Will Durkon be resurrected?

[garbanzo]

Been reading since 2006, and used to post on these forums looooong ago under a forgotten username. I'm back, whoever I am!

I was surprised that in my perusals of the forums, I haven't seen this theory laid out:
I have a sinking feeling that our favorite sagely dwarf will not return to the Prime Material Plane. At least, not in the flesh.

Here are my reasons:

1. The Odds: In #1133, Durkon lays out the slim odds of his resurrection going off without a hitch... then seems to imply that this makes his resurrection all-but-inevitable, by Elan's understanding of probability in a narrative. Which means that in the mind of Durkon and the audience, the odds are no longer against him... which means our expectations will likely be subverted. This was the first major red flag.

2. The Precedent: Since the Order already underwent an arduous journey to resurrect Roy, it also makes dramatic sense to subvert our desires/expectations this time around and leave Durkon dead.

3. The Situation: The Order currently lies unconscious in the hall. Belkar stands nearly dead over the ashes of Durkon. Hilgya stands next to him, presumably at full hit points, having regained her consciousness. She came here with one mission that we know of: to murder Durkon Thundershield. She won't stand for his resurrection, and Belkar's got an awfully big mouth. The moment he mentions something about rezzing "the real" Durkon, either Hilgya knocks out Belkar and steals the ashes, or she casts a spell like Wind Wall on the ashes, dispersing them. (Come to think of it, besides revealing that Durkon is a "pa," what narrative role has her return served so far?)

4. Durkon's Role: Though this past arc starring Durkon has been absolutely spectacular, Durkon is not the main protagonist of these books; Roy is. What is Durkon’s narrative role? He's the rock: Roy’s stalwart companion, and the party’s spiritual guide. He has now been divinely tasked with a new role (which he’s unwittingly held the whole time): the diplomat. Are these narrative roles that Durkon must be alive to play? No. In fact, he might play them better as a ghost. (Besides, we’ve already seen Redcloak use True Seeing to spot ghosts — most recently with V’s soul splices, I think. Foreshadowing, perhaps?)

5. The Impact: We know that this story does not have a happy ending for everyone. Durkon, dead for good? That hurts. That has weight.

6. The Parallel: When the Order of the Scribble traveled 66 years ago, it was the stoic dwarf who sacrificed himself to seal the rifts. It’s a fitting parallel that Durkon’s sacrifice help to accomplish the same goal. It be the Dwarven way.

7. The Cliffhanger: What better cliffhanger to end the book on? In the afterlife, Durkon has just discovered the nature of the multiverse and the Order’s true quest... and he cannot return to the Prime.

8. The Stakes: It raises the stakes intensely if the Order needs to face the final encounters of the story without Durkon -- and I doubt they'd keep Hilgya around if she'd prevented them from raising him (if she would even care to stick around). Furthermore, if Elan be the heart and soul of the team, Durkon is the glue. What will happen to them without his balancing presence? A lot of dramatic tension. (Just like what happened to the Order of the Scribble as they grieved Kraagor...)

9. The Hidden Opportunity: We have seen Durkon befriend evil clerics more than once. (Malack, likely Hilgya.) How did he do this? One-on-one. When will the Order’s quest afford Durkon opportunities to sit down and have tea with Redcloak? Probably never; one shot at most. Guess what Durkon can do as a ghost? Go talk to Redcloak right now, quite possibly more than once. Haunt that goblin! (Imagine how wonderfully strange these scenes would be.)

10. The Obi-Wan: A wise man struck down really ought to become more powerful than you could possibly imagine, don’t you think?


I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this.

[Rrmcklin]

Yes. Is the thread closed now?

[kiapet]

It would be a twist of massive proportions if Durkon was not resurrected, considering Thor has given him pretty explicit instructions on what to do once he goes back. It would pretty much grind the plot to a halt to have him stay dead at this point.

[martianmister]

Absolutely not.

[Gift Jeraff]

I'm Ieaning toward no.

[Anymage]

With only one book left, there isn't much time before Belkar's prophecy comes on line.

