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Malapterus
2018-10-20, 10:15 AM
I need to add something to the orcs and half-orcs to help balance them out in the wide world of 3.5 where Strength is not such a big deal. I am going to give my suggestions and I want you guys to help me pick one or two of them to help balance out these green boy. First, the base stats - then I'll put my suggestions for add-ons to these two races.

-Orcs - I decided to keep the double penalty. It's tradition, and it gives me room to work on the bonus.

+4 Strength, -4 Intelligence, -4 Charisma.
Medium: As Medium creatures, orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
orc base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: 60 feet.
Orcs may treat orc double axes ad martial weapons and greatclubs as simple weapons.
Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.

Half-Orcs
-A Half-Orc is a hybrid of an Orc and another Medium Humanoid. The Orc half is dominant in their breeding.

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma.
Medium: As Medium creatures, half-orcs have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Half-orc base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision: 60 feet.
Half-Orcs may treat orc double axes ad martial weapons and greatclubs as simple weapons.
Unsavory Hybrid: For any effects or rules that specify, a half-orc counts as an orc and a human.
Automatic Languages: Common and Orc. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Giant, Gnoll, Goblin, and Abyssal.


ORC UPGRADES - Help me tack some of these on to what I already have.

Orcs are tough - Half-orcs get 2 extra HP at level 1 and 1 extra HP per level after that; full-blooded orcs get double that.

Orcs are study - Half-orcs get +2 natural armor, full orcs get +4

Orcs are strong - A half-orc or orc wielding a weapon in one hand adds 1.5x his Strength bonus to it instead of the normal 1x. In two hands, he gets 2x his Strength bonus added to damage. He can wield a two-handed weapon in one-hand without penalty, but this does not allow him to wield weapons that would be too large for a Medium humanoid. An Orc can use both hands to throw a two-handed weapon or a small object, but he has no racial proficiency to do so.

Orcs are strong, I said - a half-orc's carrying capacity is increased by 50%. A full orc's carrying capacity is doubled.

Orcs are powerful - When a half-orc wears armor he is proficient with, the Maximum Dexterity Bonus increases by one and the Armor Check decreases by one, to a minimum of 0. These bonuses are doubled for full orcs.

Orcs are savage - When a half-orc or orc makes only one attack in a round, be it either a standard action or a full round action, he gets a damage bonus equal to half his level, minimum 1.

Orcs are heavy - Orcs and half-orcs get a +2 bonus to making and resisting maneuvers such as Trip, Grapple, and Bull Rush. (basically any check where being a size bigger gives you +4, orcs and half-orcs get +2)

Orcs are scary - an orc or half-orc can add half his Strength bonus to Intimidation checks.

Orcs are hungry - this is actually an additonal penalty I thought would be interesting. Half-Orcs consume twice as much food as a normal Medium Humanoid; Orcs consume three times as much.

Orcs are dangerous - Orcs and half-orcs do not have an unarmed strike. They may take Improved Unarmed Strike and gain lethal and nonlethal unarmed strikes per a Medium Humanoid, but with or without that feat they have a natural Slam attack. This is 1d4 Bludgeoning for a half-orc and 1d6 for a full orc. The tusks of an orc give them a clumsy but better-than-nothing bite attack; 1d3 piercing for a half-orc and 1d4 for a full orc, critical 19-20x2. Half-orcs cannot make multiple natural attacks like monsters can, but may use both hands to Slam under the rules for Two-Weapon Fighting. Full-orcs can make a full natural attack like a monster, with their bite being the primary weapon - though they are almost always better off using a manufactured weapon.

so, yeah, give me some ideas on groups of those that would go well with what I already have. I can't decide! If you think some of them should be powered up or powered down, by all means say so.

Sto
2018-10-20, 10:30 AM
I like the extra health and the STR to intimidate. Orcs are supposed to be intimidating but the charisma penalty makes that a little harder. Halflings can be scarier than orcs. You'd be giving them both a slightly improved version of the improved toughness feat, and that will be good for traditionally melee races. Is this PF orcs and half orcs? Because I don't remember half orcs getting proficiency in the double axe.

