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Nero24200
2007-09-18, 04:08 AM
Hello there everyone, I am in need of aid for a little challange I've arranged with a friend.
He claims that monks are overpowered...


If you're still reading this, it means you beleive me. I agreed to prove him wrong by writing up 4 characters, 1 wizard, 1 fighter, 1 rogue and 1 cleric, to take the monk in a one-on-one fight each. But I don't just want to win. If I only just beat him, he'll claim it's a fluke, so if any have any particulerly powerful builds for 20th level characters of these types, please post them here (Prefebly anything that can kill in one round, so if he claims it's a fluke, I can just do it again and again until he claims otherwise.)

Books being Used

Book of Exalted Deeds (Feats only), Book of Vile Darkness (Feats only), Complete Arcana, Complete Adventurer, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior, Ebberon Players Handbook (Feats and New Races only)

Dairun Cates
2007-09-18, 04:13 AM
For the record, I'll find it humorous if he builds a high save character to defeat the batman wizard.

PlatinumJester
2007-09-18, 04:18 AM
Find the Logic Ninja's guide to batman for the Wizard.
Cleric should be easy to make.
Take a level or 2 of shadow dancer for the Rogue for Hide in Plain sight.
Make the fighter a dwarf, give him fullplate, a tower shield and a dwarven waraxe and the get Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialisation etc.

kpenguin
2007-09-18, 04:22 AM
The standard Shock Trooper+Jump Attack+Power Attack thing for the fighter. Pump up your bonus damage so much he'll have to take notice (+5 weapon, full power attack, Weapon Focus tree)

Also, during each win, yell "REPENT! REPENT!" It won't help, but it'll be funny.

Overlard
2007-09-18, 05:16 AM
Make sure all characters are capable of Freedom Of Movement (via a spell or an item).

With the fighter, make use of Improved Trip if you can - he'll probably be trying to trip you, and with a full BAB, a better Str and Improved Trip, hopefully he'll be SOL). Might be worth looking into sundering/disarming him of his magic items too (amulet of mighty fists? Bye...) Try and be a larger size than him too. You'll be able to outdamage him quite well. Don't rely on AoOs, as he'll probably have plenty of ways to avoid them.

A cleric should be hard to screw up, and as long as you don't make terrible tactical errors, most wizards should be more than OK. You could be cruel and do the forcecage/cloudkill combo. But he gets one dim door per day, so try making an illusion of a forcecage first, so he wastes it escaping from a low-level spell he could have walked through.

Rogue will probably be the toughest to achieve. I'd recommend he doesn't have true seeing or the like and use a wand of improved invisibility. Then use a bow while flying for maximum sneak attack damage.

jademonkey
2007-09-18, 06:09 AM
20th level cleric or wizard against a monk? He'll have OK anti-magic defenses and SR might be mildly irritating but shouldn't really bother you.

Wizard

Choose whatever full casting build you like, it's no big deal. Choose spells that don't give saves, as a rule, however I find monks *tend* to not have very high Fort saves. Have Contingency up. Cast Prismatic Sphere. Laugh. Seriously, there are so many ways to kill a monk as a wizard, it's not funny. And you really shouldn't take any damage.

Cleric

Call me a traditionalist, but I do like a good smackdown. (If you wanted to be cheesy, increase your caster level & Word of Chaos him to death.) Or just bash his face in.

Falrin
2007-09-18, 06:54 AM
Buffing Time? Area?


If you have free buffing time it should be a cakewalk. If not get your buffs up with Time Stop.

Wizard:

Build:

Wizard 7/IOTSV 8/Archmage 5

Base defense:

AC increases +
Fly: A given.
Greater Invisibility: He'll probably have a way around this or he's already dead.
Mirror Image: Backing up Invisibility.
Contingency: 'when someone attacks me: DD x in sky'.
Moment of Prescience

Base Offense:

Quickened True Strike +
Maximized, Empowered, Arcane Reached Shivering Touch.
That's 27 Dex Damage at a range of 60 Ft.