Having a long built up permadeath happen so soon after a surprise permadeath would lessen the impact by a lot. Count that as a strike against Durk staying dead.

[Diceomancer]

He is supposed to initiate a conversation with Redcloak. That would be rather challenging while dead.

Also, all of this information cannot be relayed to the rest of the party, this would be several comics that wouldn't actually contribute to the plot at a fairly dramatic moment.

[Tarthalion]

They have already had the difficult-to-resurrect plot with Roy so, while there might be a few minor hiccups, I don't envisage any great difficulties in getting Durkon back to life.

I can't see Durkon being permanently dead. He's part of the Order of the Stick, the story is about the Order of the Stick, and all the members off the Order of the Stick will survive until close to the end of the last book. (And probably only Belkar won't make it to the end of that one). Ghosts don't cut it for me, because it's Durkon who is the member, not the Ghost of Durkon. While Roy was dead, he was unable to act as a part of the Order, because of his inability to communicate with the rest of them. Nothing has improved in that regard; Durkon needs to be alive to continue taking part in the game.

[B. Dandelion]

1. The Odds: In #1133, Durkon lays out the slim odds of his resurrection going off without a hitch... then seems to imply that this makes his resurrection all-but-inevitable, by Elan's understanding of probability in a narrative. Which means that in the mind of Durkon and the audience, the odds are no longer against him... which means our expectations will likely be subverted. This was the first major red flag.

The comic is clearly setting us up to expect a resurrection, and Durkon is blasé about the odds. We could subvert this, but why? Subversions need to have a point beyond just being the opposite of what's expected. Durkon expressing so much desire to be raised and confidence that it will happen is a heartwarming moment for a character who was initially pleased to hear of his own demise. Flipping that on its head, making moot the optimism he has that he credits to his association with Elan, would be detrimental.


2. The Precedent: Since the Order already underwent an arduous journey to resurrect Roy, it also makes dramatic sense to subvert our desires/expectations this time around and leave Durkon dead.

If you want a contrast to what happened to Roy, surely Durkon being resurrected immediately would do the trick as well as not being resurrected at all.


3. The Situation: The Order currently lies unconscious in the hall. Belkar stands nearly dead over the ashes of Durkon. Hilgya stands next to him, presumably at full hit points, having regained her consciousness. She came here with one mission that we know of: to murder Durkon Thundershield. She won't stand for his resurrection, and Belkar's got an awfully big mouth. The moment he mentions something about rezzing "the real" Durkon, either Hilgya knocks out Belkar and steals the ashes, or she casts a spell like Wind Wall on the ashes, dispersing them. (Come to think of it, besides revealing that Durkon is a "pa," what narrative role has her return served so far?)

I don't really know how Hilgya will react. Her feelings toward Durkon are complicated, and she's a fully Chaotic wild card in general, attached to a god who is equally unpredictable.


4. Durkon's Role: Though this past arc starring Durkon has been absolutely spectacular, Durkon is not the main protagonist of these books; Roy is. What is Durkon’s narrative role? He's the rock: Roy’s stalwart companion, and the party’s spiritual guide. He has now been divinely tasked with a new role (which he’s unwittingly held the whole time): the diplomat. Are these narrative roles that Durkon must be alive to play? No. In fact, he might play them better as a ghost. (Besides, we’ve already seen Redcloak use True Seeing to spot ghosts — most recently with V’s soul splices, I think. Foreshadowing, perhaps?)

You say in #8 that Durkon is "the glue" that holds the party together, which lines up more closely with what the narrative has established. It very much is a role he needs to be alive to fill.

(Redcloak spotting the Soul Splices might be foreshadowing of something, but more likely to do with the IFCC plotline than a hint about ghosts. If the IFCC lied about how commonplace splices are, we might see another instance of them in the future. Alternately maybe Redcloak just knows a fair amount about fiends.)


5. The Impact: We know that this story does not have a happy ending for everyone. Durkon, dead for good? That hurts. That has weight.

