Just one wish

[Malapterus]

For my new campaign, I had the thought to include a Ring of Three Wishes with a single wish left on it, for my party to find if they look in the right place. The players won't know about it, so they won't be looking.

How much can this mess up my game? The characters will be at least level 10 by the time they get there, probably much higher. As no other spell can complete their task of "get the dingus", I rule that they cannot simply wish for that. (Dingus is shielded from divination & teleportation and no mortal being knows where it us).

I don't think the players would break the plot intentionally, but I want to know how bad of an idea this is.

[noob]

They will wish for kjghtkgr then hnkbfdr.
Then total party wipe.
Or they will wish for a deck of many things someone else own then use it immediately in hope of seeing what could possibly happen then the campaign will end somehow in unpredictable ways.
Or they will wish for a sphere of annihilation to fall in a well of many worlds.
Or wish for a candle of invocation and use it to summon an angel and explain it the problem and somehow that will explode the universe violently(candle physics are hard to understand).

[BWR]

Frankly, the only one who can really mess up the campaign with a Wish is you. The basic abilities of it are pretty well-defined, being basically just most any other 8th or lower level spell or item(s) of up to 25 000 gp value. If your campaign can be messed up by any of those things, it wouldn't need a Wish to do so. It's when you get into the nebulous area of abilities beyond those that things can get iffy, and as the GM you can permit, limit, or give side effects/consequences as you wish.
I'm pretty old school in my handling of Wish: you can ask for whatever you want but the harder you push Reality, the harder it pushes back. As a rule of thumb, if it solves a situation or overcomes an obstacle on the way to the end of the adventure, I usually allow it. If it invalidates the plot or solves far reaching problems like trying to wipe out an army, or drastic changes to things like political landscapes (someone wants to be king, for instance) they will be looking at the Wish simply failing if they are lucky or actual consequences if they are not.

[Silly Name]

As said above, the possibilities of breaking the game depend entirely on how you choose to handle the Wish.

As long as they use it to generate one of the listed effects, nothing too campaign breaking could happen. The moment they go "off the rails", it depends entirely on what they ask, how they word it, and how you manage the situation.

Wish is a game-breaking spell in theory, but a good DM's job includes managing game-breaking stuff so that it doesn't actually break anything fundamental.

[Feantar]

Frankly, the only one who can really mess up the campaign with a Wish is you. The basic abilities of it are pretty well-defined, being basically just most any other 8th or lower level spell or item(s) of up to 25 000 gp value. If your campaign can be messed up by any of those things, it wouldn't need a Wish to do so. It's when you get into the nebulous area of abilities beyond those that things can get iffy, and as the GM you can permit, limit, or give side effects/consequences as you wish.
I'm pretty old school in my handling of Wish: you can ask for whatever you want but the harder you push Reality, the harder it pushes back. As a rule of thumb, if it solves a situation or overcomes an obstacle on the way to the end of the adventure, I usually allow it. If it invalidates the plot or solves far reaching problems like trying to wipe out an army, or drastic changes to things like political landscapes (someone wants to be king, for instance) they will be looking at the Wish simply failing if they are lucky or actual consequences if they are not.

Well, not exactly. Wish can create a magic item with no value limit. This is in the standard powers (as in, no extra consequences). That can be extremely problematic. And since they are not casting it, they don't have to pay the XP. Yes, I know it is reasonable to assume there's a limit, but RAW there isn't one.

In general wish is better used as a thematic, really powerful plot device that the players utilise (remove a curse from the kingdom, bring prosperity to a village, etc). If it is used for raw power, it can really mess things up. However, it depends on your players. Most players who respect a balance in a game won't go crazy.

The wish variant rule in D&D wiki (Yes, that one of all places) is actually, surprisingly, quite good.

[RoboEmperor]

Well, not exactly. Wish can create a magic item with no value limit. This is in the standard powers (as in, no extra consequences). That can be extremely problematic. And since they are not casting it, they don't have to pay the XP. Yes, I know it is reasonable to assume there's a limit, but RAW there isn't one.

In general wish is better used as a thematic, really powerful plot device that the players utilise (remove a curse from the kingdom, bring prosperity to a village, etc). If it is used for raw power, it can really mess things up. However, it depends on your players. Most players who respect a balance in a game won't go crazy.

The wish variant rule in D&D wiki (Yes, that one of all places) is actually, surprisingly, quite good.

There is a limit. This is Ring of Wishes not Wish the SLA or Su ability. Its limit is 5,000xp so you cannot make a magic item with a ring of 3 wishes.

