and move the hex onto them. I'm not recasting the spell. This opens the spell up for all sorts of cool stuff outside of combat too, and honestly it seems pretty warlockey to me.

thoughts?

The bug step is unnecessary. As long as you're still Concentrating, and the original target has dropped to zero hit points, you can use a bonus action to curse a new target on a subsequent turn... no matter how long it's been since the target was reduced to zero hit points.

[sophontteks]

Technically you don't even need to hit a hexed target with anything to trigger Maddening Hex, you just use your bonus action to deal your target and any creature you choose within 5 feet of it psychic damage equal to your CHA modifier.
Oh...well. That's broken. Warlock best assassin in the game.

[RSP]

It’s a good spell and if you choose to focus on it, there’s still great choices to use your slots on: Counterspell, Dispel Magic, AoA, Hellish Rebuke, Misty Step, Mirror Image, Synaptic Static, Dimension Door...

Not to mention Smites if going that route. It’s a good damage uptick for free, assuming you can maintain Concentration.

[JackPhoenix]

There's always glyph of warding. Shove hex into it, and put your sacrificial lamb into it. Bam, now you don't have to maintain Concentration.

This does get expensive, though, at 100 gp per casting of glyph of warding (at least, I think it's 100 gp).

The glyph also isn't capable of shifting the Hex to a different target, so unless you lure the intended enemy to it, you're out of luck. And you'll be stuck with one victim.


You can actually use the same bug over and over if you knock it out instead of killing it. However, my GM doesn't really approve of the bug trick. So... my tomelock is fond of casting hex on his own familiar.

First turn, have the familiar appear and draw a weapon. (Casting shillelagh as a bonus action is optional.)

Next turn, hex the familiar and knock it out, then put the weapon away.

Then you can dismiss the familiar again and take a short rest (not necessarily in that order) if you wish.

Bonus creep factor if someone catches you beating your own cat into unconsciousness.

Familiar disappears at 0 hp. You'd need to resummon and pay the material component it every time you do this.

[RSP]

Familiar disappears at 0 hp. You'd need to resummon and pay the material component it every time you do this.

And due to the 1 hour casting time, recasting FF would take your Concentration, ending Hex.

[Arathryth]

Oh...well. That's broken. Warlock best assassin in the game.

You do however still need to be within the 30ft range and be able yo see the target to deal the damage.

[NaughtyTiger]

The glyph also isn't capable of shifting the Hex to a different target, so unless you lure the intended enemy to it, you're out of luck. And you'll be stuck with one victim.

but you killed the goat, so you are free to assign Hex to the first creature you want to within the 8 hours.

[Xetheral]

Please don't embarrass yourself by squashing a bug. Sacrifice a goat, or at least a chicken.

Take the Gourmand feat from UA and sacrifice the chicken in style. Then serve it to your party as a delicious meal.

[sophontteks]

You do however still need to be within the 30ft range and be able yo see the target to deal the damage.
Oh, good. I didn't want a broken combo. My reading comprehension is out the window right now due to an ear infection. Thanks for pointing that out.

It'd be fun pulling that off if the enemy didn't know I was the cause of their hex, but at least its not broken.

[JackPhoenix]

but you killed the goat, so you are free to assign Hex to the first creature you want to within the 8 hours.

Not really, because it doesn't matter who kills the goat, the Hex originates from the glyph, and the glyph is incapable of changing its target, being non-sapient and all. You aren't in control of the spell.

[Segev]

You got it - if your DM rules the transfer isn't noticible, then it's poor man's subtle.Even if you don't go full Coffeelock, a 3-level Sorceror dip could get a Warlock plenty of uses of Subtle Spell. But yes, for a pure Warlock, or a Warlock dip from another class, this works. (Not sure how small a "dip" it can be to get hex to the durations being discussed, though.)


The glyph also isn't capable of shifting the Hex to a different target, so unless you lure the intended enemy to it, you're out of luck. And you'll be stuck with one victim.



but you killed the goat, so you are free to assign Hex to the first creature you want to within the 8 hours.