Not everyone will get a happy ending, but some outcomes can be ruled out if they would invalidate Elan's personal idea of a happy ending, to paraphrase the book 3 commentary. I think Durkon, one of Elan's closest friends, dying to a vampire and then never being raised (despite their access to his remains) is an ending he'd object to.


6. The Parallel: When the Order of the Scribble traveled 66 years ago, it was the stoic dwarf who sacrificed himself to seal the rifts. It’s a fitting parallel that Durkon’s sacrifice help to accomplish the same goal. It be the Dwarven way.

Durkon's sacrifice was dying saving Belkar and the others. Staying dead now is pointless in relevance to the goal of saving the multiverse.

As far as I can tell, Durkon and Kraagor only have the most superficial traits in common: their race and the fact that they died.


7. The Cliffhanger: What better cliffhanger to end the book on? In the afterlife, Durkon has just discovered the nature of the multiverse and the Order’s true quest... and he cannot return to the Prime.

That might be a reason to postpone the resurrection until the next book.


8. The Stakes: It raises the stakes intensely if the Order needs to face the final encounters of the story without Durkon -- and I doubt they'd keep Hilgya around if she'd prevented them from raising him (if she would even care to stick around). Furthermore, if Elan be the heart and soul of the team, Durkon is the glue. What will happen to them without his balancing presence? A lot of dramatic tension. (Just like what happened to the Order of the Scribble as they grieved Kraagor...)

This entire book has already been about them functioning without Durkon, so him staying dead would be more of the same.

There might be some interesting ways to play out Durkon staying dead, but nothing that really outweighs the compelling reasons to have him come back. He has every personal motive to return, a divine mission to complete that is almost impossible on the face of it already, a team that needs him... all in a heroic fantasy story that is largely optimistic on the whole.

[Takver]

2. The Precedent: Since the Order already underwent an arduous journey to resurrect Roy, it also makes dramatic sense to subvert our desires/expectations this time around and leave Durkon dead.

6. The Parallel: When the Order of the Scribble traveled 66 years ago, it was the stoic dwarf who sacrificed himself to seal the rifts. It’s a fitting parallel that Durkon’s sacrifice help to accomplish the same goal. It be the Dwarven way.


These two are contradictory. #2 says Durkon won't be resurrected because the story needs to be different from how it happened before. #6 says Durkon won't be resurrected because the story should be the same as how it happened before.

I think you can make up any number of reasons why Durkon staying dead "makes sense" but for each one of those a different reason can be made up that supports the opposite conclusion.

For me, he's obviously (OBVIOUSLY) going to be resurrected. "What we need is Durkon (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1098.html)," remember? Also, he wants to go back (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1134.html) and Thor wants to send him back. Now I don't claim to know exactly how it will happen, and I admit there are unresolved questions, but that's not important to figure out ahead of time. People worry a lot about the "how" but things like this always serve the needs of the story, especially how Rich writes it.

Bottom line. The Order needs Durkon, the world needs Durkon, the comic needs Durkon. He's coming back.

[B. Dandelion]

Bottom line. The Order needs Durkon, the world needs Durkon, the comic needs Durkon. He's coming back.

Nicely put.

[Takver]

Thanks, I liked your post, too.

[factotum]

I agree with the general opinion here--Durkon not being rezzed would completely negate the purpose of the past several strips, so that just ain't gonna fly from a narrative viewpoint.

[RatElemental]

Even if Durkon doesn't get resurrected, he's being given a mission by his god, who took the time to explain things he needed to know for it and handed it to him personally. This occurred after he sacrificed his life not once, but twice to save others. That screams risen martyr material to me.

[mjasghar]

Whilst we may see Hilgya being forced by Loki to resurrect him (Thor seems to be heading somewhere in the astral, maybe Loki’s domain?) even that isn’t necessary
Thor can flat out miracle resurrect him with no need for material components etc

[Ruck]

Thor can flat out miracle resurrect him with no need for material components etc

Is that so?

[RatElemental]

Is that so?

It depends on whether Rich wants his gods to be able to or not, but there is RAW backing for this kind of thing.

Alter Reality

Prerequisite: Cha 29.

