Pick up the Pace vs. Patience

[Angelalex242]

In Dragon Heist, it's possible for PCs to get a game over before even seeing the final boss if they don't proceed with much of a sense of urgency. Patient, careful PCs may never see the bad guys achieve their objectives because they were completed 3 days ago by the time the PCs get there.

How does one let PCs know there's a ticking clock so they don't get game overs by the time they get there?

[MaxWilson]

In Dragon Heist, it's possible for PCs to get a game over before even seeing the final boss if they don't proceed with much of a sense of urgency. Patient, careful PCs may never see the bad guys achieve their objectives because they were completed 3 days ago by the time the PCs get there.

How does one let PCs know there's a ticking clock so they don't get game overs by the time they get there?

Good question. I didn't buy Dragon Heist, but an approach I've tried previously is to explicitly tie offscreen metagame happenings to table time. "The princess has been captured and your PCs have no way of knowing exactly when the dragon is going to eat her, but I'm telling you guys right now: if you haven't rescued her before we run out of time at ten o'clock tonight, she's gonna get eaten. Play accordingly."

It's not a perfect solution but I like it better than anything else I've tried (such as rolling a die in front of the players every few once in a while, and on a natural 1 she gets eaten--this method was a little too random). It sounds like Dragon Heist is a multi-week adventure, so I'd probably run it similarly and just tell them out of character that they have seven weeks to solve the heist, or whatever.

It's definitely a gamist approach though.

[Rhaegar14]

This is something that should be discussed during session zero. A lot of players assume (for good reason, because a lot of DMs do this) that things will move at the "speed of plot" and if that's not the case and they're gonna have a finite amount of game-time to get stuff done once in a while they need to be explicitly told that.

[Asmotherion]

At random times, cut their RP for a Wisdom check, to tell them that they notice the Sun is about at Noon, or that they are in a bit of a hurry, and should they be taking their sweet time?. This should be a hint enough. If they don't get the hint, it's on their hands. D&D should always have a chance of failure, but a realistic chance of success as well.

[Unoriginal]

In Dragon Heist, it's possible for PCs to get a game over before even seeing the final boss

In every single published module and homebrew adventure, it's possible for PCs to get a game over before even seeing the final boss.

In Dragon Heist, the PCs should have enough knowledge to know that they're on a ticking clock as soon as the Bad Guys get what they need to complete their objectives. There is no issue telling them "guys, I know you want to plan this out, but your PCs know they don't have much time".

Unless the PCs stumbled around without acquiring any knowledge. But in that case they're ****ed any way.


Also for those who haven't read Dragon Heist: if the bad guys are in position to win, the PCs have a chance to stop them, but that mean the PCs got beaten to the punch by the bad guys already and now are trying to solve the issue when their antagonists are a few meters from the finish line.

[DeadMech]

I use the floating meteor in the sky method. The people I like playing with understand if I tell them a mission is time sensitive that they have to make some attempt at completing it in a timely manner. Blew through too many resources and need a long rest? "Come on guys you know this is urgent right?"

It might just be my imagination but modern gamers are far more into the narrative of a game than they used to be. Parties given a goal tend to beeline to that goal, skipping entire sections of a prepared dungeon if they aren't directly between them and the goal.

If I don't tell them how much time they have then it can be whatever amount of time I want it to be. Party almost got TPK'd by bad dice rolls that was beyond their control. Well they know they lost time and oh look you've arrived just in the nick of time. The ritual is about to start. If you want to save the sacrifice you better spring into action right now.

They beelined to their goal and didn't experience any more slowdowns than could of been expected? You're in luck guys. They're still setting up for the ritual, handing out dark mysterious cloaks and whatnot. You have some time to make a plan, maybe sneak in while people are distracted.

They took a nap before setting out and spent most of the trip inside tiny huts or rope tricks. Oh well guys looks like you're too late. But you might still be able to catch the cult leader before this happens to someone else.

Events going on in the background that will screw the players are only interesting if the players are at least aware of those events and the meaningful choices they can make to influence them.

NPC: Demons are causing trouble in elf land.
Party: That's bad. Do you think it's something we could help with?
NPC: Not currently.
Party: Makes sense. Wizard only knows fire spells and we don't have any magic weapons. Know where we can find something to help?
NPC: No not really.

Later

Party: We still haven't found any magic weapons or wizard spell books or scrolls after that last couple missions.
DM: You wont. The plane is being corrupted and sucked into the abyss.
Players: Oh? Should we, like... do something about that.
DM: Well by now a demon prince is guarding the portal spewing legions of demons into the world. So not really. Maybe you should have dealt with it when it was just some dretches, quasits, and a Bulazau.

That's not a particularly fun or interesting end to a campaign.