If he survives this hitting with a following Ray/Touch should be a lot easier.

Quickened, Maximized ray of Enfeeblement +
Ray Of Exhaustion.
That's 17 Str Damage.


But you want to do it with as low LvL/Humiliating/fun tricks.


Unresistable Dance is a nice one.
Dominate Person.
Hitting his movement and finish him with Magic missiles.
Summoning: 1d3 +1 VII, + Quickened VI. Repeat & Lower till the Battle grid is Full.
Go Melee. Lot's of Buffs, Quickened True Strike & Power Attack. When a full caster can Melee a Monk you should make a point.

lord_khaine
2007-09-18, 07:26 AM
hmm, its hardly a fair contest when you have to make 4 different builds to beat 1 class, while he has to make 1 that have to beat 4 classes.

Tyger
2007-09-18, 07:31 AM
hmm, its hardly a fair contest when you have to make 4 different builds to beat 1 class, while he has to make 1 that have to beat 4 classes.

That's a good point. Is he permitted to change his build in between fights? Otherwise its not really a fair contest. The monk should be built so as to fight the class its going up against, after all, the wizard is being built to defeat the monk. Granted, its easy to make that build. :smallsmile:

ocato
2007-09-18, 07:36 AM
Give the rogue a wand of greater invisibility, 3 scout levels, a powerful bow, and the feats swift ambusher and improved skirmish. A L17 rogue/3 scout ought to be able to move 20 feet and plug him for a lot of d6 a round. Also, rumor is that improved manyshot

Missed the book requirements. The wand a bow ought to allow for good sneak-snipes. Use the rogue special 'every time you sneak attack, they lose 2 STR' special ability and make it a battle of attrition.

mostlyharmful
2007-09-18, 07:37 AM
to be fair to the wizard, the above build isn't a MONKonly work-up, it's a kill-anything-even-vaguely-close-to-reasonable-CR build. The cleric and druid would also look very normal. for full casters you don't even really need a specific build, straight base class with standerd feats and spell selection ought to do the job comfortablly without knowing a kamikaze monk is going to throw themselves at you

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-18, 07:42 AM
f you're still reading this, it means you beleive me. I agreed to prove him wrong by writing up 4 characters, 1 wizard, 1 fighter, 1 rogue and 1 cleric, to take the monk in a one-on-one fight each. But I don't just want to win. If I only just beat him, he'll claim it's a fluke, so if any have any particulerly powerful builds for 20th level characters of these types, please post them here (Prefebly anything that can kill in one round, so if he claims it's a fluke, I can just do it again and again until he claims otherwise.)

Wait, do you need a 20th level wizard, cleric, fighter, and rogue? or a 20th level build for a wizard-type, cleric-type, fighter-type, rogue-type? (as in, you could have the rogue-type be a scout/ranger with no rogue at all, but still count)

kjones
2007-09-18, 07:43 AM
stuff

I second this build, only I would recommend Wiz 5/Fatespinner 2/IOTSV 7/Archmage 6. He'll rue the day he allowed CArc...

Caewil
2007-09-18, 08:21 AM
I think we should stick to single-Class builds, uness the monk guy is going to use PrC's, etc. Remember, this about showing how weak the monk is, not how well we can optimise.

The wizard and cleric won't break a sweat.

The fighter should go for maximum strength & fullplate. Give him a Kukri or a shortsword, then focus+specialisation. Bear-Fang style works too. Improved Grapple+Enlarge Person. Beat him at his own game. He''l have to pump dex & wis to get a decent AC. You can have 12 dex & fullplate with as much in strength as you want as well as higher BAB. You should have no problems winning grapple checks. This assumes he doesn't use FoM.

At level 20

Since his grapple check sucks, he'll probably use Escape Artist.