Benefit:

This ability is similar to the wish spell. The deity merely thinks of something and then makes it so. Doing this requires at least a standard action.

Notes:

The deity can duplicate any spell of 9th level or lower as a standard action. The duplicated spell has no material or XP component, and the DC of its saving throw (if one is allowed) is 20 + the deity’s rank + the deity’s Charisma modifier.

The deity also can duplicate a spell with any metamagic feat (so long as the metamagic feat is available to characters of 20th level or lower). This use of the ability requires the deity to rest for 1 round for each level that the feat would normally add to the spell. It still takes a standard action to use this ability, so there is no point in using the ability to duplicate a quickened spell.

The deity can render a magical or supernatural effect permanent. The rest requirement varies with the effect: 10 minutes per level of the effect times the number of subjects affected, 10 minutes per total Hit Dice of creatures affected, or 10 minutes per 10-foot cube affected. Use the highest applicable value.

The deity can create temporary, nonmagical objects. This works like the Create Object ability (including the required rest period), except that the items last one day per rank.

The deity also can create permanent nonmagical objects as if using the Create Object ability except that all rest requirements are doubled and there is no reduction in rest time for being on an Outer Plane or in the deity’s own realm.

The deity can create temporary magic items or creatures. This works like the Divine Creation ability (including the required rest period), except that the items or creatures created last 1 hour per rank. This ability cannot create permanent magic items or creatures.

The deity can reshape a landscape, creating any type of terrain the deity can imagine. Each 10-foot cube of material to be reshaped requires 1 round of effort, and the deity must rest for one day per 10-foot cube shaped after the work is completed.

Suggested Portfolio Elements: Any.

IE, if Thor had this ability, he could true res Durkon right here and now then plane shift him back to the material plane with perfect accuracy if he wanted to. It would take him about ten seconds to do so.

[The Pilgrim]

1. The Odds: In #1133, Durkon lays out the slim odds of his resurrection going off without a hitch... then seems to imply that this makes his resurrection all-but-inevitable, by Elan's understanding of probability in a narrative. Which means that in the mind of Durkon and the audience, the odds are no longer against him... which means our expectations will likely be subverted. This was the first major red flag.


The Giant is an expert on making his readers expect a subversion, then play the topics straight.



2. The Precedent: Since the Order already underwent an arduous journey to resurrect Roy, it also makes dramatic sense to subvert our desires/expectations this time around and leave Durkon dead.

Or just go the easy way and resurrect Durkon right away. He has been already dead for five years. Enough is enough.


3. The Situation: The Order currently lies unconscious in the hall. Belkar stands nearly dead over the ashes of Durkon. Hilgya stands next to him, presumably at full hit points, having regained her consciousness. She came here with one mission that we know of: to murder Durkon Thundershield. She won't stand for his resurrection, and Belkar's got an awfully big mouth. The moment he mentions something about rezzing "the real" Durkon, either Hilgya knocks out Belkar and steals the ashes, or she casts a spell like Wind Wall on the ashes, dispersing them. (Come to think of it, besides revealing that Durkon is a "pa," what narrative role has her return served so far?)

I think that "revealing that Durkon is a pa" is more than enough narrative role for her. Specially if she thereafter is used as the device to rez Durkon.

If Thor's story is to be believed, Loki is into the plan. If Hylgia attempts to destroy the ashes with a spell, it will frizzle as Loki denies it. Then he will tell her to just rez Durkon and be done with it. And Hylgia will comply as her whole plan to dodge Hel is to die honorably on the grounds of having done her God's will.



4. Durkon's Role: Though this past arc starring Durkon has been absolutely spectacular, Durkon is not the main protagonist of these books; Roy is. What is Durkon’s narrative role? He's the rock: Roy’s stalwart companion, and the party’s spiritual guide. He has now been divinely tasked with a new role (which he’s unwittingly held the whole time): the diplomat. Are these narrative roles that Durkon must be alive to play? No. In fact, he might play them better as a ghost. (Besides, we’ve already seen Redcloak use True Seeing to spot ghosts — most recently with V’s soul splices, I think. Foreshadowing, perhaps?)

