How Miko Saved the World (spoilers)

[Pieguy]

So with the revelations about the Dark One and what needs to be done to make use of purple quiddity, we must now consider the amusing fact that Miko Miyazaki probably actually saved the world.

How?

By shattering Soon's Gate before Soon could kill Xykon and Redcloak.

If Redcloak had died in Azure City, then the new High Priest of the Dark One would probably have been a lot harder for Durkon to eventually track down and (hopefully) convince to help the gods with the Rifts. Said priest might not even have been high enough level to cast the necessary 9th-level spell to do it. But thanks to Miko blowing the Gate, Soon was interrupted, Redcloak lives, and the world has a much better shot.

So let's now give thanks to the true hero of Order of the Stick: Miko Miyazaki. Frankly, I'm as surprised as you are.

[RatElemental]

I don't think I buy this.

It would probably be far easier to track down the new high priest than to convince Redcloak of all people to abandon the plan. He's a walking sunk cost fallacy. Especially since divination magic exists.

Getting the new high priest to agree to it would be a problem in its own right, and might be as hard as getting Redcloak to agree to it anyway.

[hroþila]

But if Redcloak and Xykon had died there, they wouldn't be in such a hurry to fix the Snarl thing. They and the whole world could have afforded to wait, and the Dark One might have been more open to negotiations after his Plan got knocked down back to square one after having come much closer than ever.

[Pieguy]

But this way is funnier!

[NerdyKris]

Thor wouldn't have been able to relay that information to Durkon without him dying as a vampire due to trying to fix the godsmoot because he was turned by Malak while trying to stop Xykon at the next gate.

[Lacuna Caster]

So let's now give thanks to the true hero of Order of the Stick: Miko Miyazaki. Frankly, I'm as surprised as you are.
It's already been heavily implied (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1098.html) that more-or-less everything which happened in the strip thus far was part of Odin's complex gambit to get Durkon vampirised and head north, presumably so he could die and chat with Thor and then get raised and level his very best care-bear-stare at Redcloak.

A chain of events which... strictly speaking, would have to include all the stuff that happened in Azure City. So, yeah. Not really the Gods she was expecting, but... yes, Miko was actually playing her intended role in a fantastically convoluted divine plan.

[factotum]

There would be absolutely no problem tracking the new high priest down, because you know where he's going--he's after a Gate. The battle for the city itself was also lost at the point Soon could have killed Redcloak, so the Crimson Mantle itself would be safe, and I'm sure some sort of zerg tactic by the hobgoblins would be sufficient to distract Soon long enough to retrieve it. Heck, they might even be able to get Redcloak's body out and raise him from the dead, we know the hobgoblins had other clerics.

So, chances are very good that, without Miko, Redcloak would be sitting in the remains of Azure City figuring out how to get rid of Soon so he has unrestricted access to the Gate--oh, and trying to find a replacement high-level arcane caster, since Xykon bought it in the throne room.

[Rrmcklin]

So is "How X Saved/Will Save the World" just going to be a running thing now?

[Lacuna Caster]

So, chances are very good that, without Miko, Redcloak would be sitting in the remains of Azure City figuring out how to get rid of Soon so he has unrestricted access to the Gate--oh, and trying to find a replacement high-level arcane caster, since Xykon bought it in the throne room.
No no no no, factotum. You don't understand. It's a divine plan. Sure, we could reasonably speculate about alternative courses of action based on plausible assumptions about standing forces and character motivations, but we are but mortals. Who are we to question the eternal wisdom of Odin the all-seeing?

[Rynael]

So is "How X Saved/Will Save the World" just going to be a running thing now?

That's the funny thing about "save the world" stories. The world's usually so close to the brink all the time that, like, everyone's gonna end up with a case, however dubious, for how, without them, the world would've ended. I hope I'll remember this for when the story ends, so I can see if I can make up any convoluted Oracle-style explanations for how, technically, Pompey and Leeky or something contributed to the world's salvation.

[Lord Raziere]

Xykon saved the world.

Because without him, no one would have the motivation to save it in the first place.

Hear the explosion? Thats your mind. Isn't this a mindblowing revelation? After all, Miko would never have done this if Xykon had not helpfully motivated her to do this by trying to take it over.