Escape Artist = 23 (Skill Ranks) + 11 (Dex, 16 base + 4 leveling up + 6 item + 6 tome) = 34 (assuming he tries to max Dex rather than Wis)

Your Grapple check: 20 (Bab) + 12 (Str, 18 base + 5 Leveling up + 6 item + 6 Tome) + 4 (Improved Grapple) + 4 (Enlarge Person, Permanent) = 40

He stands a good chance of escaping, but at the cost of a standard action. However, if he thinks Monks are OP, he may be stupid enough to actually try grappling. In which case, scrag him with your Kukri/Dagger. If he's smart and tries spring-attack, ready an action to grapple. This has the good point of being utterly humiliating for him.

Or, be direct and go for the shock-trooper/leap attack combo. Thog SMASH. Use a big weapon. Maybe a fullblade. You have the feats to spare. Make sure you have FoM though, although you'll probably one-hit him.

SadisticFishing
2007-09-18, 08:33 AM
For the Fighter, Leap Attack, Power Attack, Shock Trooper is definitely the way to go. Barbarian is actually a better class at level 20 though. Also, take Karmic Strike and/or Robillar's Gambit (take combat reflexes) if you want it to absolutely destroy him, flurry into a lot of AoO's is abd for him.

For the Wizard, just Forcecage and Quicken Dimension Lock. Laugh for several hours then kill him any way you want. Another option is just fly, and cast Mordenkainen's Disjuction, or Dispel Magic and Shatter. Prismatic Sphere makes it very dangerous for him to get near you.

Cleric. Righteous Might, Divine Power, Divine Favor, Greater Magic Weapon, and any other buffs you deem decent should trivialize this fight.

Rogue is definately the hardest. As a rogue 20, I'm not sure you can beat him consistently. Though monks are definately not overpowered, neither are rogues. Just dual wield and Use Magic Device a lot to turn invisible, fly, and possibly Disjunction him again.

Person_Man
2007-09-18, 08:36 AM
Wizard and Cleric (Travel and Trickery domains): Cast Fly or Invisibility. Summon monsters until he dies.

Fighter: Two handed weapon, Karmic Strike.

Rogue: Drink a potion of Greater Invisibility. Take the Staggering Strike feat. If you don't want a Invisibility cheese kill, take Improved Feint, Staggering Strike, and a dagger whip.

Lord Tataraus
2007-09-18, 08:52 AM
Definitely take Robillar's Gambit for the fighter. I would suggest the charging/bull rushing build.

Rogue is basically going to be all about the invisibility, fly and snipe with sneak attack damage.

Solo
2007-09-18, 08:57 AM
Wizard:

Make sure to win Initiative and cast Forcage on him. Then laugh. And then go do the laundry and throw a tea party.

Jack_Simth
2007-09-18, 09:09 AM
Hmm...

Fighter:
Pretty straightforward; Dwarf in +5 Adamantine Fullplate, potion of Enlarge Person, Animated +5 Tower Shield, Quickdraw, a bunch of darts, and a +5 Flaming Frost Shocking spiked chain. Pick up all the Improved X feats, just to be on the safe side. He Spring Attacks you? Full Attack him with darts, he's screwed. He tries to Full Attack you? Full attack back - you've got better HP and AC and Attack bonus... plus DR.

