Nale saved the Western Continent

[Lord]

So I just realized something when I was reading over the old OOTS comics. When Nale killed Malack he inadvertantly did a whole lot of good. Like continent spanning good.
Think about it. Tarquins plan is to use false flag operations between puppet states to little by little take over the continent with no one being the wiser. Then he eventually rules over the thing with his buddies. Great plan. Could have worked to.

So what happens when Tarquin and everyone dies? 
It all goes to Malack. Who basically revealed his intention to turn the thing into an undead Third Reich. Malack was an immortal vampire. Which meant he would live forever until he was killed. Considering how scarily competent Malack is he could have been ruling for hundreds and hundreds of years, during which time thousands, maybe even millions, of innocent people would be murdered. Not to mention the other aspects of the tyranny already in place.

Heck, given the resources of an entire continent Malack might have gone on to become a Dark Lord who starts spreading his Empire to other continents.

But that won’t happen now.

Because Tarquin has no clear successor. Even if he recovers from the recent setback and successfully conquers the entire western continent, Malack is dead and can’t come back. Nale is dead by Tarquin’s hands. And Elan has no interest in ruling anywhere, let alone succeeding his father as tyrant.
In other words Tarquin’s best case scenario is to become ruler for the last years of his life. Then pass it on to one of the children of the other members of his adventuring gang. And given that Malack was an important asset that helped check Tarquin’s overconfidence his chances of succeeding are dropping heavily. And even if they do conquer the whole continent the other adventurers might just opt to split it up and keep their own Empires.

No wonder Tarquin dropped out of the narrative. His evil plan has basically been completely foiled. Theoretically speaking he might still make himself a legend. But the chances are must lower now and his legacy will be far less than it would have been.

So good work Nale. It’s a pity you did it for all the wrong reasons. It might have bought you some points in the heavenly checkpoint.

[Sylian]

So good work Nale. It’s a pity you did it for all the wrong reasons. It might have bought you some points in the heavenly checkpoint.The D&D alignment system is not very consequentialist, Nale inadvertently murdering Malack probably wouldn't count as a good action anyway. Oh, and he's still an unrepented serial killer, so there's that. He almost certainly ended up in an Evil afterlife (probably Neutral Evil or Chaotic Evil).

With that being said, I agree that destroying Malack was a good thing (if not Good). Still, chances are Elan's plan will end up working and Malack wouldn't have been able to continue his reign anyway, but at least they won't have to deal with Malack now.

[ti'esar]

Somebody else also once pointed out that this made Z even more of V's opposite: he saved an uncountable number of lives with a single spell.

[Goblin_Priest]

Yea, but Tarquin is actually bringing a lot of peace and order on the continent, minimizing what were otherwise even more brutal and bloody wars!

[Rogar Demonblud]

At the cost of bloody and brutal oppression, run by bloody and brutal secret police forces. Oh, and the wars are still happening, because they keep having someone topple their figureheads on a regular basis.

[factotum]

Tarquins plan is to use false flag operations between puppet states to little by little take over the continent with no one being the wiser. Then he eventually rules over the thing with his buddies. Great plan. Could have worked to.


Um, there's no "could have" here--the plan has already worked; Tarquin and his buddies are in control of the major power blocs of the Western Continent (apart from the Elves, obviously). Also, Malack's plan would not destroy the people of the Western Continent--he would effectively be a farmer of blood in this situation, and farmers don't slaughter their cattle so rapidly that they don't get replaced through natural birth.

[Goblin_Priest]

At the cost of bloody and brutal oppression, run by bloody and brutal secret police forces. Oh, and the wars are still happening, because they keep having someone topple their figureheads on a regular basis.

Yes, but the wars were much quicker and less bloody. ;)

[martianmister]

Malack's plan probably wouldn't work, as his plan of uniting three empires into a great vampire state would create a big opposition to his rule.

[JeenLeen]

Malack's plan probably wouldn't work, as his plan of uniting three empires into a great vampire state would create a big opposition to his rule.

This is even more true given the narrative logic that governs the OotS setting. As Elan or Tarquin would point out (and, honestly, Tarquin probably has, to Malack's annoyance), setting up an evil empire like that almost guarantees that a hero will overthrow it.

But Malack might rule for hundreds or thousands of years first. That's still a good offering to Nergal.

[Peelee]

Yes, but the wars were much quicker and less bloody. ;)

Even assuming the wars are less bloody (which there is no indication of), Tarquin, at the very least, makes up for it with his regime being incredibly bloody. So very likely zero net gain on the lives lost front there.

[Lord Torath]

Yes, but the wars were much quicker and less bloody. ;)Since the Empire of Blood is involved, the current cycle of wars is actually more bloody! :smalltongue:

[Synesthesy]

But we all know that when Tarquin went back home after being dropped in the desert, he went to the first taver he met and found Melloth that also is an immortal green star adept, with the promise to keep T's legacy forever.

a green star adept because people in the forum will be crazy with theory that imply that the Green Star is tied to the Easter pantheon's quiddity :P

[blademan9999]

And of course even if Traquin's plan DOES succeed there still won't be the whole sacrificing a thousand people a day to Nergal.

