How many options do you have for "killing" a Bigsby's Hand?

[holywhippet]

Since a Bigsby's Hand is an object and not a creature it means most spells simply can't target it? Fireballs won't work, lightning bolts won't either. Fire bolts will work since they can target objects but eldritch blasts can't.

Does that mean the best way you can "kill" one is with a direct physical attacks?

[Unoriginal]

IMO I would just target the caster.

[Zalabim]

Do you have to kill it? Because Dispel Magic. If you have to kill it, you mentioned Fire Bolt, and there's also Shatter, Chain Lightning, Firestorm, and Storm of Vengeance plus Meteor Swarm that will damage objects off the top of my head.

[MaxWilson]

Since a Bigsby's Hand is an object and not a creature it means most spells simply can't target it? Fireballs won't work, lightning bolts won't either. Fire bolts will work since they can target objects but eldritch blasts can't.

"Can't under strict RAW" isn't the same as "can't under a sane DM." In all probability you can do all those things with any given DM. The DMs who forbid it are DMs you probably don't want to play with anyway--they'll make other weird rulings too.

[Mikal]

"Can't under strict RAW" isn't the same as "can't under a sane DM." In all probability you can do all those things with any given DM. The DMs who forbid it are DMs you probably don't want to play with anyway--they'll make other weird rulings too.

Yeah, cause DMs who follow the rules as written are sooooo weird.

[Vogie]

Does that mean the best way you can "kill" one is with a direct physical attacks?

It is not stated it is a magic object... so Shatter should work.

[MaxWilson]

Yeah, cause DMs who follow the rules as written are sooooo weird.

Cause when I say, "I kill the big scary hand with my Eldritch Blast!" a DM who says, "You can't, it's not technically a creature, and Eldritch Blast says it only works on 'creatures'" is weird. I mean, it would be one thing if I cast Eldritch Blast at it and it's immune somehow, but to say, "You can't even cast it because of [technicality X]", really? You pulled me out of the game to talk about game jargon? If you can't provide a reason "why not?" in roleplaying terms instead of Magic: the Gathering terms, clearly you can't provide a good reason at all.

Don't play with DMs like that.

Now, a DM who has thought things through and has a good, in-character REASON why Eldritch Blast won't work--that's completely different and 100% fine. But that isn't what I'm criticizing here.

[NaughtyTiger]

Cause when I say, "I kill the big scary hand with my Eldritch Blast!" a DM who says, "You can't, it's not technically a creature, and Eldritch Blast says it only works on 'creatures'" is weird. I mean, it would be one thing if I cast Eldritch Blast at it and it's immune somehow, but to say, "You can't even cast it because of [technicality X]", really? You pulled me out of the game to talk about game jargon? If you can't provide a reason "why not?" in roleplaying terms instead of Magic: the Gathering terms, clearly you can't provide a good reason at all.

Don't play with DMs like that.

Now, a DM who has thought things through and has a good, in-character REASON why Eldritch Blast won't work--that's completely different and 100% fine. But that isn't what I'm criticizing here.

The designers have made it clear that Eldritch Blast can only target creatures was designed that way intentionally.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/748892257483386880
"Some spells are drawn to or harm only the life force of creatures. You're not shooting projectiles."

[DMThac0]

The designers have made it clear that Eldritch Blast can only target creatures was designed that way intentionally.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/748892257483386880
"Some spells are drawn to or harm only the life force of creatures. You're not shooting projectiles."

Even with that being said, I could see something more along the lines of "You watch as the Eldrich blast, magic missile, ray of frost, strikes the hand, however it appears that it had little or no effect."

It's a giant freaking hand...and for some reason I can't point my hand at it and release magical energy...because Crawford and rules!

[NaughtyTiger]

Even with that being said, I could see something more along the lines of "You watch as the Eldrich blast, magic missile, ray of frost, strikes the hand, however it appears that it had little or no effect."

It's a giant freaking hand...and for some reason I can't point my hand at it and release magical energy...because Crawford and rules!

I don't understand what point you are making.

Are you saying that you prefer the narrative that the "object is immune to the damage from EB" instead of Crawford's narrative "EB harms only the life force of creatures"?
or are you saying you would prefer that EB affects the object?

[DMThac0]

I don't understand what point you are making.

Are you saying that you prefer the narrative that the "object is immune to the damage from EB" instead of Crawford's narrative "EB harms only the life force of creatures"?
or are you saying you would prefer that EB affects the object?

I'm saying that the hand would be immune rather than you can't target it.

You could go so far as to say that the force of magical energy striking magical energy had some visual indication but the hand suffers no damage, but that is purely narrative flair vs mechanical effect. Most players will figure out what can/can't work by using those types of narrative cues. As well, whether or not you can target the hand, the spell slot will be effectively used (assuming it's not a cantrip) so it doesn't really change the end result.

[NaughtyTiger]

I'm saying that the hand would be immune rather than you can't target it.

You could go so far as to say that the force of magical energy striking magical energy had some visual indication but the hand suffers no damage, but that is purely narrative flair vs mechanical effect. Most players will figure out what can/can't work by using those types of narrative cues. As well, whether or not you can target the hand, the spell slot will be effectively used (assuming it's not a cantrip) so it doesn't really change the end result.

Okay, I get it.
My only concern is that it is immune to EB, but not to force damage in general. I think of resistance, immunity, vulnerability as by damage type, not specific spell or weapon. Would the players then avoid magic missile?

[Man_Over_Game]

A few odd questions: How much does Bigby's Hand weigh? Does it obey fall damage?