Not really, because it doesn't matter who kills the goat, the Hex originates from the glyph, and the glyph is incapable of changing its target, being non-sapient and all. You aren't in control of the spell.
Nowhere does it say that you aren't in control of the spell. Only that the glyph maintains the Concentration. You could certainly rule the way you're saying, JackPhoenix, and it's 5e, so "rulings, not rules" is very much on your side, but it's a particularly loose reading of the RAW to get there. It is at least equally fair to say that the ruling that you do maintain control is within the RAW. I actually think it's more strictly within, since it requires no invention of "the glyph controls the spell" thought process, but I also do see where the thought comes from and how it can be inferred if one wishes to.

At 100 gp per day you do this, I don't see it as being particularly broken, either.

[MThurston]

It's not about the short rest in that scenario. It's about avoiding spellcasting in front of the merchant (VSM) which might tip him off to the fact that he is being Hexed.

Focus or IPW plus warcaster. Done.

Also you can't keep a concentration spell up while resting.

[MThurston]

I love that I found this thread, I actually had a similar thing just pop up in my game last saturday:

Monk/lock decides to hex, then realizes there's no more targets but she has a lot of time left on her hex and the following conversation happens:

Her: So, a creature simply needs to hit 0 and then I can move hex to the next target right?
Me: Yes, why?
Her: When a druid in shapeshift form is reduced to 0 they revert to their original form right?
Me: Yes, but that would also give the Disadvantage to the druid as well...
Her: Cool, hey (to druid) do you mind if I put my hex on you?

I was amused beyond all belief, I love creative thinking, and now that my players are finally to a point where the game is challenging them again I thought this was fantastic.

I am glad that someone pointed out that hex doesn't just vanish so long as the 'lock can keep concentration that will make things easier going forward.

So, how much can one do to keep concentration up? Can they swim? Can they have a conversation? Can they do math problems?

[sophontteks]

So, how much can one do to keep concentration up? Can they swim? Can they have a conversation? Can they do math problems?
Yes. They can do all of that and more. Those all fall under normal activity.

Maintaining concentration doesn't mean it requires their full concentration. Its not even strenuous. It requires a minimal effort. Its something they can do unimpeded all day no problem. It takes something very jarring to even bring up a chance for them to lose concentration, like getting hit by an axe or a fireball.

The book gives an example of something besides taking damage that could break concentration. A wave crashing over you in a storm, toppleing your ship. DC 10 concentration check. What is swimming in comparison?

[NaughtyTiger]

So, how much can one do to keep concentration up? Can they swim? Can they have a conversation? Can they do math problems?

PHB chapter 9:
Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn’t interfere with Concentration. The following factors can break concentration:
Casting another spell that requires Concentration.
Taking damage.
Being Incapacitated or killed.


It is generally accepted that resting but not sleeping/trancing (ie short rest) doesn't break concentration.


Focus or IPW plus warcaster. Done.

there is still a verbal component

[sophontteks]

there is still a verbal component
There is still a somatic component too. It just says they can do it while holding weapons and shields. Definitely not a substitute for subtle.

Short rest allows light activity. It included eating, reading, bandaging wounds, etc. It wouldn't break concentration.

[MThurston]

PHB chapter 9:
Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn’t interfere with Concentration. The following factors can break concentration:
Casting another spell that requires Concentration.
Taking damage.
Being Incapacitated or killed.


It is generally accepted that resting but not sleeping/trancing (ie short rest) doesn't break concentration.



there is still a verbal component

Which you don't have to sing at the top of your lungs.

The old try to curse a merchant trick and the elaborate way it has to use a bug.

[sophontteks]

Which you don't have to sing at the top of your lungs.

The old try to curse a merchant trick and the elaborate way it has to use a bug.
There has been lots of contention over how obvious casting is and according to polls most seem to believe its very noticeable. Even under lesser rulings its still noticeable enough not to do it in public. It's something that bothers me personally as it really hurts many charm spells, making them just a notch above useless. Crawford has even started that the verbal component is not a part of the spell itself, but very specific mutterings of gibberish that would clearly give away that a spell is being cast.

This is why subtle is so powerful. Sorcerers are the one classs that can cast in social situations without being noticed and moving a hex has no verbal or somatic components at all and thus works like subtle. There is nothing that gives the spell away at all. A warlock can hex a target in plain sight. A powerful thing considering he can then use maddening hex to deal his cha score in damage every 10 seconds, and the target would have no idea what is causing the damage.

