Construct/shillelagh interaction

[Frost_Ambush]

Would a wooden construct be able to cast shillelagh on themselves? Would it affect their unarmed attacks?

[SodaQueen]

Ruled as written, no:


For the duration, you can use your spellcasting ability instead of Strength for a club or quarterstaff you touch, and the weapon's damage die becomes a d8.

The spell specifies a club or quarterstaff as the target. I'd probably allow it in my games though. It's hardly game breaking.

[nickl_2000]

RAW? No they can't cast it on themselves as they are neither a Club or Quarterstaff per the wording of the spell Shillelagh.


By RAF? Ask your DM, they may allow it (I would consider it myself).

[Frost_Ambush]

Yeah, my dm is all for it. The only reason we’re debating is this would be druid/monk multiclass. Which would basicly give me an 11th level monk unarmed hit die at druid1/monk1.

[nickl_2000]

Yeah, my dm is all for it. The only reason we’re debating is this would be druid/monk multiclass. Which would basically give me an 11th level monk unarmed hit die at druid1/monk1.

So think of it this way at level 2 with wisdom 16 (+3), Dex 15 (+2)

Round cast Shillelagh on Club or self. Attack 1d8 + wis - Average 7.5 damage
Round 2 attack once with Shillelagh Club, bonus action unarmed strike - Average 1d8+wis + 1d4 +dex - 7.5 + 4.5 = 12 damage
Round 2 attack once with Shillelagh Self, bonus action unarmed strike - Average 1d8+wis + 1d8 +wis - 7.5 + 7.5 = 15 damage

Over 2 rounds you get an average of about 20 damage without Shillelagh on self and 23 with it on self.


Now let's take 2 rounds with an average monk who has +3 dex, +2 wis
Round 1 - Attack with staff/spear, then bonus action unarmed 1d8 + dex + 1d4+dex = 7.5+5.5 = 13 damage
Round 2 - Attack with staff/spear, then bonus action unarmed 1d8 + dex + 1d4+dex = 7.5+5.5 = 13 damage

Over 2 rounds you get an average of 26 damage without having to use it at all.



Based on this, after the 4th round the build with Shillelagh will overcome the normal monk attack, but you will deal less damage at the beginning of combat. In future levels your stunning strike will be a little bit better, but that is at level 5.



Now, this difference will increase slightly if you flurry of blows often at later levels, but it's still number ton consider. Also, once you get to level 5 the different in damage should take longer to overcome.

[Unoriginal]

Yeah, my dm is all for it. The only reason we’re debating is this would be druid/monk multiclass. Which would basicly give me an 11th level monk unarmed hit die at druid1/monk1.

Shillelagh doesn't let you do more than 1 attack with it. And it's the Cast a Spell action, so no Martial Art bonus action for you, nor Flurry of Blow.

So no, you're actually doing worse damage than a lvl 1 monk with a quarterstaff.



Round cast Shillelagh on Club or self. Attack 1d8 + wis - Average 7.5 damage
Round 2 attack once with Shillelagh Club, bonus action unarmed strike - Average 1d8+wis + 1d4 +dex - 7.5 + 4.5 = 12 damage
Round 2 attack once with Shillelagh Self, bonus action unarmed strike - Average 1d8+wis + 1d8 +wis - 7.5 + 7.5 = 15 damage.

Casting Shillelagh doesn't let you use the bonus action unarmed strike.

[Man_Over_Game]

Shillelagh doesn't let you do more than 1 attack with it. And it's the Cast a Spell action, so no Martial Art bonus action for you, nor Flurry of Blow.

So no, you're actually doing worse damage than a lvl 1 monk with a quarterstaff.

You might want to double check on that.

Shillelagh's not a melee attack spell, like Primal Savagery or Booming Blade. It turns a club/quarterstaff to a 1d8 for a minute while allowing you to use your Wisdom for its attack rolls rather than your normal attack modifier, costing you a single bonus action to upgrade the weapon at the start of that minute. It works just fine with normal attacks, and it's still a quarterstaff, so it still counts as a monk weapon.

It's basically a melee version of Magic Stone.

[nickl_2000]

Casting Shillelagh doesn't let you use the bonus action unarmed strike.

Not on the first round, but the subsequent rounds it does let you do it. The spell requires no concentration and last 1 minute

[Unoriginal]

You might want to double check on that.

Shillelagh's not a melee attack spell, like Primal Savagery or Booming Blade. It turns a club/quarterstaff to a 1d8 for a minute while allowing you to use your Wisdom for its attack rolls rather than your normal attack modifier, costing you a single bonus action to upgrade the weapon at the start of that minute. It works just fine with normal attacks, and it's still a quarterstaff, so it still counts as a monk weapon.

It's basically a melee version of Magic Stone.

You're right, I was incorrect. But in that case, it's a complete waste to use as a Monk, unless you have bad DEX and good WIS.

Monks can already do 1d8 damage with a quarterstaff + their bonus attack.

[Man_Over_Game]

You're right, I was incorrect. But in that case, it's a complete waste to use as a Monk, unless you have bad DEX and good WIS.

Monks can already do 1d8 damage with a quarterstaff + their bonus attack.

That's exactly correct, but when both Wisdom and Dexterity increase your AC, to-hit, damage, but Wisdom controls your Saving Throws and Dexterity controls your Initiative, which one is worth the investment? This is the equivalent of Paladins going Hexblade because they're lazy and don't want to deal with needing 3 stats.

I'd allow it, but it'd require the damage dice goes UP to the unarmed strike damage, at least until Shillelagh and Unarmed Strike match in terms of damage, which then it follows Shillelagh's 1d8 and does not scale any further (effectively making this a weaker build later on).

You're turning a 3 stat character into only needing 2 stats. You could just as easily put all of the stats you'd normally have to divide between Dexterity and Wisdom into just a single one of those stats for the same benefit. There's gotta be something you're losing for that. Additionally, this is only able to be done because of your race, which is still wrong on so many levels, but I might look over it because of the Rule of Cool. Generally, builds should be accented by your race, not defined by them.

Although, if you do go this route, I really recommend the 4 Elements, as pretty much everything in that archetype uses your Saving Throws. Get your Wisdom to 20, grab Magic Stone, and start doing some really cool tricks.

[Joe the Rat]

It does get you an early magic melee attack... which becomes moot around 6.

Wis over Dex isn't the typical monk, but it has an appeal for the "Smiling Old Man With A Broom" Archetype.