Because I have a level 1 spell in mind that's perfect for moving really light objects REALLY FAR in any direction (including "up").

[NaughtyTiger]

A few odd questions: How much does Bigby's Hand weigh? Does it obey fall damage?

the spell does not specify.
it is a "hand of force"
you can move it 60ft in any direction,

i interpret that as no weight, no gravity

[Man_Over_Game]

the spell does not specify.
it is a "hand of force"
you can move it 60ft in any direction,

i interpret that as no weight, no gravity

So if it has no weight, I could just Catapult it 90 feet away? Seems legit. Or I guess I could just launch the damn thing back at its owner. Would be kind of amusing to see a wizard get pimp slapped by his own spell.

This gives me some crazy ideas, actually. I made a question about this on RPG Stack Exchange if anyone's interested for some formal answers.

https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/133933/what-would-happen-if-i-tried-to-launch-bigbys-hand-with-catapult

[DMThac0]

Okay, I get it.
My only concern is that it is immune to EB, but not to force damage in general. I think of resistance, immunity, vulnerability as by damage type, not specific spell or weapon. Would the players then avoid magic missile?

Assuming the caster targeted the hand with MM, then the hand would receive the spell. If the players were to try to use it as cover, well MM doesn't really concern itself with that.


So if it has no weight, I could just Catapult it 90 feet away? Seems legit. Or I guess I could just launch the damn thing back at its owner. Would be kind of amusing to see a wizard get pimp slapped by his own spell.

That is an interesting thought, as the Hand mimics the casters hand...I imagine that it would be a concentration check on the caster of the Bigsby's Hand to maintain the spell's position vs the catapult caster's DC. If the hand is launched the caster's hand flails in that direction and the spell is potentially cut short.

[NaughtyTiger]

Assuming the caster targeted the hand with MM, then the hand would receive the spell. If the players were to try to use it as cover, well MM doesn't really concern itself with that.

whoops, i forgot MM also tagged creatures. pretend i said shadow blade or mordakins sword.
i would still be concerned that the player would interpret that it was immune to force


...
uh. uh. dang... i like it.

[DMThac0]

whoops, i forgot MM also tagged creatures. pretend i said shadow blade or mordakins sword.
i would still be concerned that the player would interpret that it was immune to force


As with EB, Mordenkainen's Sword would strike the BH and there would be some visual indication that there was contact. In this case the two would act much like a large rock hitting the sidewalk, a thunk, a visual energy ripple, and both objects just remain stationary.



uh. uh. dang... i like it.

Right?!

----

One thing I'd like to note: I use a very specific description when it comes to Force objects, with the exception of MM, so that players can start to intuitively know if they're working with that type of energy.

Mage Hand, Wall of Force, Mordenkainen's Sword, etc, I explain that it is a hazy shape of the object in question almost like the heat rising off of hot metal. That almost imperceptible wavy movement, you're not sure if it's there, but you swear you saw it. By doing this I can also start to help players make informed decisions based on that type of narrative cue as well. So, after a few dozen force objects are encountered, and they finally realize Disintegrate works, well...we have a solution...sort of.

[holywhippet]

It is not stated it is a magic object... so Shatter should work.

The general rule for D&D 5th for "is something magical" includes that if it is produced by spending a spell slot. Bigby's hand is produced via casting a spell so it qualifies as magical IMO.

The flipside of the question which I should have asked before is that if you treat the hand as a regular creature and not an object then non-damage spells should be able to work on it. Haste, dominate monster, blindness/deafness etc. would be able to work on it when really they shouldn't.

[Zalabim]

whoops, i forgot MM also tagged creatures. pretend i said shadow blade or mordakins sword.
i would still be concerned that the player would interpret that it was immune to force
Ahem, the obvious example of "It works on objects and does force damage" is Bigby's Hand itself. Fistbump.


uh. uh. dang... i like it.
Normally I'd expect a large object to weigh too much, but I like it too. You could catapult a Hand both offensively and defensively, if you were so inclined.

[Man_Over_Game]

I actually made a mistake on that, guys. Sorry.

Bigby's hand has no defined weight.

Catapult requires that the object weighs between 1-5 pounds. Bigby's hand weight is definitely either =0 or >5.

However, Bigby can grapple things, so if it can hold one pound, it MIGHT be a possible candidate for Catapult.
I'm asking a formal question on RPG Stack Exchange as to whether a 1/2 lb container holding 3 lbs of stuff is considered eligible or not. It's a bit of a rabbit hole, but I want to see how far down it goes.

[NaughtyTiger]

I actually made a mistake on that, guys. Sorry.

Bigby's hand has no defined weight.

Catapult requires that the object weighs between 1-5 pounds. Bigby's hand weight is definitely either =0 or >5.

However, Bigby can grapple things, so if it can hold one pound, it MIGHT be a possible candidate for Catapult.
I'm asking a formal question on RPG Stack Exchange as to whether a 1/2 lb container holding 3 lbs of stuff is considered eligible or not. It's a bit of a rabbit hole, but I want to see how far down it goes.

Ug, the internet lied again. (i thought you were golden, version i read said "up to 5 pounds" but that may be to avoid copyright).

[Man_Over_Game]

Ug, the internet lied again. (i thought you were golden, version i read said "up to 5 pounds" but that may be to avoid copyright).

Yep, I know the exact version you're talking about. Great resource, but not 100% accurate on the "flavor" part of things.

[EDIT] Aaaaaaand Fixed! So now nobody will be led astray!