Roy is not the protagonist. The whole Order is. Comic is called The Order of the Stick, not Roy Greenhilt and Followers.

Regarding the Ghost theory...
1. We have seen via Eugene that ghosts have pretty hard restrictions in order to manifest.

2. Durkon willing to get resurrected and thus assuming the risk of going to Hel is an heroic act. Returning as a ghost wouldn't put himself at risk. So, no, there is no narrative benefit to allow him the easy, risk-free way.

3. Thor specifically waited for Durkon to say he was willing to be rezzed, before showing up. He wouldn't have had to do it if he could just told him to go down and do the job as a Ghost.



5. The Impact: We know that this story does not have a happy ending for everyone. Durkon, dead for good? That hurts. That has weight.


We know this story will have a happy ending for Elan. We do not know if the rest will have a happy ending or not. Xykon not having a happy ending already fulfills the Oracle's "at least, for you" clause.



6. The Parallel: When the Order of the Scribble traveled 66 years ago, it was the stoic dwarf who sacrificed himself to seal the rifts. It’s a fitting parallel that Durkon’s sacrifice help to accomplish the same goal. It be the Dwarven way.

All the more reason for the Giant to go the opposite way. The Order of the Stick is nor a parallel of the Scribblers. On the contrary, the Scribblers incubated more and more mistrust and inner conflict until a fight broke out and they had to split. The Stickers on the contrary have been learning for the whole comic to stick together stickier.



7. The Cliffhanger: What better cliffhanger to end the book on? In the afterlife, Durkon has just discovered the nature of the multiverse and the Order’s true quest... and he cannot return to the Prime.

I have a better clifhanger: The book ends with a screen-out to Team Evil finding the Last Gate.

I guess the Giant will have even better cliffhangers in mind.



8. The Stakes: It raises the stakes intensely if the Order needs to face the final encounters of the story without Durkon -- and I doubt they'd keep Hilgya around if she'd prevented them from raising him (if she would even care to stick around). Furthermore, if Elan be the heart and soul of the team, Durkon is the glue. What will happen to them without his balancing presence? A lot of dramatic tension. (Just like what happened to the Order of the Scribble as they grieved Kraagor...)

As you have said, Durkon is the glue of the team. He has a role to fulfill on that regard.



9. The Hidden Opportunity: We have seen Durkon befriend evil clerics more than once. (Malack, likely Hilgya.) How did he do this? One-on-one. When will the Order’s quest afford Durkon opportunities to sit down and have tea with Redcloak? Probably never; one shot at most. Guess what Durkon can do as a ghost? Go talk to Redcloak right now, quite possibly more than once. Haunt that goblin! (Imagine how wonderfully strange these scenes would be.)

Durkon as a Ghost can... get into Valhalla, and be done with it. If he could do the job as a Ghost, Thor would have told him to go that way isntead of getting rezzed and risking eternal damnation to Hel.



10. The Obi-Wan: A wise man struck down really ought to become more powerful than you could possibly imagine, don’t you think?

Obi-Wan was an Old Mentor Figure. It was his role to die. Durkon is a Protagonist. His role is to save the day.

[factotum]

Thor can flat out miracle resurrect him with no need for material components etc

I am 100% certain that doing this would be totally Against The Rules. Everything we've seen says that the Gods have to work through their clerics--heck, when they call a meeting, rather than just piling in to some quiet corner of the Astral Plane to have a chinwag, they have a temple built on a mountain and then have their high priests Summon Proxy. While Thor is clearly willing to bend the occasional rule, he is totally not going to risk another Snarl by outright ignoring the accords and bringing Durkon back to life without being asked to by a mortal.

[Synesthesy]

I still think that:

Durkon will be rezzed right now, before the end of the book, and he'll have his chance to speak to Hilgya. What they'll say eachother is something I can't guess...

No member of the Order will perma-die. **** the oracle

The cliffhanger will be team evil finding the Gate, preparing to make the ritual.

[martianmister]

No member of the Order will perma-die.

Except Belkar.Don't **** with the Oracle.

