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Yora
2018-10-24, 06:15 AM
I am working on a campaign in which the entire world is covered in a forest that grows back faster than land can be cleared and what little civilization exists consists of small strongholds scattered throughout the wilderness. It's a fantasy world where supernatural forces are at work, but I think that doesn't make much of a difference and you could just as well have that in a cosmic horror or modern post-apocalypse setting. The key idea is that the forces of nature are indifferent to what happens to humans and simply do their things while people are getting underfoot. In a past campaign I had tried to approach this general idea as a survivial game with supply management and wilderness navigation, but that turned out not much fun. Instead I moved on to focus more on encounters and scenes, where the players run into a creature or phenomenon and have to deal with it.

However, I don't have a lot of ideas to work with yet, and I am always looking for more. Nature themed creatures are always cool, but I am particularly looking into strange and dangerous plants and fungi, or even bacteria if you have any cool ideas there.

My intention is to make it feel that being in the forest is very dangerous, and not just because of predatory beasts that eat people. Plants and plant spirits are ruling the world, and humans are just little critters crawling between their roots.

One idea that I find very evocative is very unpredictable and extreme weather. Storms that come out of nowhere, blizards with massive snowfall, rapid floods, and really heavy fog. Not necessarily life threatening to PCs in themselves, but setting the stage for intense encounters with beasts that come out to hunt during such events.

Eldan
2018-10-24, 06:31 AM
Have you seen Nausicäa of the valley of the wind, or preferably read the manga? I'd say that's the classical go-to for dangerous plants, fungi and insects in a post-apocalypse setting.

Yora
2018-10-24, 06:34 AM
No, but I'm a huge fan of Princess Mononoke. One of the primary inspirations for the campaign. Planned on watching it some day for a good while now.

Seto
2018-10-24, 06:37 AM
Have you seen the Miyazaki movies? The first thing that sprang to mind when reading this is: so basically, it's a reverse Princess Mononoke where Princess Eboshi is the conquered instead of the conqueror. I know that movie mostly has giant animals, but it casts them as spirits, which is interesting. Plus the Deer-God is the force driving the forest made manifest, and for atmosphere the little white fey-like spirits are pretty cool.

Whereas Mononoke provides some Fey and Animal inspiration, Nausicaa goes the Vermin and Plant route: it's about the expansion of a toxic forest in a post-apocalyptic setting, basically. It is filled with alien bugs and expands via invasive spores, sort of like a disease. Whenever someone or something comes back from the forest, or if simply the wind blows too strongly, it risks bringing spores that spread insanely fast, and then boom! The next morning, you wake up among "infected" trees.
If you want the players to fight the spread of the forest, the board game Pandemic could provide some cool mechanical inspiration.

Edit: oh well, double-ninjaed :P

Eldan
2018-10-24, 06:39 AM
No, but I'm a huge fan of Princess Mononoke. One of the primary inspirations for the campaign. Planned on watching it some day for a good while now.

It's probably worth it to find the Manga, too. The movie just kinda stops halfway in without finishing the story. It is my favourite Miyazaki movie, though.

Yora
2018-10-24, 07:09 AM
We're all on the same page, that's good. :smallbiggrin:

I was quite impressed by the mutants in the Metro 2033 game. They actually behave like animals in most situations and don't all immediately beeline to you and bit until they are dead.

There's big rodents that silently dart out of their holes while you're not looking to bite you in the legs and immediately run away when they get hit.

There's wof-hyena things that often sit on heaps of rubble as sentries that will call the whole pack to them when they spot you. You frequently encounter packs running through open spaces and when they have been spooked by larger predators they will just run right past you.

And big gorilla mutants that try to intimmidate you but won't attack while you're looking at them.

And then there's giant spiders that can't stand exposure to bright light.

Hard to do these things in something like D&D, but I think in Fate or Apocalypse World it should work reasonably well. I think the general idea is beasts that threaten to attack you but won't do so until specific circumstances are met. And they have to be dangerous enough so that you really don't want to fight them. Being safe while looking at a creature seems easy enough, but what if you want to climb a ladder or clear the rubble blocking a door? Then you have to start thinking of alternative approaches. There's a lot of exciting play with trying out methods to distract or chase them away without making them attack. Or you could simply wait for them to move on while you're already under some time restriction.