:smalltongue:

[Peelee]

There would be absolutely no problem tracking the new high priest down, because you know where he's going--he's after a Gate. The battle for the city itself was also lost at the point Soon could have killed Redcloak, so the Crimson Mantle itself would be safe, and I'm sure some sort of zerg tactic by the hobgoblins would be sufficient to distract Soon long enough to retrieve it. Heck, they might even be able to get Redcloak's body out and raise him from the dead, we know the hobgoblins had other clerics.

Soon knew about Xykon's phylactery. I would wager he'd know about the Crimson Mantle as well. It's importance, that is.

[Pieguy]

Of course, we all know that the gods really saved the world. If they hadn't made the Snarl in the first place, then there would have been no need for Gates, and thus Miko couldn't have smashed the sapphire, thus sparing Redcloak's life so he could potentially help seal the rifts and keep the Snarl down!

[Lacuna Caster]

Xykon saved the world.
Also true. Without Xykon's cooperation, Redcloak would never have become powerful enough to cast 9th-level spells.

The flumphs also saved the world. Without them, Miko would never have found the order and brought them to Shojo to learn about the Gates. (Because no-one in this organisation knows about Sending spells, apparently.) It goes on and on!

[Lord Raziere]

Of course, we all know that the gods really saved the world. If they hadn't made the Snarl in the first place, then there would have been no need for Gates, and thus Miko couldn't have smashed the sapphire, thus sparing Redcloak's life so he could potentially help seal the rifts and keep the Snarl down!

By the way, Freeza totally saved all of Dragon Ball by nearly wiping out the saiyans, then Goku would never have been sent to Earth, Vegeta would never come to find Goku, and Goku would never have gone to Namek to Kill Freeza and thus go Super Saiyan, thank you freeza for your selfless sacrifice.

Sidious totally saved the galaxy from the dark side by making sure his apprentice would give birth to the two people who would grow up to defeat him while he makes himself a big target obvious target for the Rebel alliance to defeat while treating Vader's son badly in front of him, thank you Sidious.

Thank you Dio for saving the world by antagonizing the Joestar family so that they would discover Hamon and Stands and get thrown into weird crazy adventures so that they become strong enough to defeat an ultimate life form vampire and various other people including Dio.

[Peelee]

Thank you Dio for saving the world

I'm a fan of any theory that has Ronnie James Dio saving the world.

[martianmister]

By the way, Freeza totally saved all of Dragon Ball by nearly wiping out the saiyans, then Goku would never have been sent to Earth, Vegeta would never come to find Goku, and Goku would never have gone to Namek to Kill Freeza and thus go Super Saiyan, thank you freeza for your selfless sacrifice.

Well...if not for Freezer, Goku would be evil like other saiya-jin.


Sidious totally saved the galaxy from the dark side by making sure his apprentice would give birth to the two people who would grow up to defeat him while he makes himself a big target obvious target for the Rebel alliance to defeat while treating Vader's son badly in front of him, thank you Sidious.

Not really. Mace Windu would've killed him.

[Pieguy]

When you think about it, if the world didn't exist, then there wouldn't have been anywhere for Miko to stand when she smashed the sapphire and saved Redcloak. Good job, world, for saving the world.

[The Pilgrim]

We all saved the world. Without our continuing support of the webcomic, this story would have drawn to a close long ago, it's world and characters long over and forgotten like all the other billion worlds shown by Thor.

[factotum]

Soon knew about Xykon's phylactery. I would wager he'd know about the Crimson Mantle as well. It's importance, that is.

And what difference does that make? If there are a hundred hobgoblins attacking him at once, he can still only kill maybe 2 or 3 per round, so the others can go after Redcloak. For that matter, if they have a high enough level arcane caster to cast Telekinesis, or they purchase a scroll of it, they can grab Redcloak from the doorway while the rest of the gobboes run interference.

[Mordaedil]

Soon did acknowledge that she did what had to be done, as wasteful as it was.

[Zholvar]

hmm, if redcloak died in azure city maybe TDO would see that his "plan" doesn't work and would reopen communications with the other gods? Or the former supreme leader jumps back in command and leads Goblinkind to a peacefull future? If no more gates were destroyed, would there even be a godsmoot about destroying the world, in that year? Would the order go on further adventures if the main villains are destroyed by macguffin NPCs?
Miko did save an intresting plot full of "destruction and unnecessary conflict" and was therefore a pawn of the IFCC! ;-)
There a too many options here, and most of them are kinda lame...