Rogue:
Can't hit what you can't find. Goblin, max ranks in Hide and Move Silently (also Use Magic Device). Focus on Dex, and get Greater Silent Moves and Greater Shadow on your +1 Padded Leather armor (+15 Competence to Hide and Move Silently; get +8 Bracers of Armor for the actual AC). Take Stealthy, Skill Focus (Hide) and Skill Focus (Move Silently). Snipe with a wand of Orb of Acid at caster level 2 (750 gp - you want the 30 foot range for Sneak Attack). Make sure the DM enforces distance penalties to Spot and Listen, and don't neglect those two skills yourself. No SR Touch Attack Sneak Attacks? Very useful. You should have a Hide and Move Silently modifier of +47+Dex modifier (which you should be able to get up to about +10 or so). Get Skill Mastery for both Hide and Move Silently. Even with the -20 penalty for hiding after Sniping, you're looking at DC 47 for him to find you (taking 10 on both, +57 to the check from 23 skill ranks, +15 Competence, +5 from feats, +10 from Dex, +4 from Size for Hide, Racial for Move Silently). Oh, and get a Ring of Invisibility, too, for when he eventually does make the DC (a monk-20 with max ranks in Spot and a +10 Wisdom modifier needs a 14; there's no sniping penalty to Move Silently, so he'll never hear you at all). You can replace the Wand of Acid Splash with a shortbow and some arrows, if you think that the spoken word to activate the Wand will be a problem.

Cleric:
See Fighter, but use spells. Divine Power/Righteous Might/and a Quickened Divine Favor during a Time Stop (trickery Domain) will have you all set for massive pounding. Magic Vestments and Greater Magic Weapon means you don't have to spend much on your weapons and armor. Make sure to max Concentration so you can step back and Heal yourself when the Monk thinks he might be winning.

Wizard:
Time Stop/Cloudkill/Forcecage won't work - a monk-20 is naturally immune to poison - try Time Stop/Dimensional Lock/Extended Acid Fog/Forcecage. If you can spare the cash, get a Greater Wand of Empower Spell or Maximize Spell for the Time Stop (to ensure at least three rounds to cast). You can also use the rod on the Acid Fog, if you want. You'll want lots of SR penetration feats (as Dimensional Lock permits SR). Prepare multiple copies of this - he can naturally Dimension Door on at least one attempt, and he can get several more by way of a Cape of the Mounteback, boots of Teleportation, or a Helm of Teleportation. However he tries to get out, though, it ends his turn. You'll also want a contingent spell running when you enter the arena - Dimension Door, Resilient Sphere, or something else; doesn't matter overly much what, specifically, provided it gets you away from him after he's committed to an attack (I'm assuming the Monk wins initiative, for this one).

In all cases, you want a Ring of Freedom of Movement, and probably Improved Initiative as well. I suggest skipping Prestige classes, and keeping to Core - the point you're trying to make is that the Monk class is a little underpowered at 20th compared to other classes, not that Prestige Class Combo # 3491357 with non-core Feats A, B, C, D, E, and F is overpowered.

AtomicKitKat
2007-09-18, 09:15 AM
Look on the WotC CO boards for the Arena Fight Monk vs Wizard. IIRC, the DM in charge of the fight totally bollocksed it up, allowing the Monk to go straight into a pin on his Charge.

Solo
2007-09-18, 09:19 AM
The wizard will need to have a Silent Domention Door prepared incase the monk wins initiative and starts a grapple.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-09-18, 09:25 AM
Rogue build- Human Rogue 10 Assassin 10. Maximize stats in this order- intelligence, dexterity, constitution, strength, wisdom, charisma. Pick up the spring attack feat, improved initiative, and two skill rings- hide +20 and move silently +20. Maximize hide and move silently. The rest is up to you.

At the start of combat, hide. Next round, cast deeper darkness on the battlefield, then hide again. Follow this up with greater invisibility, then hiding again just to compound the problem for the monk. Watch him for three rounds while remaining hidden. Attempt a spring attack'd death attack. If you miss, use the end of the spring attack to return to hiding and wait an additional 3 rounds. Recast spells when needed to ruin the monk's day.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-18, 09:33 AM
Just for fun, another bunch of wizard combos include
* Solid fog to hold him, then maneuver a prismatic sphere above him, then reverse gravity, then dismiss your reverse gravity. He'll take some minor falling damage, plus every single Prismatic layer four times.
* Maximized time stop (via rod of metamagic) then surround him with empowered (via IOT7C) delayed blast fireballs, then finish off with meteor swarm.
* Maximized enervation + quickened enervation, repeat a few times until he's no longer a thread, then disintegrate.
* And of course the old classic Shapeshift. Get him to grapple a huge dragon :smallbiggrin:

Draz74
2007-09-18, 10:05 AM
Just for fun, another bunch of wizard combos include
* Solid fog to hold him, then maneuver a prismatic sphere above him, then reverse gravity, then dismiss your reverse gravity. He'll take some minor falling damage, plus every single Prismatic layer four times.
* Maximized time stop (via rod of metamagic) then surround him with empowered (via IOT7C) delayed blast fireballs, then finish off with meteor swarm.
* Maximized enervation + quickened enervation, repeat a few times until he's no longer a thread, then disintegrate.
* And of course the old classic Shapeshift. Get him to grapple a huge dragon :smallbiggrin:

The fireball/meteor combo is a bad idea. "Hey look, I just made 5 of my 8 Reflex saves, good thing I only took half my HP in damage from the three remaining spells that could actually hurt me. Yay Evasion!"

On the other hand, the Shapeshift idea is great. Just remember that it doesn't give you dragon HP. But yeah ... a monk vs. an Ancient Gold is screwed. Or vs. a Solar. That kind of thing.

Others: the Reverse Gravity into a Prismatic Sphere will be deadly, but in actual practice will be very difficult to maneuver the Monk into. Spamming Enervation is good, but it's better Empowered than Maximized. Oh, and you can use Energy Drain (9th level version) too. With a Medium Rod of Quicken, it shouldn't be too hard to hit him with an Energy Drain spell and an Empowered Enervation in the same round, which is pretty good. As long as you're going for the necromantic de-buff route, though, you might as well also spend one round (and one charge of your Quicken Rod) to hit him with Empowered Ray of Enfeeblement and Ray of Exhaustion too.

Citizen Joe
2007-09-18, 10:15 AM
You should make a munchkin commoner 20 build with magic items if you really want to make a point.

UglyPanda
2007-09-18, 10:28 AM
I notice that you allowed Vow of Poverty. Are you guys playing with less-than-usual wealth-by-level? If you are, then that may be the reason your friend thinks monks are so powerful.

OverdrivePrime
2007-09-18, 10:30 AM
For added fun, build a spare bard and beat him with that if he still doesn't yield.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-18, 10:56 AM
The fireball/meteor combo is a bad idea. "Hey look, I just made 5 of my 8 Reflex saves, good thing I only took half my HP in damage from the three remaining spells that could actually hurt me. Yay Evasion!"

I'm not sure, but I think a 20th level wizard can spam enough (empowered admixted) damaging spells to overkill him into the ground anyway, since the monk tends to lack a stellar Con. 20d8 is less than 100 hit points, on average.

Meteor Swarm is 32d6 (avg 112), no save. DBFs to a monk are 10d6 (avg 35), save for none, at a decent DC since it's level-7, increasable via Fox's Cunning. Time Stop means five of these, plus you can probably get some extras via Rod of Quicken, and I believe there was some spell that allowed your familiar to cast spells for you, and via IOT7C you can empower them and I believe admixting adds yet more damage.

I just thought it would be fun to nuke the monk with what is generally considered the worst school of magic. Plus it's fun to have him wonder, "I have to roll how many saving throws?" :smallbiggrin:

Telonius
2007-09-18, 11:01 AM
If you really want to add insult to injury, I'd suggest building a "Fake Monk" for the Fighter.