But I think the basic concept of "monster that won't attack until you set it off" should work in any game.

Khedrac
2018-10-24, 07:36 AM
I would suggest reading Midworld by Alan Dean Foster (at which point I would also feel very sorry for your players).

Something I caught recently on a TV documentary - trees (and other plants) communicate via the fungi in the soil, so if a tree starts getting attacked in one particular way, the other trees will start to enact defences against that attack (release certain chemicals, close flowers or leaves etc.).

Eldan
2018-10-24, 08:26 AM
Oooh, seconding Midworld. It's really good, too. Also, while not often officially named, clearly a major inspiration for Cameron's Avatar, except actually good?

VoxRationis
2018-10-24, 09:26 AM
I haven't read Midworld, but I did read the Flinx book where Foster revisited that planet. Yeah, that would be a steep learning curve for your players.

You're probably aware of this, but keep in mind such fungi as Cordyceps. In real life, such horrors only affect insect life, but it's not implausible that they could affect mammals.

The book Uprooted, by Naomi Novik, focuses on a very malevolent spirit controlling the forest nearby which the main character lives. Its magical influence spreads easily, and like a disease, and there are few, if any, ways to fight it save to kill the infected and burn the bodies. The spirit, though sometimes regarded as an unthinking force of nature, actually despises humans and comes up with very long-running, carefully crafted plans to kill humans and destroy their works, so it is trying to bring about a green apocalypse.

Yora
2018-10-24, 09:28 AM
Chestnuts poison the topsoil above their roots, preventing anything from growing there.

And eucalyptus secrets a mist of flamable oil to cover the gras and shrubs around their trunks to make them easier to ignite. Short shrub fires don't do any real damage to tree trunks or green canopies.

There's probably a couple of fun things you can do with plants that are dangerous to just get close to. The sap of giant hogweed undergoes a chemical reaction when exposed to sunlight that can cause severe burns just by touching it. And then there's henbane that is so toxic that just breathing the air next to it can make people faint.

Another plant that I find really interesting is blackberries, and brambles in general. These things are like flexible barbed wire. The vines aren't that tough, but cutting a path through a big patch would take hours, possibly even days. It makes for very efficient barriers.

VoxRationis
2018-10-24, 09:34 AM
Chestnuts poison the topsoil above their roots, preventing anything from growing there.

And eucalyptus secrets a mist of flamable oil to cover the gras and shrubs around their trunks to make them easier to ignite. Short shrub fires don't do any real damage to tree trunks or green canopies.

There's probably a couple of fun things you can do with plants that are dangerous to just get close to. The sap of giant hogweed undergoes a chemical reaction when exposed to sunlight that can cause severe burns just by touching it. And then there's henbane that is so toxic that just breathing the air next to it can make people faint.

Another plant that I find really interesting is blackberries, and brambles in general. These things are like flexible barbed wire. The vines aren't that tough, but cutting a path through a big patch would take hours, possibly even days. It makes for very efficient barriers.

No kidding. I grew up in Oregon. Blackberries are vicious. It is fortunate that they do not have any of the other defenses plants can have, since the main way to clear them out is to come at them with a heavy tool, and that usually leaves the clearer covered in scratches.

Yora
2018-10-24, 09:52 AM
Thinking of poisonous plants I was reminded of algae. Red and blue algea often produce pretty nasty toxins. Real ones require you to either drink it or to eat contaminated fish to cause serious harm to humans. But its perfectly feasible to imagine algea that can harm you just by falling into the water. Which makes using bridges and boats way more exciting. :smallamused:
And algae blooms can cover massive amounts of water, which can look very visibily intimidating.

At work we have a small pond for runoff water from the roses we grow. The concentration of fertilizer in that thing is probably way off the scale and in summer you don't just get a green color but a pretty substential layer of green goo floating on the top. Rowing a boat through that stuff probably wouldn't make a lot of players feel very happy.
Not pictured: Land. (http://www.asergeev.com/pictures/archives/2015/1575/jpeg/14.jpg)

Eldan
2018-10-24, 09:59 AM
No kidding. I grew up in Oregon. Blackberries are vicious. It is fortunate that they do not have any of the other defenses plants can have, since the main way to clear them out is to come at them with a heavy tool, and that usually leaves the clearer covered in scratches.