[Willie the Duck]

BitD, we always interpreted charm spells as selectively editing-out/making-seem-unimportant the 'you just had a spell cast on you' part of being charmed, so if you caught someone alone, you could charm them and they wouldn't realize it (at least until the charm wore off). The introductory 'choose your own adventure' scenario that was part of the Mentzer basic set (the one that introduced the iconic Aleena and Bargle) included you, the nameless protagonist, potentially being hit with a charm person and it playing out in that fashion.

[NaughtyTiger]

For someone to cast counterspell they have to know the spell is being cast. Since you can counterspell a spell in range without having to pay attention, the Verbal, Somatic effects are obvious to people in the area. (Subtle spell is so underrated)

[MaxWilson]

PHB chapter 9:
Normal activity, such as moving and attacking, doesn’t interfere with Concentration. The following factors can break concentration:
Casting another spell that requires Concentration.
Taking damage.
Being Incapacitated or killed.

Also, casting a spell with a casting time longer than 1 action.

Also, DM-determined ad hoc factors. AFB, IIRC the PHB gives the example of a violent wave crashing over you as something which could potentially force a concentration check despite doing no damage.

[MThurston]

Warlock with IPW and Warcaster could be very sneaky with casting.

[sophontteks]

Warlock with IPW and Warcaster could be very sneaky with casting.
Unless I'm missing something I don't see how. It seems like waving a sword around while chanting would be even less sneaky.

[NaughtyTiger]

Warlock with IPW and Warcaster could be very sneaky with casting.

Is this sarcasm? (hard to tell in text)

Cuz the previous posts pointed out that she is still gesturing and making audible incantations.
She won't be sneaky enough to bypass a counterspell, which means any caster will notice her. (no perception check is required to cast counterspell)
If a caster can notice her, then anyone can notice her.
(i am skipping some of the logical jumps to get here.

Are you saying that she can gesture "subtle" enough and incant "quietly" enough as not to be noticed due to Warcaster?
If yes, then that interpretation weakens "subtle spell" and adds additional features to Warcaster.
If yes, then are you saying a spell by Warcaster can't be counterspelled?

[MThurston]

Is this sarcasm? (hard to tell in text)

Cuz the previous posts pointed out that she is still gesturing and making audible incantations.
She won't be sneaky enough to bypass a counterspell, which means any caster will notice her. (no perception check is required to cast counterspell)
If a caster can notice her, then anyone can notice her.
(i am skipping some of the logical jumps to get here.

Are you saying that she can gesture "subtle" enough and incant "quietly" enough as not to be noticed due to Warcaster?
If yes, then that interpretation weakens "subtle spell" and adds additional features to Warcaster.
If yes, then are you saying a spell by Warcaster can't be counterspelled?

You guys are funny. You hold a focus in one hand and a sandwich in the other. You then pretend to be talking with your hands with your friend.

Spell is cast and noone is the wiser.

You guys act like it's some kind of conspiracy theory to do this. If you have performance, it's a win.

Holding bugs is for pretend spell casters.

[sophontteks]

You guys are funny. You hold a focus in one hand and a sandwich in the other. You then pretend to be talking with your hands with your friend.

Spell is cast and noone is the wiser.

You guys act like it's some kind of conspiracy theory to do this. If you have performance, it's a win.

Holding bugs is for pretend spell casters.
Some DMs, all the DMs I've played with, do allow one to try to hide their casting with a proper check, but they require certain circumstances along with the rather high possibility of failure. They can't hold up to scrutiny. Anyone able to hear you is still going to notice and I'm still not following how warcaster is making this less conspicuous.

The alternative proposed allows one to be standing right in front of someone's face and hex them. No failure, no pretending, no suspicion.

[KorvinStarmast]

Also, casting a spell with a casting time longer than 1 action. Is that from Crawford? For sure it isn't in the PHB. (Or was that errata?)

[JackPhoenix]

Is that from Crawford? For sure it isn't in the PHB. (Or was that errata?)