[D.One]

Short answer? YES

Long answer? Yes, I think so.

[Ruck]

It depends on whether Rich wants his gods to be able to or not, but there is RAW backing for this kind of thing.

Alter Reality

Prerequisite: Cha 29.

Benefit:

This ability is similar to the wish spell. The deity merely thinks of something and then makes it so. Doing this requires at least a standard action.

Notes:

The deity can duplicate any spell of 9th level or lower as a standard action. The duplicated spell has no material or XP component, and the DC of its saving throw (if one is allowed) is 20 + the deity’s rank + the deity’s Charisma modifier.

The deity also can duplicate a spell with any metamagic feat (so long as the metamagic feat is available to characters of 20th level or lower). This use of the ability requires the deity to rest for 1 round for each level that the feat would normally add to the spell. It still takes a standard action to use this ability, so there is no point in using the ability to duplicate a quickened spell.

The deity can render a magical or supernatural effect permanent. The rest requirement varies with the effect: 10 minutes per level of the effect times the number of subjects affected, 10 minutes per total Hit Dice of creatures affected, or 10 minutes per 10-foot cube affected. Use the highest applicable value.

The deity can create temporary, nonmagical objects. This works like the Create Object ability (including the required rest period), except that the items last one day per rank.

The deity also can create permanent nonmagical objects as if using the Create Object ability except that all rest requirements are doubled and there is no reduction in rest time for being on an Outer Plane or in the deity’s own realm.

The deity can create temporary magic items or creatures. This works like the Divine Creation ability (including the required rest period), except that the items or creatures created last 1 hour per rank. This ability cannot create permanent magic items or creatures.

The deity can reshape a landscape, creating any type of terrain the deity can imagine. Each 10-foot cube of material to be reshaped requires 1 round of effort, and the deity must rest for one day per 10-foot cube shaped after the work is completed.

Suggested Portfolio Elements: Any.

IE, if Thor had this ability, he could true res Durkon right here and now then plane shift him back to the material plane with perfect accuracy if he wanted to. It would take him about ten seconds to do so.

Ah, thanks. I am heavily skeptical it can happen in OOTS-world, due to what Rich has said about narrative-breaking resurrections and also that one reason he might have set up the arrangements between the gods is to prevent something like this from being possible. But now I know it technically is possible by the rules.

[hamishspence]

Ah, thanks. I am heavily skeptical it can happen in OOTS-world, due to what Rich has said about narrative-breaking resurrections and also that one reason he might have set up the arrangements between the gods is to prevent something like this from being possible. But now I know it technically is possible by the rules.

Interestingly, in Deities & Demigods, not very many gods actually have the Alter Reality power. Thor was among the ones that didn't (his Charisma was a little too low).

[bfl]

Whilst we may see Hilgya being forced by Loki to resurrect him (Thor seems to be heading somewhere in the astral, maybe Loki’s domain?) even that isn’t necessary
Thor can flat out miracle resurrect him with no need for material components etc

I've already predicted in another thread that the material components for Durkon's rez will be provided by the Order of the Dinner Party. I suspect that it will be the high priest of Thor rather than Hilgya who performs the rez, as Hilgya has no motivation to do so, but could go either way.

[Linneris]

Whether or not it's possible by RAW, I don't think that Thor just ressing Durkon on his own is something Rich would do. It would scream of a deus ex machina, give gods too much agency at the expense of mortals, and mess with the audience's established expectations that gods only act through their portfolio within the natural world, with the specific exception of clerical magic.

[Mordaedil]

Interestingly, in Deities & Demigods, not very many gods actually have the Alter Reality power. Thor was among the ones that didn't (his Charisma was a little too low).

Worth noting that while that is true, Thor from OOTS is not based on that specific statblock, nor the mythological Thor, but as the title of the most recent comic alludes to, the Marvel Super Hero Thor. Whom may or may not have the ability to Alter Reality. But it is also worth noting that Thor doesn't even need Alter Reality to do this. Gift of Life works like true resurrection without the need for material components and the amount of time the subject has been dead is irrelevant. Life and Death requires only Divine Rank 6 and Gift of Life, but would allow a deity to designate any mortal and either snuff out their life or restore it to life. Following that is Mass Life and Death and so on.