[AceOfFools]

Not that this isn't a nifty thing to think about (because the irony is pretty sweet), but you are ignoring the content full of oppressed people from which one can draw a hero to opose Malack.

OotS's world is huge, full of hundreds of stories not related to those we see. Believing that only those exploits we see matter cheapens the rich setting (pun intended]. It also conflicts with what Rich keeps showing us in terms of new stories, from Good Deeds Gone Unpunished and Julio's story in Snips Snails and Dragon Tales to the constant allusions to side characters' past exploits.

Plus, Nale's work with his father may have doomed the western continent by putting Malak in a position to kill Durkon, making the destruction of the gate neccesary. We still haven't seen all the fallout of that, but we know it's not great.

[Prinygod]

And of course even if Traquin's plan DOES succeed there still won't be the whole sacrificing a thousand people a day to Nergal.

Tarquin's plan was to be overthrown by a hero. In all likelihood when he made that promise, he didn't expect to get a statue at all. His legacy, according to him, would live on in the story of the person who got him in the end. Which is why elan is trying to avoid a climatic hero vs villain clash.

[denthor]

He does have someone to pass it off to the 3rd illegitimate child. Anel.

Just because it wasn't mentioned he had many wives one of them may have had a child.

[Prinygod]

He does have someone to pass it off to the 3rd illegitimate child. Anel.

Just because it wasn't mentioned he had many wives one of them may have had a child.

Yeah but Anel cannot produce children so it stops there

[Riftwolf]

But we all know that when Tarquin went back home after being dropped in the desert, he went to the first taver he met and found Melloth that also is an immortal green star adept, with the promise to keep T's legacy forever.

a green star adept because people in the forum will be crazy with theory that imply that the Green Star is tied to the Easter pantheon's quiddity :P

You think a relentless power gamer like Tarquin would trust a Green Star Adept?
(by powergamer I mean over-optimised for personal combat without skill points in, yknow, competence in other respects. I think Tarquin is closer to 'somehow makes it work' than the magnificent chessmaster memetic badass the old forum painted him as, even if toe-to-toe he's an unbeaten record)

[Bacon Elemental]

Plus, Nale's work with his father may have doomed the western continent by putting Malak in a position to kill Durkon, making the destruction of the gate neccesary. We still haven't seen all the fallout of that, but we know it's not great.

I was under the impression that Durkons "summon an army of angels" plan was to keep the Linear Guild away, and that they didnt really know what to do about Xykon if he showed up. And as we've seen,

That tactic didnt exactly work great when epic-level Dorukan tried it against Xykon

Which would get Nale back off the hook for the Gate's destruction, seeing as Xykon would have arrived and necessitated the gate smash Durkon or No

[AceOfFools]

I was under the impression that Durkons "summon an army of angels" plan was to keep the Linear Guild away, and that they didnt really know what to do about Xykon if he showed up. And as we've seen,

That tactic didnt exactly work great when epic-level Dorukan tried it against Xykon

Which would get Nale back off the hook for the Gate's destruction, seeing as Xykon would have arrived and necessitated the gate smash Durkon or No

Durkon prepared spells before knowing the Linear Guild would attack. The angels plan was for Xykon.

Would it have worked? Who knows? The Linear Guild debacle made for a better story.

[Riftwolf]

Durkon prepared spells before knowing the Linear Guild would attack. The angels plan was for Xykon.

Would it have worked? Who knows? The Linear Guild debacle made for a better story.

Am I right in thinking Durkon prepared spells before knowing the Draketooths had been wiped out? In which case, planar ally would've been to bolster defences rather than defending alone.
As for Dorukan, his gate spell might have worked if not for one fatal flaw; he was established as dead at the start of book #1. No spell imagined can alter the course of a prequel.

[Bacon Elemental]

Durkon prepared spells before knowing the Linear Guild would attack. The angels plan was for Xykon.

Would it have worked? Who knows? The Linear Guild debacle made for a better story.

Forgive me if im wrong but surely 865 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html) confirms that the deva thing was to fortify the Gate against the LG, not Xykon? That's why he only had one available and needed to wait until dawn for fresh prepares to get the rest. And why they specifically mention that a half-dozen Astral Devas wouldn't be of any real value in a fight against Xykon.

[AceOfFools]

Forgive me if im wrong but surely 865 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0865.html) confirms that the deva thing was to fortify the Gate against the LG, not Xykon? That's why he only had one available and needed to wait until dawn for fresh prepares to get the rest. And why they specifically mention that a half-dozen Astral Devas wouldn't be of any real value in a fight against Xykon.
Sure, but they weren't planning to destroy the gate until after Durkon died.

They were planning on defending the gate as best they could form Xykon until then.

Would they have destroyed the gate if he had shown up when he did, before they had time to prep defenses?

Quite possibly.

[DavidBV]

For all we know, a drunk driver could have inadvertently run over a terrorist that was planning to detonate a bomb and kill hundreds. DUI, or seeking petty revenge, doesn't make you a hero nor a savior of anything. Things could have gone any other way and Malack could (and probably would) have been stopped anyways.