Kayblis
2018-10-20, 10:37 AM
I see that the Half-orc is not very strong, but don't overdo it - most races give small, negligible bonuses and the strongest races give a feat or good equivalent. For starters, orcs are savage - having armor bonuses doesn't make much sense if most of them don't really use it, specially heavy armor. Second, they're the high-end of Medium, so I believe the half-size bonuses are good and fit well. Third, they're famous for being scary and intimidating, so it really doesn't make sense for them to have a worse Intimidation check than everyone else thanks to -4 Charisma.

Because of all that, I believe you could use those together:
-More carrying capacity
-Bonuses to resist maneuvers
-Half STR to Intimidation
-Hungry because it's cool

The rest either doesn't fit or would make Orcs way too good, because they're still a common race.

denthor
2018-10-20, 01:18 PM
In pathfinder a full orc can fight, cast spells until they are negative equal to one point more the constitution score.

So 1 hit die orc with a 16 constitution 1d8 +16. No levels minimum 17 maximum 24

Prince Gimli
2018-10-21, 05:56 AM
Especially for the Half Orc, I'd definitely look into Pathfinder, as half orcs are actually a really solid race to play there - especially with some of their alternate racial features. How about a +1 luck bonus to ALL saving throws (Sacred Tattoo alt. racial trait). And they get to swap out a bunch of racial features for other things, some of which are quite flavorful and/or useful.

Instead of fixed racial bonuses/penalties to ability scores, they get a +2 to any stat of choice (just like humans and half-elves in PF, which I think is just awesome, personally :smallsmile:)

And of course darkvision is always very nice to have, and in (lower level) dungeon crawl campaigns it's just awesome.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2018-10-21, 09:17 AM
Give them the Menacing Demeanor feat (+4 intimidate) as a bonus feat instead of the half Str to Intimidate. You can already get it via the Otyugh Hole in CS for gp, this just saves a step.

Make the ability score penalties Choose Two: -4 Int; -4 Wis; -4 Cha for Orcs, and Half-Orcs pick two at -2, or can pick one at -4. Orcs normally get -2 Int, Wis, Cha, and you can say a typical Orc doesn't have Wis penalized, but this allows you to have smarter Orcs or more charismatic leader Orcs, while Half-Orcs aren't forced out of a huge array of archetypes due to the fixed ability penalties.

noce
2018-10-21, 09:41 AM
Compare a srd half orc to a srd elf or srd half elf. Is it any worse?

It has a -2 total to stats, but I'd pick it over the -2 con of elves.

It lacks bonus to skills, so I'd just say give the srd half orc +2 to intimidate and survival to make it better than elves and halfelves, and on par with halflings.

wilphe
2018-10-21, 01:01 PM
I have toyed with giving half orcs a con bonus (and if people want to ask why when orcs and humans have it I would mutter something about hybrid vigour)

They still won't be great choices for arcane casters, but gives them more upside as something other than melee brutes

Nifft
2018-10-21, 07:04 PM
Orcs may treat orc double axes ad martial weapons and greatclubs as simple weapons.
(...)
Half-Orcs may treat orc double axes ad martial weapons and greatclubs as simple weapons.


I've never seen a character built around either of those weapons. If you want people to care about racial weapons, pick some of the more popular weapons.

Scimitars & Falchions -- these are basically what the Uruk-Hai used in the LotR movies, so they're harmonious with some source material.

Spiked Chains -- a perennial favorite, and supports a range of character concepts from "dexterous tripper" to "strong tripper".

Axes -- axe throwing is a bit of a fad right now, so cash in on it by making your Half-Orcs able to throw Greataxes as if they were javelins.

Blackhawk748
2018-10-22, 12:31 PM
I like the HP and Intimidate ones, as I do something similar. Though mine is +2 Con and you use Str instead of Cha for Intimidate and it's always a class skill.

Half Orcs then get the same Intimidate package and their. Choice between +2 Str or Con and then their choice between -2 Int or Cha.