CR 0 Monster Homunculus Under Rated?

[MarkVIIIMarc]

I was looking at these little fellows and my first thought was that for a CR0 bad guy they sure can mess things up for a party if a big bad guy has enough of them to help.

For one they are great scouts.

Then if deployed by the half dozen they sure can take a PC or two out of the battle, or waste the PC's time trying to kill them

https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Homunculus#content

What do you all think?

[Sigreid]

The spell to create them says specifically that you can only have one.

[Man_Over_Game]

The spell to create them says specifically that you can only have one.
There's no spell that says you can control an army of goblins, but that doesn't stop them from being the most common encounter. Bad guys have abilities that players don't. Mostly, this has to do with balance and maintaining fun/fluidity as a game, but also it's because the badguys are willing to go through lengths that would disqualify a hero from...well, being a hero.


Lichs exist, after all, despite players having no way of becoming one. Who's to say that there's no way to control multiple homunculi that requires someone else's maximum hitpoints?

[Millstone85]

Nevermind the spell from XGtE.

The MM says that you can only have one homunculus.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Nevermind the spell from XGtE.

The MM says that you can only have one homunculus.

Drat, it does. Good catch. That is probably to keep them from being overpowering!

I guess 5 bad guys can each have one though....

[JackPhoenix]

You can do the same thing more efficiently (in the terms of spell slots, money and hit points) by arming a bunch of commoners with daggers or crossbow bolts coated in drow poison. The poison will also have higher save DC, and you may make certain PCs hesitant to just wipe them all out with a single Fireball.

[willdaBEAST]

Ignoring whether or not you can have more than one Homunculus, make sure you do some kind of calculation for a group or gang of monsters in terms of calculating CR.

http://dhmstark.co.uk/rpgs/encounter-calculator-5th/ suggests a multiplier of x2.5 for a group of 5 and x3 for a group of 10. So 6 Homunculus would count as 150 XP instead of 60 XP and as a 1/2 CR encounter.

[Callak_Remier]

A Homunculus is just an extension of a spell casters will. Like a better non combat familiar

[Grod_The_Giant]

The PCs have to fail a DC 5 save to be knocked out. After being hit in melee by something with 5 HP. Otherwise all they can do is slap you with a minor debuff.

Annoying, sure. Threat, not really.

[Segev]

The PCs have to fail a DC 5 save to be knocked out. After being hit in melee by something with 5 HP. Otherwise all they can do is slap you with a minor debuff.

Annoying, sure. Threat, not really.

He did imply a swarm of the things. Send 20 of them at somebody, and they only have a 35% chance of not rolling a nat 1 on one of the saving throws (assuming, admittedly, all of them hit).

[Monster Manuel]

You can do the same thing more efficiently (in the terms of spell slots, money and hit points) by arming a bunch of commoners with daggers or crossbow bolts coated in drow poison.Fireball.

Seconding this. Casting 'Hire Skilled Mercenary" has a materials cost of only 2GP, and lasts for a full day. You can even cast it as a ritual, so it costs you no spell slots, and you can continue casting until your gold, or the available targets, have run out. You're generally restricted to casting it in a decent-sized town or city, but what you get out of it is comparable to the Homonculus, at least, if not better.

The Homonculus is pretty cool (Junior's First Golem, basically). The fly speed and the telepathic bond are pretty sweet. But certainly not overpowered.

[AureusFulgens]

Seconding this. Casting 'Hire Skilled Mercenary" has a materials cost of only 2GP, and lasts for a full day. You can even cast it as a ritual, so it costs you no spell slots, and you can continue casting until your gold, or the available targets, have run out. You're generally restricted to casting it in a decent-sized town or city, but what you get out of it is comparable to the Homonculus, at least, if not better.


This one is for the quote board. If there were a quote board. There should be.

[JNAProductions]

He did imply a swarm of the things. Send 20 of them at somebody, and they only have a 35% chance of not rolling a nat 1 on one of the saving throws (assuming, admittedly, all of them hit).

Nat 1s do not auto-fail saves.

[Segev]

Nat 1s do not auto-fail saves.

o_O They don't!? So nat 1s now only auto-fail to-hit? Or do they not fail then, either?

[JNAProductions]

Attack rolls only auto pass and fail on 20s and 1s.

[Segev]

Attack rolls only auto pass and fail on 20s and 1s.

To make sure I'm parsing you right: only attack rolls, and nothing else, have auto pass/fail on 20/1. Right?

[JackPhoenix]

To make sure I'm parsing you right: only attack rolls, and nothing else, have auto pass/fail on 20/1. Right?

Right.

Well, technically, if you're rolling at all, 20 is always success and 1 is always failure, because if you can't succeed on 20 or fail on 1, there's no point in rolling in the first place. Attack rolls are specific exception.

[Segev]

Right.

Well, technically, if you're rolling at all, 20 is always success and 1 is always failure, because if you can't succeed on 20 or fail on 1, there's no point in rolling in the first place. Attack rolls are specific exception.

Saving throws are something I'd have expected to get a similar exception for the same reason, since they're basically attack rolls in reverse.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Saving throws are something I'd have expected to get a similar exception for the same reason, since they're basically attack rolls in reverse.
I think they did in 3.5?

In any case, 5e makes big swarms of anything a challenge. I bet a dozen Crawling Claws will take down a party of lv 1's faster than a dozen Homunculi.

[Maxilian]

What do you all think?

I think they are as good as any other low CR monster in high quantities, not that good, but a threat if there are enough of them.

Note: Have in mind, that high lvl PC will most likely never fail their save, as the CD is way too low, and there is no such thing as critical fail (for anything) or auto miss for Saves.