[Armored Walrus]

Doesn't the adventure itself provide guidance for how to make sure the players are aware of the time constraint? Seems like a pretty big oversight in a $35 product if not.

[Unoriginal]

Doesn't the adventure itself provide guidance for how to make sure the players are aware of the time constraint? Seems like a pretty big oversight in a $35 product if not.

It does provide that. "We've just struggled and rushed all over town to get our hand on the MacGuffin, now that the BBEG has it we should wait and see" isn't something the players are encouraged to do, for started by simple context clues.

[Kharneth]

At random times, cut their RP for a Wisdom check, to tell them that they notice the Sun is about at Noon, or that they are in a bit of a hurry, and should they be taking their sweet time?. This should be a hint enough. If they don't get the hint, it's on their hands. D&D should always have a chance of failure, but a realistic chance of success as well.

I really like this advice. As the DM, you control the environment and in certain situations this may even mean the minds of the PCs. I've had DMs tell me that my character has had a shift in his mental state or awareness as a hint to something, such as a creepy feeling when you enter a room. Wisdom check to have one or more members experience, feel, or sense something, or Intelligence check to randomly be reminded of something (maybe they previously perceived their ticking-time but have sense lost momentum and have forgotten the urgency).

[Angelalex242]

Here's the thing...these PCs are so slow they've never laid eyes on the MacGuffin. The enemy got it, and its existence is barely on the PCs minds. They've never seen it, and don't seem particularly interested in it.

Things happen at specified times in this book, and if the PCs don't make it in time, the book is perfectly happy to let them not make it in time. Now it's the day of the ritual, and they're done on resources, so they might just keep going relaxed and patient...but it doesn't matter, because the ritual for the (Summer Campaign) is completed on Founder's day...and it doesn't matter if the PCs get there or not. It's completed on Founder's day. The world doesn't care about the PCs. Rather, it moves on its own, and if the PCs do other things, then the bad guys simply win because they're unopposed.

[Unoriginal]

Here's the thing...these PCs are so slow they've never laid eyes on the MacGuffin. The enemy got it, and its existence is barely on the PCs minds. They've never seen it, and don't seem particularly interested in it.

Things happen at specified times in this book, and if the PCs don't make it in time, the book is perfectly happy to let them not make it in time. Now it's the day of the ritual, and they're done on resources, so they might just keep going relaxed and patient...but it doesn't matter, because the ritual for the (Summer Campaign) is completed on Founder's day...and it doesn't matter if the PCs get there or not. It's completed on Founder's day. The world doesn't care about the PCs. Rather, it moves on its own, and if the PCs do other things, then the bad guys simply win because they're unopposed.

Yes, and it's perfectly fine.

If the PCs aren't interested in why the gangs are killing each others, why people are dying in front of their door, and in a mountain of treasure, then that's on them.

Summer bad guys win. Too bad for the PCs, but the world is only giving you so many chances to be involved in a story.

This is basically as if Frodo had said "you know what, I'm going to stay home a few more months" and then didn't care when the Nasgul showed up to take the One Ring from his living room.

[Angelalex242]

Yes, and it's perfectly fine.

If the PCs aren't interested in why the gangs are killing each others, why people are dying in front of their door, and in a mountain of treasure, then that's on them.

Summer bad guys win. Too bad for the PCs, but the world is only giving you so many chances to be involved in a story.

This is basically as if Frodo had said "you know what, I'm going to stay home a few more months" and then didn't care when the Nasgul showed up to take the One Ring from his living room.

Honestly, I think adventure league rules killed their desire in a mountain of treasure.

"Are we getting 100 tier 4 TPs for all this gold? No? We get gold we can't even keep? Meh, whatever."

[Unoriginal]

Honestly, I think adventure league rules killed their desire in a mountain of treasure.

"Are we getting 100 tier 4 TPs for all this gold? No? We get gold we can't even keep? Meh, whatever."

Are you DMing in the AL?

Also, why are the players going to the AL if they're not, you know, interested in the adventure?

[MaxWilson]

Here's the thing...these PCs are so slow they've never laid eyes on the MacGuffin. The enemy got it, and its existence is barely on the PCs minds. They've never seen it, and don't seem particularly interested in it.

Things happen at specified times in this book, and if the PCs don't make it in time, the book is perfectly happy to let them not make it in time. Now it's the day of the ritual, and they're done on resources, so they might just keep going relaxed and patient...but it doesn't matter, because the ritual for the (Summer Campaign) is completed on Founder's day...and it doesn't matter if the PCs get there or not. It's completed on Founder's day. The world doesn't care about the PCs. Rather, it moves on its own, and if the PCs do other things, then the bad guys simply win because they're unopposed.

That's fine then. The bad guys win, but the PCs don't lose and don't care--they'll go right on doing what they're doing. Life is like that sometimes.