Yeah. I did that as a summer job. Leather gloves to the elbows, rubber boots, heavy jackets, pruning shears and mattocks. And the thorns would still go through leather gloves ever so often.

Edit: allelopathy/allotoxicty is quite common. For other trees that do it: Eucalyptus (the leaf litter, not just the oil) black walnut. Also, cultivated rice. The invasive Garlic Mustard is interesting too, it poisons mycorrhizal fungi (fungi which grow with or even into plant roots), which most plants need to live.

Eldan
2018-10-24, 10:06 AM
Oh, and algal blooms can get more extreme than that. THis is Lake Erie from orbit in 2013:
https://earth.esa.int/documents/257246/1043827/LEAB_ENV_12042003_L.jpg

Or up close:
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/467382e6b2fa79fe31b6f407f4fd70a2887ab7f6/c=0-105-2000-1235/local/-/media/2017/06/16/DetroitFreeP/DetroitFreePress/636332231406081610-DFP-LAKE-ERIE-ALGAE-1-.JPG?width=3200&height=1680&fit=crop

Khedrac
2018-10-24, 03:08 PM
You're probably aware of this, but keep in mind such fungi as Cordyceps. In real life, such horrors only affect insect life, but it's not implausible that they could affect mammals.
In D&D it's called a Yellow Musk Creeper.

LibraryOgre
2018-10-24, 03:59 PM
You might also look at Shadowrun, and things to do with Amazonia. (http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Amazonia)

stack
2018-10-24, 04:14 PM
The 3pp pathfinder Skybourne campaign setting is set after a green apocalypse. Woodfaring adventures (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/252347) would be the most relevant book.

Basicslly, everyone who could took off to flying or floating cities or live in extreme environments (desert, ice, high mountains).

Mechalich
2018-10-24, 07:15 PM
I am working on a campaign in which the entire world is covered in a forest that grows back faster than land can be cleared

The trick here is that land can be cleared by fire which tends to render most defenses the forest has irrelevant, especially if you're willing to burn multiple times in succession - you can clear the freaking Amazon that way (takes about 4 sustained burns). Doing so if not necessarily going to leave any fertile land behind and may in fact produce a wasteland, but if the forest is super dangerous, surrounding your settlement with a burned-out wasteland is almost certainly preferable.

As a result, for this to work you need some means of fire suppression. Possibly this can be simply having your world being extremely wet - there are places on Earth where it rains all the time (https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2014/08/meghalaya-the-wettest-place-on-earth/100797/) - but then you have rain world and not forest world. So you're probably looking at a supernatural means of fire suppression. One method might be to have gaseous organisms or spirits that normally live in the atmosphere but can descend lower at need. If they have bodies composed of inert gases they can choke out fires.

Yora
2018-10-24, 11:51 PM
Magic. It's a fantasy world.

Eldan
2018-10-25, 02:32 AM
That link provides some extremely great pictures, though. I mean, those bridges. And those rain hats. Gorgeous.

gkathellar
2018-10-25, 07:51 AM
Have you seen Nausicäa of the valley of the wind, or preferably read the manga? I'd say that's the classical go-to for dangerous plants, fungi and insects in a post-apocalypse setting.

Emphasis mine. I'll second this - while the film just sort of vaguely deals with "war is bad" and "plants are cool," the manga presents a forest hostile to most life as a complete ecosystem and uses it to articulate a lengthy meditation on what makes life valuable, and how one form of life can be evaluated relative to another. It also has the best telepathic duels I've ever seen in fiction.

The funny thing is that Miyazaki started writing the comic so that he could do the movie, back before he had the credibility to do whatever he wanted, but it ended up vastly outgrowing the film.

Yora
2018-10-25, 09:36 AM
there are places on Earth where it rains all the time (https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2014/08/meghalaya-the-wettest-place-on-earth/100797/)

There's also the place that has lightning all the time (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catatumbo_lightning).

And there's a mountain in central Germany (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brocken) that is only a thousand meters high but still has snow for eight or nine months of the year, with 300 days of fog. And it sits next to a plain where the next mountain to the east is in the Urals on the border to Asia. It's no wonder that in German folklore it's the place where the Devil hosts an international Witch convention on All Hallow's Eve.