Human Fighter, Strength-focused.
Feats:
1: Improved Unarmed Strike
1(Human): Stunning Fist
1(Fighter): Power Attack
2(Fighter): Improved Grapple
3: Deflect Arrows
4(Fighter): Improved Disarm
6: Combat Reflexes
6(Fighter): Improved Trip
8(Fighter): Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
9: Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)
10(Fighter): Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
12: Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)

Fill in the rest of the feats with whatever you want, put on your armor, get yourself some enchanted gauntlets (with which you are proficient), and watch him cry.
EDIT: Oh yeah, the crowning touch of that would be to equip him with a Monk's Belt.:smallbiggrin:

Person_Man
2007-09-18, 11:11 AM
Wizard:

Make sure to win Initiative and cast Forcage on him. Then laugh. And then go do the laundry and throw a tea party.

Forcecage wouldn't work. Monks get Abundant Step.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-09-18, 11:13 AM
I missed something in my rogue build- an amulet of true seeing so that the darkness doesn't hinder yourself. If the monk has one too, still cast the deeper darkness spell- it creates a 60-foot radius of shadowy illumination, and hide in plain sight is the key to winning without taking any damage here. Also, consider getting some sort of freedom of movement enchantment (duh) and either crippling strike for added ownage or skill mastery: hide if you want to remove the only tiny percentage the poor monk ever had of finding you in the first place. And bring lots of poison. I suggest Deathblade and Purple Worm Poison. The only way he could find you is if he kills his own effectiveness in combat in order to get an astronomical spot check, and in that case you might as well set up so that you can easily dispatch his pitiful strength and constitution scores with a little poison.

My suggestion for point buy 32 values:
STR- 10. Your damage doesn't actually come from your strength score, so just leave it average.
DEX- 16. This needs to be considerable to both win the initiative to prevent an early upset and hide more proficiently. Pick up weapon finesse to make this shine more.
CON- 11 (12 via level increases). Just there for contingency, in case the monk gets super duper ultra lucky and actually connects.
INT- 18 (22 via level increases). This needs to be huge for death attack. Needs to be. Consider buying a headband of intellect as well for a victory his grandson will feel.
WIS- 9. It's only slightly more necessary then charisma. Not needed for this fight at all, really.
CHA- 8. Even less necessary then wisdom, as it will net you nothing at all.

Duke of URL
2007-09-18, 11:16 AM
EDIT: Oh yeah, the crowning touch of that would be to equip him with a Monk's Belt.:smallbiggrin:

That is just evil... I LOVE it!!!

Citizen Joe
2007-09-18, 11:38 AM
Time Stop means five of these...
No, you can't...


While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell.


You could conceivably cast 5 DB fireballs with decrementing delays so they all go off at once (5 at 20d6). But there's still the evasion thing so you need to render the monk helpless first.

So.... Wish monk to be wearing full plate armor (special monk abilities vanish). Maximized (rod) time stop (5 rounds) 5 DB fireballs timed to go off right after the time stop. 20d6 x 5 save for half... average about 150-300 damage depending on his saves.

Keld Denar
2007-09-18, 11:39 AM
Against abundant step or the ethereal move....

Greater Anticipate Teleport....

3 round time stop if he dares to port less than about 100 ft from you. Plenty of time to put up another forcecage where he will be apearing, comboing with the above mentioned dim. lock and extended acid fog, or, holy ****, this just came to me.....

SHAPED PRISMATIC WALL!

4 10'x10' squares...one of them is the 10' inside of the forcecage, the others are anywhere else. All 7 saves each round....he's doomed to roll a 1 eventually, even multiple ones. I'm pretty sure you can shape prismatic wall...hmmm....

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-09-18, 11:41 AM
For added awesome, make a human warrior with the starting stats of 11, 11, 11, 10, 10, 10. As he levels up, always put the new stat points in strength. You can start grabbing the four feats needed for the classic power attack/leap attack/shock trooper combo at level 9 this way, and will get all four of them at level 18. Give him no magic items. Maybe an adamantine greatsword and a mithral full plate, but that's as far as it goes. For his two level 1, level 3, and level 6 feats, grab improved initiative, skill focus: escape artist, agile, and whatever suits your fancy (I saw nothing useful for the last one). Max out escape artist in order to prevent monk grappling, despite being cross class.

