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View Full Version : Rate my cleric melee cantrip



stoutstien
2018-10-19, 11:10 PM
I've been using this at my table and it has been received well.
Radiant strike
Evocation cantrip
Casting time- one action
Components- V M(a weapon worth at least 5 copper)
Range- 5 feet

Make a melee weapon attack against a creature. On a hit the weapon flares with holy power.
On a critical hit the target must succeed a CON saving throw or is stunned intil the end of it's next turn.
the melee attack causes an extra 1d6 radiant damage at
5th, 11th, and 17th level.

Now on first glance it seems really powerful to allow a chance to stun at-will seems really over powered but it comes up very rarely and the player has to pump casting and attack stat to pull it off.

Thoughts?

pygmybatrider
2018-10-20, 12:56 AM
I like it. Would make Divine Strike clerics more appealing. Doesnít seem too powerful at a glance, unless youíre building some strange barbarian 2/champion3/Cleric X critfishing multiclass.

Iíd personally be tempted to give it an extra 1d6 from the start and make the stun-on-crit until the start of the creatures next turn rather than the end, but thatís just me.

Edit: nvm that, completely forgot that BB and GFB donít add initial target damage til 5.

stoutstien
2018-10-20, 12:33 PM
So far the only way this can really be cheesed out is hexblade 1-3 and rest in divine sorcerer combined with elven accuracy. Had a player do just that going from lv 1 to 11 so far. Honestly though I believe the cantrip I made is the least troublesome part of that combo and is still weaker than Eldritch blast spamming.

pygmybatrider
2018-10-20, 04:07 PM
So far the only way this can really be cheesed out is hexblade 1-3 and rest in divine sorcerer combined with elven accuracy. Had a player do just that going from lv 1 to 11 so far. Honestly though I believe the cantrip I made is the least troublesome part of that combo and is still weaker than Eldritch blast spamming.

Yep, that's the cheesiest way I can imagine of using this cantrip - and if it passed that test it's probably sweet. Even if you do crit, which still doesn't happen all that often with elven acc. and hexblade's curse, the baddie gets a save. Definitely seems like fun and something I might steal for my table.

stoutstien
2018-10-20, 08:37 PM
Yep, that's the cheesiest way I can imagine of using this cantrip - and if it passed that test it's probably sweet. Even if you do crit, which still doesn't happen all that often with elven acc. and hexblade's curse, the baddie gets a save. Definitely seems like fun and something I might steal for my table.

My clerics love it. It works worth divine strike and potent cantrip so it a flexible spell

Grod_The_Giant
2018-10-21, 10:22 AM
To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the implementation. A melee cantrip makes a lot of sense for Clerics (though it is admittedly stronger for them than GFB/BB are for most arcane casters), but I'm not a fan of the on-crit effect. BB/GFB both have riders that make them, from level 1, better options than a standard attack if triggered, and inferior options if not. How 'bout "if the target is an undead or fiend, they take an additional 1d8 radiant damage?"

demonslayerelf
2018-10-21, 11:14 AM
To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the implementation. A melee cantrip makes a lot of sense for Clerics (though it is admittedly stronger for them than GFB/BB are for most arcane casters), but I'm not a fan of the on-crit effect. BB/GFB both have riders that make them, from level 1, better options than a standard attack if triggered, and inferior options if not. How 'bout "if the target is an undead or fiend, they take an additional 1d8 radiant damage?"

I'm with this guy, but instead of the +1d8, you should just do what Toll the Dead does. If the target is fiendish or undead, the d6's become d10's or d12's. Something nice like that.

stoutstien
2018-10-21, 01:38 PM
To be honest, I'm not a huge fan of the implementation. A melee cantrip makes a lot of sense for Clerics (though it is admittedly stronger for them than GFB/BB are for most arcane casters), but I'm not a fan of the on-crit effect. BB/GFB both have riders that make them, from level 1, better options than a standard attack if triggered, and inferior options if not. How 'bout "if the target is an undead or fiend, they take an additional 1d8 radiant damage?"

problem here is is fells too much like divine strike from paladin. i agree it needs to be weaker than bb/GRB. how bout on hit the target cant take reactions until start of next turn? that way it allow clerics to continue to be the support role by allowing more freedom of movement of allies.
i do like the toll the dead idea maybe ill toy with it.

Grod_The_Giant
2018-10-21, 03:50 PM
problem here is is fells too much like divine strike from paladin. i agree it needs to be weaker than bb/GRB. how bout on hit the target cant take reactions until start of next turn? that way it allow clerics to continue to be the support role by allowing more freedom of movement of allies.
i do like the toll the dead idea maybe ill toy with it.
No reactions works.

demonslayerelf
2018-10-22, 07:27 AM
No reactions works.

Never mind, not with this guy.

No reactions just makes this a better version of Shocking Grasp. Anything equal to a dagger with a +2 damage modifier(Whether magic, dex, or strength) beats or ties SG in damage, AND it has two better damage types than lightning(BPS, Radiant).

Don't do this, make it more similar to the other weapon cantrips or into it's own thing, don't just steal another cantrip's rider. It's boring.

Man_Over_Game
2018-10-22, 12:04 PM
Never mind, not with this guy.

No reactions just makes this a better version of Shocking Grasp. Anything equal to a dagger with a +2 damage modifier(Whether magic, dex, or strength) beats or ties SG in damage, AND it has two better damage types than lightning(BPS, Radiant).

Don't do this, make it more similar to the other weapon cantrips or into it's own thing, don't just steal another cantrip's rider. It's boring.

Agreed. Shocking Grasp has a strong effect but bad damage. We should not be looking to making something that makes it completely useless.

I'm strongly against the idea of having a spell that relies on more Hexblade options. There's already enough that it synergizes with, and adding another cantrip so we can justify more Hexblade dips isn't "versatility".

How about the next attack the target makes has Disadvantage. This would make it like Frostbite or Vicious Mockery, but has better damage, relies on AC, and requires melee range to offset the gains. It'd be different enough to not step on the toes of the ranged versions. It also assists with the Cleric playstyle of supporting your team.

stoutstien
2018-10-22, 02:53 PM
Agreed. Shocking Grasp has a strong effect but bad damage. We should not be looking to making something that makes it completely useless.

I'm strongly against the idea of having a spell that relies on more Hexblade options. There's already enough that it synergizes with, and adding another cantrip so we can justify more Hexblade dips isn't "versatility".

How about the next attack the target makes has Disadvantage. This would make it like Frostbite or Vicious Mockery, but has better damage, relies on AC, and requires melee range to offset the gains. It'd be different enough to not step on the toes of the ranged versions. It also assists with the Cleric playstyle of supporting your team.

I was just reading over vicious mockery and liked that idea also. D4 die for damage should be about right.

Man_Over_Game
2018-10-22, 03:51 PM
I was just reading over vicious mockery and liked that idea also. D4 die for damage should be about right.

To make it so that Vicious Mockery isn't too terribly outdone, I'd make the 1d4 only scale after level 5.

So it'd be
Weapon damage + 0, 1-4
Weapon damage + 1d4, 5-10
Weapon damage + 2d4, 11-16
Weapon Damage + 3d4, 17-20

I recommend this because the disadvantage will be always valid at every level, attacks against AC have a higher per-hit chance than saving throws, and the weapon damage is always going to be greater than 1d4.

I'd say this would almost be a guaranteed lock-in for any melee cleric, unless they were some murderhobo trying to stack as much damage as possible with Booming Blade.