Though as freakish weather goes, Mount Washington (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Washington_(New_Hampshire)) in New Hampshire seems to be even worse.

Places with permanent supernatural weather always strike me as really evocative. Not really plant based, but a really cruel and unforgiving form of nature.

Aneurin
2018-10-25, 10:30 AM
You might want to take a look at Hothouse by Brian Aldiss. It's not exactly what you're after - it's so far in the future of the Earth that humans are unrecognizable as such, the Earth is tidelocked so one hemisphere is eternal day and the other eternal night - but it's very much a plants-now-rule-the-world deal, and it's got some interesting ideas about relationships between plants and humans, particularly symbiotic ones (positive and negative).

It's a bit odd in places but some of the ideas are really fun - the Earth and moon being connected by the webs of giant space-faring spider-like plants falling neatly into both 'odd' and 'awesome'.

AceOfFools
2018-10-25, 12:10 PM
My first thought about reading this was: "That's a lot of food for plant-eating creatures."

You could have locus swarms picking areas dry every couple of days. Which means locus eating animals would have plenty to eat, and so on, until the absurd density of predators used in adventure games actually makes sense.

Incredibly dense fawna everywhere making maintaining agriculturally useful crops a serious and sustained challenge.

It also means there could be tremendous "waste" production, resulting in usually fast soil growth, more quickly burying settlements unable to do continuous maintenance, and further punishing long-term structure building.

...is that how soil production works?

gkathellar
2018-10-25, 12:28 PM
My first thought about reading this was: "That's a lot of food for plant-eating creatures."

You could have locus swarms picking areas dry every couple of days. Which means locus eating animals would have plenty to eat, and so on, until the absurd density of predators used in adventure games actually makes sense.

Incredibly dense fawna everywhere making maintaining agriculturally useful crops a serious and sustained challenge.

It also means there could be tremendous "waste" production, resulting in usually fast soil growth, more quickly burying settlements unable to do continuous maintenance, and further punishing long-term structure building.

...is that how soil production works?

Somewhat. A Mayan ruin tour guide explained to me that “buried in the jungle” doesn’t just mean, “covered in plants.” It means that when those plants die, they turn into dirt, and then more plants grow in that dirt, and soon the structure is buried much more literally. The denser the ecosystem, the faster it’ll bury stuff.

Yora
2018-10-25, 12:45 PM
I had not considered that. And I am actually learning about soil cycles professionally and plan to study that stuff next year. Dead wood is mostly carbon and nitrogen, which both come from the air, while nutrients get passed down from dead rotting plants to new growing plants. In theory, as long as there's carbon in the air, the sun keeps shining, and rain keeps falling, the cycle can continue forever. In practice it doesn't because of errosion, but in specific places with favorable conditions, whole buildings getting burried sounds completely reasonable.

Soil buildup, especially in a supernaturally fast growing forest, is a great way to create dungeons. Something build from big stone blocks should remain pretty stable even when burried and with lots of soil on the roofs. And if a roof collapses, you get trees growing inside buildings pretty soon as well.

LibraryOgre
2018-10-25, 01:09 PM
My first thought about reading this was: "That's a lot of food for plant-eating creatures."

You could have locus swarms picking areas dry every couple of days. Which means locus eating animals would have plenty to eat, and so on, until the absurd density of predators used in adventure games actually makes sense.

Incredibly dense fawna everywhere making maintaining agriculturally useful crops a serious and sustained challenge.

It also means there could be tremendous "waste" production, resulting in usually fast soil growth, more quickly burying settlements unable to do continuous maintenance, and further punishing long-term structure building.

...is that how soil production works?

I have to say, I really like the "swarms of locusts that briefly denude an area". Depending on the magic system involved, you might even have people taking advantage of this... summoning swarms of locusts to hold the jungle at bay for a while, or summoning flocks of birds to consume the locusts.

Mr Beer
2018-10-25, 05:42 PM
Deathworld I by Harry Harrison is mainly set on a planet whose biosphere is trying to rid itself of those irritating humans. It's not exactly what you are talking about but there are numerous well described nasty animal, plant and fungal attacks. I would definitely rip this off.