Take what the PCs are engaging with and run with that instead. If that means abandoning the pre-written adventure path, gleefully do that and don't look back.

[Angelalex242]

Are you DMing in the AL?

Also, why are the players going to the AL if they're not, you know, interested in the adventure?

Yes.

Also, it's less they're not interested in the adventure, it's that it's their first time through the adventure and, because they're so far behind the enemies, they simply don't realize there's a time limit.

It's less the Nazgul showing up at Frodo's door, and more Bilbo got murdered and the Ring taken from him before Frodo knew the Ring was important.

[Unoriginal]

Yes.

Also, it's less they're not interested in the adventure, it's that it's their first time through the adventure and, because they're so far behind the enemies, they simply don't realize there's a time limit.

It's less the Nazgul showing up at Frodo's door, and more Bilbo got murdered and the Ring taken from him before Frodo knew the Ring was important.

Dragon Heist makes pretty clear the MacGuffing is important, though, and the events leave time for the PCs to intervene and make a difference. And there are plenty of ways to remind them of that.

Could you tell us more about what happened in your campaign? Maybe that way we can see where the issue started.

[Angelalex242]

Dragon Heist makes pretty clear the MacGuffing is important, though, and the events leave time for the PCs to intervene and make a difference. And there are plenty of ways to remind them of that.

Could you tell us more about what happened in your campaign? Maybe that way we can see where the issue started.

I'd say the primary issue is 'distracted by side quests.' They've been diligently completing Grey Hand sidequests, and in fact have completed all 4 for 4 of the ones offered thus far. The Bronze Dragon slowed them down a lot, though, because they went out of their way to make a friend of him, and because Waterdeep has a dragon ward, that created a very time consuming legal and political debate that got them seriously sidetracked. So they were more interested in this dragon and making him their new buddy than the MacGuffin.

[Ganymede]

In Dragon Heist, it's possible for PCs to get a game over before even seeing the final boss if they don't proceed with much of a sense of urgency. Patient, careful PCs may never see the bad guys achieve their objectives because they were completed 3 days ago by the time the PCs get there.

How does one let PCs know there's a ticking clock so they don't get game overs by the time they get there?

The adventure partially accounts for these scenarios and, with a little extra work, you can extend the adventure to give the players an extra chance to foil the villain's plot.

For instance, for the summer scenario, the Founder's Day celebration in which the Callasanters enact their diabolical plan is fully detailed. The other three are not as detailed, but an underwater chase in the Scarlet Marpenoth or collapsing the Xanathar's lair would be great extensions to the campaign.

[MaxWilson]

Yes.

Also, it's less they're not interested in the adventure, it's that it's their first time through the adventure and, because they're so far behind the enemies, they simply don't realize there's a time limit.

It's less the Nazgul showing up at Frodo's door, and more Bilbo got murdered and the Ring taken from him before Frodo knew the Ring was important.

Okay then. What would be likely to happen then? I see a couple of likely outcomes:

(1) Either the Witch-King of Angmar (chief Nazgul) gets greedy and takes the ring for himself, and civil war erupts in Mordor; or

(2) Sauron resurrects himself back to his old glory, and pulls a Hitler. Gondor falls, Mordor enlarges its borders, lots of people die, eventually Sauron's expansion reaches a limit and stabilizes for a while under internal or external pressures. (Internal pressures could include betrayal or bureaucratic inertia; external pressures could include goblin, elven, human, or dragon opposition, or even a expeditionary force of elves from the Valar in Aman.)

In either scenario, Frodo and the Shire are going to be affected (evil creatures coming into the lands of the shire), and they may feel responsible and motivated to get involved fixing it. Nice Job Breaking It, Hero. In both scenarios there's plenty of scope for adventure.

Do not be afraid to let the players' actions have consequences for the game world. That's what TTRPG play is all about.

[jiriku]

You give them the goal up-front. And if necessary, you let them fail.

I had a similar ticking-clock experience in which the players pissed around for a couple months crafting magic items instead of pursuing the quest they were given. They failed the quest and bad stuff happened. Like, wreck the campaign world and spend the rest of your days adventuring in its smoking ashes sort of bad. They were pretty severely traumatized by this. They weren't used to failing. But they had known all along that they had a villain to confront and they realized that their decision to ignore him had carried consequences. Plus, adventuring in the smoking ashes of the game world was a lot of fun. My players took the defeat in stride and they never made that rookie mistake again.

If you have a canned module that makes the players hunt for the main plot, to the point that if they get distracted by sidequests they can miss the entire meat of the adventure, then introduce the goal up front. Don't hide the ball. And once you've given them the ball and they know it's game on, crush them (in a way that's still fun) if they don't show urgency. I promise they'll only make that mistake once.