Basically, possessing Gift of Life seems like something any good deity ought to have.

[D.One]

Hel Yes! I can't believe nobody made this pun yet...

[hamishspence]

Basically, possessing Gift of Life seems like something any good deity ought to have.

Maybe - but it's not as common as all that. I think it tends to be reserved for deities with a noticeable focus on Life as part of their portfolio.

I noted a few threads back that Deities & Demigods Thor, at least, doesn't have it.


Deities & Demigods Thor, at least, is a Ranger/Barbarian - who doesn't have Gift of Life or any salient divine abilities in that tree. Nor does he have Alter Reality, which can duplicate any 9th level spell.

Odin, on the other hand, has the Life & Death ability, which is like a beefier Gift of Life (works across planar boundaries). And the Alter Reality ability.

It is possible (maybe even likely) that OOTS deities have different stats from Deities & Demigods ones.

[Peelee]

3. The Situation: The Order currently lies unconscious in the hall. Belkar stands nearly dead over the ashes of Durkon. Hilgya stands next to him, presumably at full hit points, having regained her consciousness. She came here with one mission that we know of: to murder Durkon Thundershield. She won't stand for his resurrection,
א. The Subversion: Hilgya did not get to murder Durkon. She clearly needs to rez him in order to kill him. He got killed =/= she got to kill him. Which, as you conveniently point out, is what she wants. Infinite bonus points to whoever got that joke, btw.

Worth noting that while that is true, Thor from OOTS is not based on that specific statblock, nor the mythological Thor, but as the title of the most recent comic alludes to, the Marvel Super Hero Thor. Whom may or may not have the ability to Alter Reality. But it is also worth noting that Thor doesn't even need Alter Reality to do this. Gift of Life works like true resurrection without the need for material components and the amount of time the subject has been dead is irrelevant. Life and Death requires only Divine Rank 6 and Gift of Life, but would allow a deity to designate any mortal and either snuff out their life or restore it to life. Following that is Mass Life and Death and so on.

Basically, possessing Gift of Life seems like something any good deity ought to have.

So your theory is that a specific and obscure rule will be put into play, but also with a specific and obscure exception to said rule?

[Grey Watcher]

I say yes.

The out of character reason being that it would be weird to have all this development and exploration of Durkon's backstory and to have Thor giving him Important Plot ExpositionTM and then just usher him offstage.

In character, unlike Roy's case, here they've specifically prepared to Resurrect Durkon. They've been keeping some cash in reserve for it (they discussed the possibility of having to dip into those funds, but I don't think they ever actually did). And they're in the center of worship for Thor, so a nearby friendly 13th level Cleric is entirely plausible.

To me, the biggest stumbling block is Helgya's presence. She wants him dead, so it'll be a hard sell to get her to, say, go away without guaranteeing that Durkon stays dead.

[mjasghar]

1)Loki can order her which he will since he wants to preserve the world and bring the dark one in
2)her child is too young to be dedicated to a god so would end up with Hel if she messes up the Order’s quest

[Kish]

Thor can flat out miracle resurrect him with no need for material components etc
If Thor could resurrect whoever he wanted, why would any dwarf who died dishonored stay dead?

[Peelee]

If Thor could resurrect whoever he wanted, why would any dwarf who died dishonored stay dead?

Down that path lies a madness of special circumstances and exceptions.

[oonker]

Down that path lies a madness of special circumstances and exceptions.

And the first one would be "well, of course he can't ressurect the dishonored dead because they are in Hel's domain, now!"

bold to emphasize that I agree it is madness.

[Dion]

If the question is: “Can Thor plane shift his corporeal self directly onto the prime material plane and cast resurrection on Durkon”, the answer is: ”that appears to be a thing that is not technically forbidden by the core rulebooks.”

If the question is “Will Thor do that”, the answer is: “That sounds like bad storytelling, so I doubt it will happen in this story.”