I honestly think that would kill a monk.

Keld Denar
2007-09-18, 11:50 AM
I missed something in my rogue build- an amulet of true seeing

This is a nonstandard item not found in any of the source the OP listed.


And bring lots of poison. I suggest Deathblade and Purple Worm Poison. The only way he could find you is if he kills his own effectiveness in combat in order to get an astronomical spot check, and in that case you might as well set up so that you can easily dispatch his pitiful strength and constitution scores with a little poison.

Except monks above level 11 are totally immune to all normal and magical poisons.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-18, 11:57 AM
No, you can't...
Yes, I can totally cast five DBFs during a (max'ed) time stop and have them go off when the time stop ends, and I can do more by adding quickened DBFs into the mix. I'm reasonably sure I can also do one DBF less, and instead ready an action during the time stop to cast meteor swarm as soon as time starts again (or "when the monk does anything whatsoever"), and I'm also reasonably sure that there was some way to have my familiar casting spells alongside of me, or use an item of DBF if it really has to. Or else buff my Int to make the saving throw harder.

What I was actually looking for is a combo like this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3210862&postcount=24), which does something like 100d6 + 1200 damage, for an average of 1550. That's cheesy, but with substantially less cheese it is still more than sufficient to nuke a monk into the oblivion.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-09-18, 11:57 AM
Huh, a few oversights. No matter- UMD the actual True Seeing spell, and the poisons were more just a nice bonus anyway. I suppose it would be best to take crippling strike, then, because he won't be immune to that and monks tend to have substandard stats.

EDIT: Well, plus that means the monk won't have true seeing... at all. Ever. So as soon as he's neck deep in deeper darkness looking for an invisible man with nigh supernatural hiding skills, he's... well, he's a special sort of screwed.

tannish2
2007-09-18, 12:31 PM
remember if hes going full monk then adamantine wont help, but hammerblock special property on armor WILL if he likes the unarmed aspect, of course, you could always do both.

he cant fly, except with CL 5 potions, so a level 10 wand of dispell magic should beat the crap out of him, if hes REALLY smart he will have gotten air walk (but he thinks monks are an overpowered core class... prepare for it anyway) improved invis CONTINGENT SPELLS (someone attacks me, disentigrate, ray of enfeeblement, finger of death, lightning bolt, (on death) revivify heal teleport overland flight)'

and you could always go for the humiliation matches, 20th level wizard using no spells over level 5,

fighter without magic gear

rog without invisibility cheese (just 2 contingent spells(teleport and overland flight, both core) and a wand of dispell magic, and perhaps a couple of something else that doesnt get a reflex save, then you can pick him off from the sky)

and cleric with either no physical attacks or no spells above fifth level.

you still might kick his ass.

Indon
2007-09-18, 12:50 PM
I'd watch out for Sunder/Disarms on your Rogue and Fighter. The monk gets one flurried series of those, and he can strip you of a number of magical items (IIRC, you don't even get an opposed roll if he tries to Sunder something that isn't your weapon, he just has to hit 10+Your dex mod+Item size mod and then break it).

Unless he's a good tactician, you shouldn't have too much trouble.

Setra
2007-09-18, 01:00 PM
20d8 is less than 100 hit points, on average.
If his HP is slightly over 100 why not..

Quickened Damage Spell + Power Word Kill, for the Wiz?

Just a random thought. >>;

Edit: Then again the Wiz had plenty of options regardless, I just like Power Word Kill.

Duke of URL
2007-09-18, 01:34 PM
and you could always go for the humiliation matches

For the Cleric "humiliation match", use raise dead, heal, and then kill him again. Repeat until you run out of spells.

Citizen Joe
2007-09-18, 01:43 PM
For the Cleric "humiliation match", use raise dead, heal, and then kill him again. Repeat until you run out of spells.