It's redundant with the first point on NaughtyTiger's list:
Certain spells (including spells cast as rituals) require more time to cast: minutes or even hours. When you cast a spell with a casting time longer than a single action or reaction, you must spend your action each turn casting the spell, and you must maintain your concentration while you do so (see “Concentration” below). If your concentration is broken, the spell fails, but you don’t expend a spell slot. If you want to try casting the spell again, you must start over.

[NaughtyTiger]

Not really, because it doesn't matter who kills the goat, the Hex originates from the glyph... You aren't in control of the spell.

Hmm. My gut was that I am in control of the spell.
However, the spell is silent on that either way.

I will chew on that.

I hope you are wrong, because I realllly like image of morning sacrifice to brew a fresh cup of hex.

[Segev]

Hmm. My gut was that I am in control of the spell.
However, the spell is silent on that either way.

I will chew on that.

I hope you are wrong, because I realllly like image of morning sacrifice to brew a fresh cup of hex.

Like all questions of this sort in 5e, ask your DM.

[RSP]

Also you can't keep a concentration spell up while resting.

Not quite correct. You certainly can keep Concentration up while resting, just not while Unconscious (sleeping).

[Zalabim]

Hmm. My gut was that I am in control of the spell.
However, the spell is silent on that either way.

I will chew on that.

I hope you are wrong, because I realllly like image of morning sacrifice to brew a fresh cup of hex.

More than that, because you aren't "the caster" in this case, you also wouldn't get the damage bonus for your attacks. They would just have disadvantage on ability checks for the ability chosen. Chosen when and by who? Again, ask your DM.

[Segev]

More than that, because you aren't "the caster" in this case, you also wouldn't get the damage bonus for your attacks. They would just have disadvantage on ability checks for the ability chosen. Chosen when and by who? Again, ask your DM.

Again, neither spell changes the caster by the RAW. I can still see how a DM might rule that way without violating the RAW explicitly, but it is a DM ruling, not an express consequence of the spells as written.

[lperkins2]

So, anything that fails the bag of rats test is deserving of house rules. In my case, I just let you cast Hex, and similar spells, without a target initially. In almost every case, it makes no balance difference, and it avoids the time spent hunting for worms/bugs/rats.

[Zalabim]

Again, neither spell changes the caster by the RAW. I can still see how a DM might rule that way without violating the RAW explicitly, but it is a DM ruling, not an express consequence of the spells as written.
I'm gonna open by saying I don't see any way to read the spell and come away thinking that the creator of the glyph of warding is the caster of the spell from the spell glyph. You cast the spell along with the glyph of warding but it has no effect. Then, when the glyph is triggered, the spell is cast and here's a bunch of rules for how the spell behaves. It seems 100% clear to me. Then I'm going to look and see if this question has already been asked and answered.

And I can't find anything definitive. The two tangential answers are "Do you have to concentrate on Hunter's Mark/Hex from glyph of warding? No, see the last line of glyph of warding." and "Glyph of Warding says the spell is cast when it's triggered. Can you counterspell that? No, counterspell targets a creature you can see that is casting a spell."

I will add that you aren't the caster after you put a spell into a Ring of Spell Storing, and you aren't the caster when you summon another creature to cast a spell for you. You can allow it with Glyph of Warding, but you don't have to, it's not RAW, and you wouldn't have to even if it was. No creature is the caster is this case and that's why the spell gives rules for how the spell is used when it's cast.

[JackPhoenix]

Snip

Yeah, I read it the same way, that's why I was putting that as an objection. Surprisingly, this question wasn't ever raised in Sage Advice, so I've tweeted JC to get a RAI answer. However, he never replied to any of my previous rules questions, so I don't believe I'll get an answer.

The part of GoW's description saying that summoned creatures automatically attack the triggering creature without any mention of listening to caster's orders looks like support for my argument to me, however, I'm clearly biased.

[NaughtyTiger]

I will add that you aren't the caster after you put a spell into a Ring of Spell Storing, and you aren't the caster when you summon another creature to cast a spell for you.

to the first point, the spell IS cast with your stats (not your concentration).
to the second, FF is the closest case were you burn a spell slot and another creature casts a spell.

i am not saying you are wrong, just those aren't the strongest arguments in your favor.
The fact that JC suggested you CAN cast Hunter's Mark without his usual snark is a weak argument against.