[D.One]

If the question is: “Can Thor plane shift his corporeal self directly onto the prime material plane and cast resurrection on Durkon”, the answer is: ”that appears to be a thing that is not technically forbidden by the core rulebooks.”

If the question is “Will Thor do that”, the answer is: “That sounds like bad storytelling, so I doubt it will happen in this story.”

I'd say "bad storytelling" isn't the only thing preventing Thor to rezz Durkon ASAP. Remember, the gods have all sort of rules regarding their direct interference in the mortal world. Maybe doing such a thing could incite a chain reaction of interferences that none of them would desire, like this one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0954.html).

[Mordaedil]

So your theory is that a specific and obscure rule will be put into play, but also with a specific and obscure exception to said rule?
Not really my theory, no, I kind of agree with the others saying it's maybe a case of bad storytelling.

But what obscure rule are you referring to, by the way? Because these rules are all on the SRD. http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineAbilitiesFeats.html

Obscure isn't anything I consider that I can look up on a legal online available resource.

[Zholvar]

I say yes.

The out of character reason being that it would be weird to have all this development and exploration of Durkon's backstory and to have Thor giving him Important Plot ExpositionTM and then just usher him offstage.

In character, unlike Roy's case, here they've specifically prepared to Resurrect Durkon. They've been keeping some cash in reserve for it (they discussed the possibility of having to dip into those funds, but I don't think they ever actually did). And they're in the center of worship for Thor, so a nearby friendly 13th level Cleric is entirely plausible.

To me, the biggest stumbling block is Helgya's presence. She wants him dead, so it'll be a hard sell to get her to, say, go away without guaranteeing that Durkon stays dead.

Yeah mostly this, only doubt about 13th level cleric of Thor available. It seems that there are very few PC above 10th level so Hyglia is the most likely choice in terms of power. Storywise it would make sense that she and Durkon "talk things out". If she really wants him to be dead forever is doubtfull, remember she wanted to make a "dramatic entrance".

[Dion]

Twenty strips ago, I was fairly certain Durkon was going to die permenantly, and the book would end with his funeral, and being interred in his ancestral tomb.

It also seemed logical that Hilgya would drop Kudzu off with Sigdi and join the order.

Now, I am convinced that Durkon is coming back, primarily for Kudzu.

Of course, Minrah might be in the strip right now because Durkon isn’t coming back, and Minrah is going to tell the Order the new plan. But that feels unlikely to me.

[Peelee]

It also seemed logical that Hilgya would drop Kudzu off with Sigdi and join the order.

.... What part of anything Hilgya has done in all her screen time has ever screamed "logical" to you?

[Jasdoif]

.... What part of anything Hilgya has done in all her screen time has ever screamed "logical" to you?Are we counting all the times the inhalation in front of the scream sounded ill?

[Dion]

.... What part of anything Hilgya has done in all her screen time has ever screamed "logical" to you?

Well, it seemed logical from a story perspective that Hilgya would join the order.

However, from that perspective I have to admit that it also seems logical that she’d bring Kudzu with, because bringing a baby into battles is funny, and Xykon would get a kick out of it.

Also, as I’ve said many times, bringing Kudzu with would give MiTD a chance to not eat a baby, which is a thing I’m sure we all want to see.

[Fyraltari]

Well, it seemed logical from a story perspective that Hilgya would join the order.

However, from that perspective I have to admit that it also seems logical that she’d bring Kudzu with, because bringing a baby into battles is funny, and Xykon would get a kick out of it.

Also, as I’ve said many times, bringing Kudzu with would give MiTD a chance to not eat a baby, which is a thing I’m sure we all want to see.

You're thinking of "illogical".

[Kish]

It seems logical from a story perspective that the Order, which has been six members for six books now, will acquire a seventh member for the final book of the series, who duplicates the class of one of the existing members?

This is some strange new definition of "logical" with which I was not previously familiar.

If you want to see the creature in the darkness not eat a baby, just look at any panel he's in. He's doing it constantly! Such an obsessive not-baby-eater, he is.