[Goaty14]

The Tarrasque actually dies when the players "kill" it, instead of regenerating for a millennia before finally coming back to create more plot hooks :smalltongue:

[Bronk]

As no other spell can complete their task of "get the dingus", I rule that they cannot simply wish for that. (Dingus is shielded from divination & teleportation and no mortal being knows where it us).

It's possible that your players will quickly read up on wish, and if they do, and you fight them on their safe wishes, they'll know you're screwing with them. They may not be able to get the dingus, but getting themselves to the location of the dingus is a safe wish: the 'regardless of local conditions' clause.

My advice is if that happens, don't try to thwart them, instead work that into your plot. For example, they wish themselves there, they catch a glimpse of the dingus, get a valuable clue, but then quickly get kicked out. Maybe they're banished, maybe they're chased out by a monster they're not ready for yet, etc. You're good to go, because they didn't get the dingus. They're good to go, because they got info (and maybe some loot before they banished by whatever). Hopefully, everyone's happy.

You could try to avoid the problem by planting some information about how dangerous the place the dingus resides is. Maybe there are two or three monsters known to be there that are super dangerous. They could actually try to use the save travel wish to pluck one of those monsters out of there and stash it somewhere else out of the way. That safe wish is super open ended! They could try to figure out which one of the monsters has the lowest SR and Will save, and they would know if they succeeded or failed with their attempt... but not if the monster escaped from where they put it. That could be fun! They'd still have to face it, and now it's potentially tracking and ambushing them, but the other members of its little team wouldn't also be there.

I suppose you could go the other route, and make it clear that you're about to screw with them... make the ring of three wishes cursed, or instead make it an extremely irate genie in a bottle. That would pretty much give you carte blanche to do whatever.

Anyway, I think you're right to worry about planting a wish with your PCs. Wishes are cool, but lots of the safe wishes are pretty tame with only one wish. It's hard to get exited about a +1 bonus to only one of the players, for example. I'd also worry about using the Savage Species wish to change form, or wishing for a magic item.

[farothel]

It also depends on your players. How well do they know the rules for a wish and how good are they at wording a wish. I for instance would never give it to one of my players, because I know he'll come up with something worded in such a way that it screws up everything for me and also worded in such a way as to take care of every contingency. Especially if he has time to think about it.

The safest way to proceed would indeed be as said before: have them be in a cursed kingdom or something that they are asked to help (assuming they are good alligned here). That way they will probably spent it on removing the curse. You are happy, they have done the good thing and since the kingdom probably is happy as well, they can get some goodies from them (which you control).

[weckar]

To me there is wish, the concept, and Wish the spell. The first is potentially much more powerful than the second, but also much more dangerous. If you want to introduce the former, make sure you want it part of your plot; because those are the wishes you are allowed to screw with.
For example, I once gave my players access to a vindictive genie-like creature that offered a wish every day at dawn. This was while they were on a several-months ship journey around the continent and gave them something to deal with along the way. The leader of the party eventually locked it up in the hold for all the trouble it caused, but along the way these were some of the highlights:

Wizard asked for a spellbook with EVERY spell in it, that she could still carry. To me the only logical way to do this was to make them all notated incredibly tiny. From this point on she could not read her spellbook at all anymore.
Barbarian was bored and asked for some true combat. A giant space whale nearly destroyed their ship that day, until they fecally suffocated it.
The Wizard, again, decided to ask for a really really good magnifying glass. Later that day, around noon, her spellbook was on fire.
Fighter (whose player was a law student) worked for a week to perfectly phrase the wish to obtain a sack of 10,000 platinum pieces, the currency, legally his, etc. This worked. Until they got ashore and he tried to spend it. He never said that his ownership was transferable. so the money became extremely clingy in many awful and hilarious ways.

They kept trying though, poor guys.

[Heliomance]

Wizard asked for a spellbook with EVERY spell in it, that she could still carry. To me the only logical way to do this was to make them all notated incredibly tiny. From this point on she could not read her spellbook at all anymore.


They kept trying though, poor guys.

This is what Scholar's Touch is for.

OP: Wish is TO complete (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384172-3-x-TO-complete). What that means is, if you can get a single Wish, you can bootstrap into unlimited power. Use the first Wish to get your hands on a Candle of Invocation, use that to Gate in an Efreet, and start Wishing away, always using your third Wish for a new Candle of Invocation. At this point, you can do anything you like, up to and including becoming Pun-pun. I don't say that this will happen - most players know enough to be a bit more sensible than that, and it's your prerogative as the DM to shut it down - but you asked for how badly it could mess up your game and that's the worst case scenario.

[Malapterus]

OP here. My players are largely new to 3.5 and only know 5E, where the power level is so low even Wish doesn't stand out.