That's sucking levels from him each time.
He can also reject the raise dead if he so chooses.

Kurald Galain
2007-09-18, 03:24 PM
That's sucking levels from him each time.
He can also reject the raise dead if he so chooses.

That doesn't make it any less humiliating.
Cleric: "Get up! Get up, thou craven coward!"
Monk: "I don't wanna. Mommy?"

Just Alex
2007-09-18, 06:57 PM
Yes, I can totally cast five DBFs during a (max'ed) time stop and have them go off when the time stop ends, and I can do more by adding quickened DBFs into the mix. I'm reasonably sure I can also do one DBF less, and instead ready an action during the time stop to cast meteor swarm as soon as time starts again (or "when the monk does anything whatsoever"), and I'm also reasonably sure that there was some way to have my familiar casting spells alongside of me, or use an item of DBF if it really has to. Or else buff my Int to make the saving throw harder.

Even assuming an Int of 34, Spell Focus (Evocation), and Greater Spell Focus, you're only up to a DC 31 Reflex save. Assuming a Dex of 10, a naked Monk still has a 10% chance to make that save and take no damage. Realistically, a monk of that level should have a Dex between 16 and 20 with a +5 Cloak of Resistance. That leaves him with between a 55%-65% chance to make that save and take no damage.
When Reflex/Half becomes Reflex/Negate, it's really not that useful.

Citizen Joe
2007-09-18, 07:02 PM
Even assuming an Int of 34, Spell Focus (Evocation), and Greater Spell Focus, you're only up to a DC 31 Reflex save. Assuming a Dex of 10, a naked Monk still has a 10% chance to make that save and take no damage.

That's why you have to wish the monk into some plate mail. He loses all those nice abilities while in armor. There's probably a lower level spell to accomplish that, but if you've got wish...

Dr. Weasel
2007-09-18, 08:42 PM
The Rogue's the one with problems. You might be able to snipe him with Manyshot (you've got to make contact with your arrows), but he probably has rather high spot checks. You'll need to find some means of reliably sneak-attacking him without having your face eaten by Stunning Fist.

The most straight-forward approach would probably be Wand*-of-Polymorphing yourself into a twelve-headed hydra and eating him (you probably will go first because stealth and detection are what Rogues do). Get Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple and Great Fortitude.

Fear his Stunning Fists though. If he's trying to twink out and thinks VoP is a pretty damn incredible feat, his DCs will be scary. Either pump your Fortitude saves or stay out of reach

*(You don't need a wand, but it seems less cheesy than a one-use scroll)

SandDemon
2007-09-18, 09:24 PM
Going on a limb here (not really a munchkin type), but aren't there any disgusting traps you could just set up at your feet and suicide you both as he comes close?

Eldritch_Ent
2007-09-18, 09:40 PM
For the Fighter, I'd suggest being a Tripmonkey. Disarm won't be too useful against a monk, since he'll probably be punching you, but you could probably keep him tripped with a good build, and power attack him while he's prone. (Maybe hit him with a Tanglefoot Bag while you're at it.)

With a Mage, You can always shapeshift. Preferably into something Incorporeal. (Or, if you can find it, taht has Regeneration as an EX quality. If it exists.)

For the priest? Don't take the Chaos domain. you'd want a "general" kill rather than an "specifically Anti Monk" kill, I'd think.

Indon
2007-09-18, 09:50 PM
With a Mage, You can always shapeshift. Preferably into something Incorporeal. (Or, if you can find it, taht has Regeneration as an EX quality. If it exists.)


Don't go Incorporeal if the Monk's player knows his abilities; he can just Empty Body and beat you up with impunity (being also incorporeal while being in the Etheral plane).

tannish2
2007-09-18, 10:18 PM
but contingent spells are better... (on taking damage: tensers transformation, greater fireburst, improved invis, nightstalkers transformation, stoneskin, and maybe something else.)