Playing a kindhearted, but unlikable character.

[petermcleod117]

I want to play a character with a heart of gold but a personality like a surly cactus. Any suggestions?
He's a wizard who's part of a lawful good religious order (makes more sense in context), who is genuinely concerned with the welfare of everyone (regularly giving away his share of the treasure to the poor, ect), but I also want him to be incredibly abrasive and standoffish, so as to avoid making him a Gary Stu.

[Nifft]

Always focus on the big picture. Have no sympathy for individuals, only for building a system which serves them all better.

Talk down to everyone.

If someone has a problem, talk about how you had it worse, and how you overcame that (worse) problem to become the awesome wizard you are today. Behave like this is advice for which they should thank you.

Donate anonymously; criticize loudly and in public.

[Koo Rehtorb]

No one likes sarcasm.

[hymer]

https://media.giphy.com/media/ww97bydlOC7Xa/source.gif
Toby Ziegler of The West Wing. He also happens to be incredibly smart, which should suit a wizard.

[petermcleod117]

Always focus on the big picture. Have no sympathy for individuals, only for building a system which serves them all better.

Talk down to everyone.

If someone has a problem, talk about how you had it worse, and how you overcame that (worse) problem to become the awesome wizard you are today. Behave like this is advice for which they should thank you.

Donate anonymously; criticize loudly and in public.

Heh, that could work really well. He assumes that he's giving advice (which he sort of is, in a way), but he does so in a way that sounds really, really condescending out loud.
I think he HAS sympathy, but doesn't express it very well.
I mean, he does come from a monastary, so when it comes to being robbed or relationship troubles he probably won't have any sympathy at all, though he'll still try to help.
he's sort of like the "back in my day" guy, but instead of "my day" it's "my monastary".


Donate anonymously; criticize loudly and in public.

^THIS is probably the best part of the advice, because that's what his order is SUPPOSED to do. He'll probably pick fights with nobles who he thinks are living too excessively, or on pastors who he thinks aren't doing enough for their parish, but do it in the most obnoxious manner possible, all the while doing all he can in secret to support order and help the poor. He practices what he preaches, but he preaches obnoxiously and practices secretly, so he just comes off as a jackass.

[petermcleod117]

No one likes sarcasm.

should be easy enough to incorporate.

[petermcleod117]

https://media.giphy.com/media/ww97bydlOC7Xa/source.gif
Toby Ziegler of The West Wing. He also happens to be incredibly smart, which should suit a wizard.

I haven't seen the show. Could you give me a general rundown of his personality traits?

[Blymurkla]

Be open towards your fellow players. Tell them you want to play a kindhearted but unlikable character.

If you don't, I think there's a considerable risk that they're only going to see the unlikable traits of your character and jump to the conclusion than not only your character but you yourself is kind of a douche.

In play, let this kindheartedness show. Perhaps the character is nearly always foul-mouthed, unkind, bad-tempered or what-ever to other characters, but as a player you have another tool - internal monologue. It's not often used - for good reasons, RPGs are a cooperative game of dialouge - but small glimpses into the mind of a character can be used for superb effect when portraying characters. As you describe what your character does and give voice to him or her (you know, the normal stuff that constitutes roleplaying), give the table a snippet of how your character feels.

[hymer]

I haven't seen the show. Could you give me a general rundown of his personality traits?
Toby feels things very deeply, and he has a powerful sense of justice and principle. In combination, this makes him very easily disappointed in other people. All this frustration (not from tilting at windmills, he readily goes into fights expecting to lose; as he says "It's not the ones we lose that bother me, it's the ones we don't suit up for!") makes him angry, impatient, and short-tempered.
He usually expresses himself with a savage, cutting wit and biting sarcasm. But he is not above outright rage.
Even with people he respects deeply, he keeps hoping for more from them, and so keeps pushing - or he pointedly doesn't push.
People he has no respect for (because of their lack of morality) know him as a pain in the fundament. He intentionally cultivates that reputation, using it to intimidate people into doing the right thing.
He is at his most prickly when he feels he must choose between his principles and doing good. He will choose doing good, but it puts him fiercely on edge to do so.
His righteous indignation sometimes makes him furiously fearless. He once accused the US president of treasonous behaviour. To his face. In a raised voice. Inside the Oval Office. This was a remarkable act, and showed one of his best qualities: the ability to speak truth to power. It also showed, I think, why he was the second choice to the position he holds: because he is so abrasive.
Toby also has some very powerful pet-the-dog moments. It's easy to forget what he does and why, but he reminds people around him (and the viewers) every now and again. And he doesn't want credit for doing these things, and he might even go out of his way to hide them. The happiest we see Toby (not counting family moments) is when he, at first singlehandedly, starts a policy, which he will get no credit for at all, and which vastly improves the lives of millions of people.

I'd recommend watching the show sometime. It's witty, interesting, relevant, and outrageously well made, well written, and well acted.

[hotflungwok]

Like Beldin from the Belgariad?

[Mastikator]

Always focus on the big picture. Have no sympathy for individuals, only for building a system which serves them all better.


I disagree with this. Being kindhearted means empathy and compassion. If you only focus on the big picture and don't sympathize with individuals then you're good for ideological reasons and not because you have a kind heart.