Also, being Harry Harrison, it's an easy and entertaining read.

You can pick up a copy from Project Gutenberg.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathworld

http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/28346

Erloas
2018-10-25, 08:17 PM
Chestnuts poison the topsoil above their roots, preventing anything from growing there.

And eucalyptus secrets a mist of flamable oil to cover the gras and shrubs around their trunks to make them easier to ignite. Short shrub fires don't do any real damage to tree trunks or green canopies.

There's probably a couple of fun things you can do with plants that are dangerous to just get close to. The sap of giant hogweed undergoes a chemical reaction when exposed to sunlight that can cause severe burns just by touching it. And then there's henbane that is so toxic that just breathing the air next to it can make people faint.

Another plant that I find really interesting is blackberries, and brambles in general. These things are like flexible barbed wire. The vines aren't that tough, but cutting a path through a big patch would take hours, possibly even days. It makes for very efficient barriers.

Fungi, and their spores are another common one, and some of those can be very powerful, both hallucinogenic and just straight up death.

Pine trees keep other plants from growing around them by acidifying the ground with their needles.

Caffeine is in many plants as an insecticide, we just don't get enough to kill us (the caffeine buzz is enough to fry tiny insect brains).

Carnivorous plants are pretty well covered in fantasy, but the pitcher plants would make great traps.

And of course the largest living thing on the plant is a 100 acre aspen forest (single root system) in Utah, that idea could be played with.

Yora
2018-10-26, 07:05 AM
I just had the idea of a big tree that makes people sleepy and anyone who falls asleep in contact with its trunk slowly transforms into part of its bark.

For extra weirdness, anyone who can communicate with spirits can try to get at the memories of anyone who's been absorbed. Some tribes and cults might even do it deliberately with their dying leaders and sages.

Eldan
2018-10-26, 07:37 AM
This is getting spoilery, but read Midworld. Really, really read Midworld.

Lord Torath
2018-10-26, 08:04 AM
D&D Dungeon Module X2 Castle Amber had Amber Lotus Blossoms (puffs of lotus pollen would knock you unconscious), Grab Grass (grabs you and holds you fast) and Vampiric Roses (White rose bushes that wrap thorny vines around you, draining your blood and turning the roses red).

A1 Slave Pits of the Undercity had a Giant Sundew plant.

Honest Tiefling
2018-10-26, 12:14 PM
Is there a plant that creates noxious smoke when burnt? Eucalyptus trees don't just make an oily mist, they can outright explode in fires. But still, you should consider plenty of defenses against the players lighting everything on fire. Because, yanno, they'll do that anyway, plants or no plants.

Also, what of roses? I do believe that rose thorns (and presumably of other plants) can carry bacteria and fungus, and getting pricked by one can actually lead to nasty fungal infections.

Some sort of urgot poisoning would also be very thematic. Think you can trust humble wheat? GUESS AGAIN.

Max_Killjoy
2018-10-26, 12:28 PM
Is there a plant that creates noxious smoke when burnt? Eucalyptus trees don't just make an oily mist, they can outright explode in fires. But still, you should consider plenty of defenses against the players lighting everything on fire. Because, yanno, they'll do that anyway, plants or no plants.

Also, what of roses? I do believe that rose thorns (and presumably of other plants) can carry bacteria and fungus, and getting pricked by one can actually lead to nasty fungal infections.

Some sort of urgot poisoning would also be very thematic. Think you can trust humble wheat? GUESS AGAIN.

Some people are so sensitive to poison ivy that being exposed to the smoke from it burning can set off their reaction, including inside the lungs. If the fire isn't intensely hot, the oil that causes the reaction gets partially aerosolized or vaporized in the smoke.

Yora
2018-10-26, 01:06 PM
All plants are vulnerable to fungi, and roses get is particularly bad. But I've never heard about contaminated thorns as a health risk. Though that doesn't mean that a deadly jungle shouldn't have them. :smallbiggrin:

And ergot is just brutal. It can lead to terrible brain damage and physical mutilation. It's the worst natural food contamination I can think of. That stuff can wipe out whole villages in very horrible ways.

