View Full Version : A good use of Warmage?

2007-09-17, 09:49 PM
So, I was thinking about it, and I think I possibly found a Warmage use. We all know that Blasting is best done spontaneously, as elemental resistances can be quite discouraging for a prepared caster. So, here's a question for you guys...

Would Ultimate Magus do well to combine Warmage and Wizard? You'll get he blasting power of a Warmage, and the utility of a Wizard. Obviously, putting more focus on the Wizard, since blasting's really secondhand.

I know, Warmage is generally considered worthless, due to it's inflexability, but if you combine it with a wizard in this mix, would it work? I'm not totally sure. Personally, Evocation is a fun school for me, but with a Wizard, not so much. As a Sorcerer, I love it, but you still only know so many spells. Any thoughts?

Merlin the Tuna
2007-09-17, 09:56 PM
The Warmage is not useless. Uncreative, maybe, but not useless. He's always got the best hammer for the job, and Sudden Metamagic (and his rule on picking up alternate Sudden Metamagics) mean that he can spike his damage and scope up exactly when he needs to. That direct damage is not the best side of magic does not change the fact that he's really good at it.

That aside, it does make for a pretty solid UM side. Blasting spells, while neither subtle nor clever, always contribute as long as you have one the enemy doesn't resist -- and that's never a problem for the Warmage, who's got one of everything and then some. He's also got a select few control spells that are strikingly good (Evard's!), which further lets you play around with interesting spells for the Wizard side. And there's a bit of Int synergy to be had. I'd argue that it's better than a Sorc for UM, easily.

2007-09-17, 09:59 PM
IMO Beguiler is much better than Warmage with Ultimate Magus for general utlitiy and fueling meta particularly in a skill based campaign.

There is the primary ability Intelligence synergy, more skill points (6) at level one multiplied by 4 before the intelligence modifier.

I like the sorcerer class but Beguilers get many of the top 10 spells for a generalist sorcerer by level but know quite a few more. The wizard side can pick up any spells the Beguiler side is weak on.

A level 1 Beguiler has Charm Person, Color Spray, Silent Image, Sleep and Whelm plus others.

Level 2 Beguiler spells include Blinding Color Surge, Detect Thoughts, Invisibility, Mirror Image, See Invisibility, Silence and Whelming Burst plus others.

Level 3 Beguiler Spells include Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Glibness, Hold Person, Legion of Sentinels, Major Image, Slow and Suggestion plus others.

2007-09-17, 10:13 PM
I never bother to play a warmage myself, but I do like them as cohorts and the generals of my legions of 1st level followers.

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-17, 10:29 PM
Warmages aren't a bad class at all, they just aren't primary arcanists. You should be fine using it for Ultimate Magus, though balancing Intelligence and Charisma might hurt a bit.

2007-09-17, 11:53 PM
Theurge builds are a trap.

1) You have a metric ton of spells per day. At 10th level, a generic Wizard has 16 1st through 5th level spells. Thats enough to cast a spell 4 rounds in a row every combat for four combats. (Assuming your DM even follows the DMG suggested guidelines for encounters per game day - most DMs use less). If by some miraculous chance you run out of spells, you have Wands and other items to fall back on.

2) D&D is not a 1 person game. You're in a party. Other people in the party can do things as well. You don't need to do everything poorly. You need to do a few things well, and just talk to your party about who will do what.

3) Using an Wizard/Warmage/Ultimate Magus (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070306), your caster level would suffer a lot. You'll never use your many spells per day, you'll rarely have a need to fill every party niche, and you'll be casting spells one or two levels slower then everyone else at your ECL.

Warmages are archers that make things explode. They're simple, fun to play for one or two sessions, and fill a helpful (though not necessary) party role. Certainly they're on the shallow side of the D&D gene pool, and could use the help. But I don't think that diluting their spells further will do that somehow.

2007-09-18, 12:11 AM
Perhaps I should have clarified...

Warmage/Wizard/Ultimate Magus would be a fitting mixture of Spontaneous and Prepared casting, and while knowingly not optimised to maximum potential, could be a fun mix to play, and keep effectiveness.

I realize the problems with optimization, but that's not the point I was going for.

Merlin the Tuna
2007-09-18, 12:45 AM
With Practiced Spellcaster, UM is a great class. You'd be sacrificing one level of Wizard casting for about 8 of Warmage casting, plus you'd get some goodies along the way. Thanks to its easy qualification, worthwhile class features, and Practiced Spellcaster, UM is an exception to the rule of theurges being traps.