The rest: yes. Just be rude and obnoxious and people will overlook any good or kind deeds you do.

[Nightcanon]

I disagree with this. Being kindhearted means empathy and compassion. If you only focus on the big picture and don't sympathize with individuals then you're good for ideological reasons and not because you have a kind heart.

The rest: yes. Just be rude and obnoxious and people will overlook any good or kind deeds you do.

Hmm. Not sure that being rude and obnoxious is compatible with your requirement for empathy and compassion.
To the OP: you are a wizard, so you are incredibly intelligent, and see the world clearly. You find other people incredibly frustrating when they can't see past the end of their noses, or won't what you consider to be obvious steps.
You are motivated by things other than worldly wealth or power, so while you haven't necessarily taken a Vow of Poverty, you disdain worldly comforts and channel your wealth into doing good (may still mean spending it on researching spells or creating items which increase your own power); you may be dismissive those on your side who cannot let go of their comfy houses and fine clothes to join you in the Good Fight.
For a literary example, Granny Weatherwax of Terry Pratchett's Discworld comes to mind.

[Mastikator]

Hmm. Not sure that being rude and obnoxious is compatible with your requirement for empathy and compassion.

You could just have no self awareness and not realize that you're being rude and obnoxious. There's plenty of those people floating around. That is not at all incompatible with having a kind heart.

[legomaster00156]

I played a character like this. (Well, he started out as entirely amoral, but slowly morphed into someone who actually cares about other people after meeting a good deity.) The main thing I did was have him just not care what other people think of his personality. He was abrasive, sarcastic, and utterly stuck up about his own superior intellect and magical talent. In secret, he gave generously to the church of a good deity, spent considerable time and wealth to help out the party, and most notably sought to build an arcane academy that welcomed students for extremely affordable tuition (which he even assisted, for those with sorcerous powers like himself). He also adopted an orphaned magical prodigy and trained him as best as he could, creating a wizard of considerable skill to help out during the final battle.
Basically, a personality like sandpaper doesn't prevent you from doing good deeds. :smallbiggrin:

[Capt Spanner]

Play them a mirror to the villain with good publicity.

The villain with good publicity is kind and polite in public. But in private they are ruthless and appalling. You can mirror this by being headstrong and unyielding in public, but showing generosity and kindness in private.

There are certainly some ways you can approach this neatly. Being extremely protective of yourself, and what you care about (both people and things) works as a good motivation for being unyielding and headstrong. "Don't you ever dare touch my trinkets", or playing bad cop when the situation requires. Whatever challenge your facing is more important than a few hurt feelings, so don't shy away from telling people to get their act together, and being blunt with them.

Then in private, do the opposite. You have time, so there's time to pay attention to niceties, and no external pressure. If anyone ever says "Ah, gee, you're not so bad" remember to reply "Shhh! Don't tell anyone that. I have a reputation to uphold!"

[Spore]

It is a lot like I am in real life sometimes. Just give advice where none was requested. Starting off with:

"You really look ugly in that dress, maybe try one that better hides your fat." over to "Your senate is **** and you should all be reelected with the following changes to your STUPID electory system." ending off in "Oh come on. Don't follow his lead. Just because he is charismatic doesn't mean a doom fortress is the best thing to make out of the old castle on top of the hills. Have you even listened to him? He wants a moat filled with acid. ACID for christ's sake. That just spells evil overlord."

Of course that is hammy overdone fantasy clichés. Be the guy that tells it how it is, regardless of how popular it is. Imagine George Carlin. Also remember unlikeable doesn't mean uncharismatic. It is usually the opposite. He or she just has strong opinions that he doesn't filter as well.

[petermcleod117]

"Oh come on. Don't follow his lead. Just because he is charismatic doesn't mean a doom fortress is the best thing to make out of the old castle on top of the hills. Have you even listened to him? He wants a moat filled with acid. ACID for christ's sake. That just spells evil overlord."
http://slideplayer.com/slide/218538/1/images/1/Listen+--+strange+women+lying+in+ponds+distributing+swords+ is+no+basis+for+a+system+of+government..jpg

[TeChameleon]

Wizards do seem to lend themselves to this mold- my longest-played character is a wizard who genuinely wants to do good and make things better for as many people as he can, and will put his life on the line for others without the slightest hesitation; he also considers it perfectly acceptable to light someone on fire to teach them a lesson ("What? There's a cleric right there."), has basically zero filter and even less interest in acquiring one, is blunter than a sledgehammer to the back of the head, and has such an incredibly knack for saying the wrong thing that the rest of the party considers him being prevented from speaking a bonus to diplomacy rolls.

He's pretty much universally highly respected amongst PCs and NPCs alike, but I don't think anybody really likes him. Which is just fine by him, the antisocial git :smalltongue:

[Jay R]

I urge you to read books about Granny Weatherwax from Terry Pratchett's Discworld series.


Equal Rites
Wyrd Sisters
Witches Abroad
Lords and Ladies
Maskerade
Carpe Jugulum

[petermcleod117]

thanks for all the suggestions. this will be very helpful.

[Spore]

thanks for all the suggestions. this will be very helpful.

Just a thing most people tend to overlook. The character can be very likeable to the audience (i.e. players and DM) but not be liked in character. You don't need to kick some random puppies just to create a strong enough dichotomy between your image and your personality.