Max_Killjoy
2018-10-26, 01:20 PM
For other weirdness, bloodsucking butterflies, with hallucinogenic pheromones.

Yora
2018-10-26, 01:49 PM
Duuude....

Max_Killjoy
2018-10-26, 01:51 PM
The hallucinations are subtle... just enough to keep people from realizing the dozens of butterflies that have landed on them have also uncurled those proboscis mouthparts and... just enough to induce mild euphoric feelings and contentment, and make the colors of the wings seem more vibrant...

Yora
2018-10-26, 02:22 PM
Or maybe the poison actually lets you see behind the ilusions that are hiding the true reality of the universe.

Nobody is able to definitely tell either way.

I plan on running a campaign with strong incomprehensible supernatural phenomenons. A little critter that eithers helps you see better or dream up nonsense is perfect for that. :smallbiggrin:

Yora
2018-10-28, 05:43 AM
I've been thinking that for an supernatural apocalyptic forest setting, the forest needs to feel alien. A forest in itself does not feel treacherous and disconcerning, even when it covers the whole world. For characters within the world, the forest would of course be the only way they knew, but I think the strangeness that players feel of an alien forest would go well in hand with the feeling of characters leaving the familiar safety of their protected homes.

What would make a forest feel alien instead of a regular forest on Earth? The only thing that pops up in my head is mixing the trees with mushrooms of the same size.

Thinker
2018-10-28, 09:00 AM
I've been thinking that for an supernatural apocalyptic forest setting, the forest needs to feel alien. A forest in itself does not feel treacherous and disconcerning, even when it covers the whole world. For characters within the world, the forest would of course be the only way they knew, but I think the strangeness that players feel of an alien forest would go well in hand with the feeling of characters leaving the familiar safety of their protected homes.

What would make a forest feel alien instead of a regular forest on Earth? The only thing that pops up in my head is mixing the trees with mushrooms of the same size.

Strange physical properties: pools that look like water, but are filled with some liquid as viscous as molasses (maybe like a tar pit); unexpected cold or hot areas; areas as bright as day during the night (bio-luminescence), areas so thick in foliage that they can't see the sky for days and areas so sparse that the undergrowth is the only reminder that they're in the never-ending forest; soil that is differently colored and grows certain plants better or worse; predatory plants.

ImNotTrevor
2018-10-28, 10:59 AM
I've been thinking that for an supernatural apocalyptic forest setting, the forest needs to feel alien. A forest in itself does not feel treacherous and disconcerning, even when it covers the whole world. For characters within the world, the forest would of course be the only way they knew, but I think the strangeness that players feel of an alien forest would go well in hand with the feeling of characters leaving the familiar safety of their protected homes.

What would make a forest feel alien instead of a regular forest on Earth? The only thing that pops up in my head is mixing the trees with mushrooms of the same size.

The forest functions like an ocean, except instead of water depth its tree height.

For the first little while the trees are small , and get taller and taller as you go, and the foliage of the canopy gets thicker and thicker.

After a few miles the forest floor is murky, about as bright as a full moon night when it's actually noon.

After maybe 50 miles it's pitch black. You wpuld need a torch to see by. The trees are so tall and their canopies so thick that there is no more wind. Their trunks are the size of buildings and far apart. The fauna here is massive, pale, bioluminescent, and terrifying. Imagine a deer, white furred, massive antlers, with the jaws and teeth of an angler fish, standing as tall as a house. Dragonflies the size of vultures spray glowing acid. Snakes so long their bodies take days to pass. Bears the size of whales. Strange, otherworldly creatures that glow as they slither among the upper reaches, dangling sticky strands to trap smaller prey and drag it upwards to many waiting mouths...

Occassionally they will find islands of daylight in the darkness, but with the various ambush predators that display illusions of exactly that... after long enough one learns to fear the light more than the dark.

Seems appropriately apocalyptic, terrifying, and alien. Make the familiar unfamiliar and you've nailed it.