[loasmkers]

And what difference does that make? If there are a hundred hobgoblins attacking him at once, he can still only kill maybe 2 or 3 per round, so the others can go after Redcloak. For that matter, if they have a high enough level arcane caster to cast Telekinesis, or they purchase a scroll of it, they can grab Redcloak from the doorway while the rest of the gobboes run interference.

He has the ability to do so.

[snowblizz]

Xykon saved the world.

Because without him, no one would have the motivation to save it in the first place.

Hear the explosion? Thats your mind. Isn't this a mindblowing revelation? After all, Miko would never have done this if Xykon had not helpfully motivated her to do this by trying to take it over.

:smalltongue:

This just in: Xykon killed Miko's parents!

[Peelee]

And what difference does that make? If there are a hundred hobgoblins attacking him at once, he can still only kill maybe 2 or 3 per round, so the others can go after Redcloak. For that matter, if they have a high enough level arcane caster to cast Telekinesis, or they purchase a scroll of it, they can grab Redcloak from the doorway while the rest of the gobboes run interference.

Grabbing Redcloak doesn't do much if Soon destroyed the red cloak. If he knew its importance, he wouldn't just leave it lying around.

[Borris]

This just in: Xykon killed Miko's parents!

Thank you Xykon for setting up a chain of events that will perhaps eventually lead to the salvation of the world. There is no other chain of events that could possibly have led to anything remotely equivalent.

Also, Redcloak's niece.

[factotum]

Grabbing Redcloak doesn't do much if Soon destroyed the red cloak. If he knew its importance, he wouldn't just leave it lying around.

Can he do that? He was pretty confident he wouldn't be able to destroy the phylactery, and I find it hard to believe that a major artifact created by a God would be easier to destroy than that.

[Lacuna Caster]

This just in: Xykon killed Miko's parents!

Thank you Xykon for setting up a chain of events that will perhaps eventually lead to the salvation of the world. There is no other chain of events that could possibly have led to anything remotely equivalent.
But how is this any more or less ridiculous than everything else that Odin is ostensibly supposed to have planned? Odin could just have used his prophecy to tell Durkon to talk to/capture Redcloak right after Xykon's defeat in the dungeon of dorukan. Are there ways this alternative plan could go wrong? Sure. As opposed to what? The billion different ways that the current storyline could have gone differently?

Nothing about this plan makes any sense in the first place. Debating what might reasonably have gone differently or worked better is pointless. The only way to accept it as a valid explanation is to rely on pure blind faith in the author Odin the All-Seeing.

[D.One]

Of course, we all know that the gods really saved the world. If they hadn't made the Snarl in the first place, then there would have been no need for Gates, and thus Miko couldn't have smashed the sapphire, thus sparing Redcloak's life so he could potentially help seal the rifts and keep the Snarl down!

Not to mention that "no snarl" would mean this world wouldn't probably exist and we could be reading the story of boring World 1.0...

[Peelee]

Can he do that? He was pretty confident he wouldn't be able to destroy the phylactery, and I find it hard to believe that a major artifact created by a God would be easier to destroy than that.

Fair enough. I misremembered and thought Soon himself had "destroy phylactery" on his to-do list, and re-read after you pointed out he didn't. My bad, my argument doesn't hold up.

[hamishspence]

I find it hard to believe that a major artifact created by a God would be easier to destroy than that.

The cloak has become tattered since its creation - which may mean that it's more damageable than major artifacts (it's a minor artifact, maybe)?

[Peelee]

The cloak has become tattered since its creation - which may mean that it's more damageable than major artifacts (it's a minor artifact, maybe)?

I would think so, but at the same time it's unlikely Soon would be able to damage it, which is what I was arguing.

[hamishspence]

at the same time it's unlikely Soon would be able to damage it, which is what I was arguing.

Seems reasonable.

I would guess that what's damaging Xykon is Soon's "good energy" - and that this doesn't damage material objects, only creatures.

Plus Soon can add Smite Evil attacks on top of that.

[Emanick]

But how is this any more or less ridiculous than everything else that Odin is ostensibly supposed to have planned? Odin could just have used his prophecy to tell Durkon to talk to/capture Redcloak right after Xykon's defeat in the dungeon of dorukan. Are there ways this alternative plan could go wrong? Sure. As opposed to what? The billion different ways that the current storyline could have gone differently?

