Wall of Force vs Stone vs Fire

[Xenothelm]

In the case of a Lv10 Glamour Bard with a team of 4 melee allies and an off-tank cleric, which Wall spell would you take for the coveted Magical Secrets spot?

Wall of Force
-Can enclose flying targets
-Blocks ethereal travel but not teleport spells (misty step, teleport, etc)
-Takes no damage except by forcing use of Disintegrate
-OOC utility

Wall of Stone
-Allows a DEX saving throw to escape initial enclosure
-The fact that it can be broken (AC 15/30 HP) invites use of action economy spent trying to break it
-Requires "existing stone" (can be used indoors?)
-OOC utility (permanent structures)

Wall of Fire
-Valuable AoE damage that is lacking in this team comp
-Lower spell slot investment (Rank 4)
-Lasts 1 min instead of 10
-Certain spells/attacks may still pass through if trying to wall defensively

Feel free to add other pros/cons!

[Willie the Duck]

What is your other spell selection?

I am a strong fan of not making one's magic secrets be the same level, so if you have your eye on a different L5, then I would argue for Wall of Fire. If not, Stone and Force each have strong arguments (the 'invites use of action economy spent trying to break it' being a huge one for Stone).

[Xenothelm]

What is your other spell selection.

It’s gonna have to be counterspell; I’m the only one with access to it besides our hex blade and he only has so many spell slots to play with lol

I should also have synaptic static by that point but I want to make sure I’m utilizing the concentration debuffing aspect of it and not just as a damage spell

[Wildarm]

In the case of a Lv10 Glamour Bard with a team of 4 melee allies and an off-tank cleric, which Wall spell would you take for the coveted Magical Secrets spot?

Wall of Force
-Can enclose flying targets
-Blocks ethereal travel but not teleport spells (misty step, teleport, etc)
-Takes no damage except by forcing use of Disintegrate
-OOC utility

Wall of Stone
-Allows a DEX saving throw to escape initial enclosure
-The fact that it can be broken (AC 15/30 HP) invites use of action economy spent trying to break it
-Requires "existing stone" (can be used indoors?)
-OOC utility (permanent structures)

Wall of Fire
-Valuable AoE damage that is lacking in this team comp
-Lower spell slot investment (Rank 4)
-Lasts 1 min instead of 10
-Certain spells/attacks may still pass through if trying to wall defensively

Feel free to add other pros/cons!

Wall of Force by a landslide. Being able to isolate enemies or provide a retreat option with few counters is very strong. Your group is mostly melee. Being able to wall off a group of ranged attackers while your team takes out the front liners is very strong.

[Xenothelm]

Being able to wall off a group of ranged attackers while your team takes out the front liners is very strong.

I do like this, ugh I just want all 3 XD

[sophontteks]

It’s gonna have to be counterspell; I’m the only one with access to it besides our hex blade and he only has so many spell slots to play with lol

I should also have synaptic static by that point but I want to make sure I’m utilizing the concentration debuffing aspect of it and not just as a damage spell
Don't forget that you get to add half your profeciency bonus to your counterspell checks a la jack of all trades. You can do this with telekinesis too, but its competing with your wall idea.

Otherwise, wall of force by a mile.

[Xenothelm]

Don't forget that you get to add half your profeciency bonus to your counterspell checks

Would you consider Circle of Power over Counterspell?

[sophontteks]

Would you consider Circle of Power over Counterspell?
I wouldn't. It sounds like a great spell but it requires concentration and a 5th level slot.

[Xenothelm]

I wouldn't. It sounds like a great spell but it requires concentration and a 5th level slot.

Yea there’s a looot of other stuff competing for concentration at any given time...

[nickl_2000]

Would you consider Circle of Power over Counterspell?

Counterspell on a Bard is absolutely amazing. It is very, very difficult to beat it (especially since no one else has it). Pretty much nothing should replace this.

[Jerrykhor]

There's a wise saying: 'Wall of Force is the only wall spell that matters'.

And its true. A wall spell that anyone can simply walk through is not really a wall (more like a curtain?), therefore most of them don't even qualify.

[Rixitichil]

Wall of Stone. But I really like the idea of building my own fortress/tower.

[Kane0]

I'd take stone. It blocks sight, tempts people to waste actions/resources getting through it and can be permanent.

[Temperjoke]

I like the flexibility of Wall of Force, since it can be a sphere or dome as well as a wall, you can use it for more variety. For example, you could enclose your party in a sphere to buy a little time, if the room you're in starts flooding. Since you can make the wall at any angle, you could make a ramp on any surface, not just stone.

[Draken]

Wall of Force is probably just better, unless the permanency aspect of Wall of Stone is likely to ever become useful (adventurers build castle, stop being adventurers, become dungeon masters instead). Wall of Fire doesn't belong in the same lineup.

Should also note that each section of wall of stone has either 90 hp or 180 hp, not 30.

[hymer]

Wall of Force is the most dependable of the options. Wall of Fire is the only one that deals damage. Wall of Stone would be for the option of building stuff.

How are your allies on control effects? Any Shield Masters who can shove people into the AoE of a Wall of Fire? Or some with warlock levels who can shove people with Eldritch Blasts? Stuff like that? If there are at least one who likes to shove enemies around, I'd go with Wall of Fire. If not, I'd go with Wall of Force. But if I wanted to build castles and stuff, I'd go with Wall of Stone.

[samcifer]

Can a wall of force be used like a bridge the way wall of stone can, though?

[Draken]

Can a wall of force be used like a bridge the way wall of stone can, though?

More easily, because you have more freedom to place it.

[Xenothelm]

How are your allies on control effects? Any Shield Masters who can shove people into the AoE of a Wall of Fire? Or some with warlock levels who can shove people with Eldritch Blasts? Stuff like that? If there are at least one who likes to shove enemies around, I'd go with Wall of Fire. If not, I'd go with Wall of Force. But if I wanted to build castles and stuff, I'd go with Wall of Stone.

We’re gonna hit lv4 soon so I’ll see what our shield users end up taking for feats. We don’t have a druid and our Warlock is a Hexblade focusing on melee dps/utility invocations. So maybe Wall of Force lol

[VoxRationis]

My campaign's received a lot of benefit from Wall of Stone thanks to its ability to make permanent structures. One time, we used it to quickly make a bunker which we then covered with snow and used as a base of operations for our mission of sabotage and espionage against a military base. We wouldn't have been able to make such a bunker without Wall of Stone, thanks to our short period of available time and the high altitude preventing a true dugout. We later used the spell to make a shelter on a high mountain climb. Another time, we used the fact that it summons actual stone, with actual mass, to exacerbate damage which had been done to a stone bridge. There's a lot of versatility in that spell.

[Zanthy1]

I'm a big fan of Wall of Stone. It lacks some of the versatility of Force, in that it needs to connect to other stone, but the permanency thing is fantastic, and forcing something to use action economy to attempt to break it is awesome (though i'll admit Force is better in this respect).

[BoxANT]

unless you are going for some earthen flavor, wall of force is the superior option