The big thing about the dingus is that its is 1) protected from divination 2) in a teleport-proof zone and 3) the only one who knows where it is is an elder earth elemental who knows where it is because it is inside him.

My general thought on Wish is that if two level 8 spells or three 7-or-under working together can't do it, Wish can't do it.

The patron of the party is wealthy, wise, powerful, and ancient. I intend to make it clear that if you could just wish for the solution, she'd have done that.

I wonder if any if them will ever realize that her crown is basically a ring of 8 wishes...

[Mordaedil]

Well, not exactly. Wish can create a magic item with no value limit. This is in the standard powers (as in, no extra consequences). That can be extremely problematic. And since they are not casting it, they don't have to pay the XP. Yes, I know it is reasonable to assume there's a limit, but RAW there isn't one.

In general wish is better used as a thematic, really powerful plot device that the players utilise (remove a curse from the kingdom, bring prosperity to a village, etc). If it is used for raw power, it can really mess things up. However, it depends on your players. Most players who respect a balance in a game won't go crazy.

The wish variant rule in D&D wiki (Yes, that one of all places) is actually, surprisingly, quite good.

No value limit, but it does mention you spend double the normal cost in experience to create the item. Though I find it odd that it specifies a GP limit for a mundane item and none for magical items.

[Malapterus]

Oh, also people keep bringing up the candle of invocation. They forget the following:

1) the character has to know this item exists. It's hardly a common-knowledge sort of device.
2) they have to know how to use it. Are there instructions?
3) have to know what an Efreet is. Again, not a commonly-encountered monster.
4) they have to know why to summon it; detailed knowledge of its wish granting ability.
5) this candle summons an efreet, it doesn't create one. There's an ever-increasing chance that the efreet has already used his Wish for the year.
6) efreets are evil, they are demons. There's hardly a guarantee that they won't screw you and there's virtually a guarantee that they will.
7) the summoned efreet is an NPC controlled by the DM. He might refuse to make a deal and he might intentionally mess up your wish.

The infinte-wish-with-purchase-of-candle requires a level of GM permissiveness outdone only by pun-pun and the 'locate city' bomb. It wouldn't work in my game and you'd probably end up rolling a new character.

[Heliomance]

Oh, also people keep bringing up the candle of invocation. They forget the following:

1) the character has to know this item exists. It's hardly a common-knowledge sort of device.
2) they have to know how to use it. Are there instructions?
3) have to know what an Efreet is. Again, not a commonly-encountered monster.
4) they have to know why to summon it; detailed knowledge of its wish granting ability.
5) this candle summons an efreet, it doesn't create one. There's an ever-increasing chance that the efreet has already used his Wish for the year.
6) efreets are evil, they are demons. There's hardly a guarantee that they won't screw you and there's virtually a guarantee that they will.
7) the summoned efreet is an NPC controlled by the DM. He might refuse to make a deal and he might intentionally mess up your wish.

The infinte-wish-with-purchase-of-candle requires a level of GM permissiveness outdone only by pun-pun and the 'locate city' bomb. It wouldn't work in my game and you'd probably end up rolling a new character.

1) It's in the DMG, it's as well known as any magic item is
2) Again, it's a well known item in the relevant circles. Also, UMD exists.
3) This is what Knowledge: the Planes exists for
4) See 3)
5) That is very much a DM houserule - as written, it calls one exactly as it is written in the MM. Also, why ever-increasing? The Planes are infinite, there are probably an infinite number of efreet out there - or if not infinite, at least millions, so many that one person can't start making a statistically significant dent in them without exponentially increasing chain-Gate shenanigans.
6) Check the text of Gate. You control the efreet, it literally can't screw you
7) See 6), also check the text of Wish. The DM can only screw with your Wish if you're wishing for something outside the defined effects.

[RoboEmperor]

The infinte-wish-with-purchase-of-candle requires a level of GM permissiveness outdone only by pun-pun and the 'locate city' bomb. It wouldn't work in my game and you'd probably end up rolling a new character.

As Heliomance accurately put it you're wrong. It requires 0 permissiveness.

Don't try to rule lawyer something into not working, because you won't win, and there are 9999999999999 things that can break the game, and removing all of that will turn the game into E6 with no spellcasting.

So just ask your players to not break the game. There's nothing wrong with using a Candle of Invocation even for its Gate effect. It's only wrong if they use it for free wishes.

[J-H]

My players have been carrying around (and using) a Katana with 0/3 wishes. You can recharge a wish by slaying a genie with it.

No genies yet, but I know where one will be soon (if they find it).