Nothing about this plan makes any sense in the first place. Debating what might reasonably have gone differently or worked better is pointless. The only way to accept it as a valid explanation is to rely on pure blind faith in the author Odin the All-Seeing.

I have no issue in principle with blindly trusting that the Odin the All-Seeing somehow figured out the best possible approach through foresight - he's a god, after all - but I want to point out that talking to/capturing Redcloak after the Dungeon of Dorukan may not have worked, because Redcloak couldn't cast a 9th-level spell at that point; he seems to have been around 14th level at the time.


The cloak has become tattered since its creation - which may mean that it's more damageable than major artifacts (it's a minor artifact, maybe)?

Minor artifacts are, by definition, not unique. There don't seem to be any other Crimson Mantles floating around, so it's probably a major artifact.

[hamishspence]

Minor artifacts are, by definition, not unique.
Actually, there's quite a few unique minor artifacts in the splatbooks as I recall (even if they aren't always unique the way major artifacts are). So why not the Crimson Mantle?

[Emanick]

Actually, there's quite a few unique minor artifacts in the splatbooks as I recall (even if they aren't always unique the way major artifacts are). So why not the Crimson Mantle?

You're right, I just double-checked the DMG and it only specifies that they are "not necessarily unique items." My apologies, I should have looked before trusting my memory and commenting.

[Lacuna Caster]

I have no issue in principle with blindly trusting that the Odin the All-Seeing somehow figured out the best possible approach through foresight - he's a god, after all - but I want to point out that talking to/capturing Redcloak after the Dungeon of Dorukan may not have worked, because Redcloak couldn't cast a 9th-level spell at that point; he seems to have been around 14th level at the time.
Right, but if you could capture the Dark One's high priest (and/or the crimson mantle itself) you've at least got some leverage for getting the Dark One to talk. And if you really get Redcloak on-board with the program, he could go adventure with the Order until he could cast 9th-level spells.

Sure, there are a lot of unknowns involved, but again, there were a billion ways the canonical storyline might have diverged.

[137beth]

So is "How X Saved/Will Save the World" just going to be a running thing now?

Is it a "running thing":smallconfused:? I only see one thread with this sort of title on the first page of this board. What am I missing?

[B. Dandelion]

Is it a "running thing":smallconfused:? I only see one thread with this sort of title on the first page of this board. What am I missing?

In addition to this thread, the first page has "Nale saved the Western Continent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571756-Nale-saved-the-Western-Continent)", "How Elan will Save the world (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571681-How-Elan-will-Save-the-world)", and "Might Oona save the world? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?571714-Might-Oona-save-the-world)".

[kiapet]

Yes, this occurred to me! I actually like it, it makes it feel less like "Azure City Fell Due to Sheer Stupidity" and more "Fate Had Other Plans"

To everyone saying that they could just deal with another High Priest of the Dark One: do you think they have time to wait for another goblin cleric who can cast ninth-level spells? Because even with the Crimson Mantle, it took Redcloak decades to get where he is now.

[RatElemental]

Yes, this occurred to me! I actually like it, it makes it feel less like "Azure City Fell Due to Sheer Stupidity" and more "Fate Had Other Plans"

To everyone saying that they could just deal with another High Priest of the Dark One: do you think they have time to wait for another goblin cleric who can cast ninth-level spells? Because even with the Crimson Mantle, it took Redcloak decades to get where he is now.

Without someone actively smashing them, who knows how long the gates can hold? At that point only two had been destroyed, which could be patched up with the current 3 color version of the gate, especially since with Xykon out of the picture it would be possible for Durkon to raise both Lirian and Dorukan*, the people who created the original ones.

*Would need to find some remains first, but at least they would have the souls on hand.

[factotum]

Without someone actively smashing them, who knows how long the gates can hold? At that point only two had been destroyed, which could be patched up with the current 3 color version of the gate

One assumes there's a limit to how big these gates can be, though--they appear to need a physical structure to work. We don't know how big the rifts in Lirian's and Dorukan's domains grew after the relevant gates were destroyed--the one over Azure City, originally small enough to fit inside a gemstone, was absolutely massive a few months later, and that was only 1 extra gate that had been destroyed at that point.