Erloas
2018-10-28, 01:53 PM
You have to go a few ways. Either alien to the players, but the characters are going to be used to it. Or some event just happened and it's a new thing so the whole world is learning about it and just dealing with it. Magic burst and suddenly it's happening.
Or alien to players and characters but the rest of the world is used to it. Like a random plane shift sort of thing, or time jump so they're not there for the change

ImNotTrevor
2018-10-28, 03:14 PM
You have to go a few ways. Either alien to the players, but the characters are going to be used to it. Or some event just happened and it's a new thing so the whole world is learning about it and just dealing with it. Magic burst and suddenly it's happening.
Or alien to players and characters but the rest of the world is used to it. Like a random plane shift sort of thing, or time jump so they're not there for the change

I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I think a variant on the "Forest as Ocean" principle would work for both.

If the forest is sufficiently hostile as density increases, information about its depths may indeed be very sparse. We understand very little about the deepest depths of the ocean and still find it to be a realm of nightmarish horror if we think about it and we've been living with it for thousands of years. But that realm is so hostile to us that going there is a death sentence without proper preparation and protection.

Treating the Forest like the bottom of the ocean allows it to be both a longstanding threat, and a mystery. Plus, as a bonus, we get all the stories and tales of those who barely survived the murkiest depths, but nowhere near enough to fully understand the threat.

You can have it both ways, you just have to go about it with a particular mindset.

Honest Tiefling
2018-10-28, 05:46 PM
And ergot is just brutal. It can lead to terrible brain damage and physical mutilation. It's the worst natural food contamination I can think of. That stuff can wipe out whole villages in very horrible ways.

I can't tell if this means you can or cannot use the idea. I'll assume can.

Well, if we can mention bugs, maybe the Death Forest has something like the japanese death wasp japanese giant hornet as a pollinator might be a good idea. Flesh melting acid is a classic for a reason.

Another idea is to explore the idea of multiple layers and vertical environments. With giant fungi or different tree species you could have the players transverse not just the ground, but branches or the canopy. Large burrowing bugs could make for tunnels with interesting magical or physical properties as well. Having things like arboreal species that never encounter the ground would also be interesting, especially if the party meets one or has to find one. You might need to think of what species of vine can be made into rope, however.

And yet another idea is reminding players that other species than humans (or whatever player races you have) aren't the only ones to get high/drunk. Plants could secrete or facilitate fermention to attract animal species for their own use. Perhaps something based off of the yage vine and jaguars. Probably less nightmarish to be chased down by a drugged up dire cat, but I think it would be an amusing interlude anyway. Can't scare them all the time!

Isn't there a species of plant with huge burrs? Perhaps one is adapted to cling to the fur of giant animals, and happens to be rather nasty for delicate tiny humanoid feet. Then again, the players might collect these seed pods as a free weapon.

Thinker
2018-10-29, 07:26 AM
The forest functions like an ocean, except instead of water depth its tree height.

For the first little while the trees are small , and get taller and taller as you go, and the foliage of the canopy gets thicker and thicker.

After a few miles the forest floor is murky, about as bright as a full moon night when it's actually noon.

After maybe 50 miles it's pitch black. You wpuld need a torch to see by. The trees are so tall and their canopies so thick that there is no more wind. Their trunks are the size of buildings and far apart. The fauna here is massive, pale, bioluminescent, and terrifying. Imagine a deer, white furred, massive antlers, with the jaws and teeth of an angler fish, standing as tall as a house. Dragonflies the size of vultures spray glowing acid. Snakes so long their bodies take days to pass. Bears the size of whales. Strange, otherworldly creatures that glow as they slither among the upper reaches, dangling sticky strands to trap smaller prey and drag it upwards to many waiting mouths...

Occassionally they will find islands of daylight in the darkness, but with the various ambush predators that display illusions of exactly that... after long enough one learns to fear the light more than the dark.

Seems appropriately apocalyptic, terrifying, and alien. Make the familiar unfamiliar and you've nailed it.

I love this idea. On a world covered entirely by forests, I can imagine mountains and hills being like the shallows of our oceans. The trees don't get quite as tall or packed quite as closely together. The valleys, on the other hand, would be the darkest depths where none dare venture. Rivers and lakes might be safe so long as you don't go ashore in the wrong spot.

ImNotTrevor
2018-10-29, 07:56 AM
I love this idea. On a world covered entirely by forests, I can imagine mountains and hills being like the shallows of our oceans. The trees don't get quite as tall or packed quite as closely together. The valleys, on the other hand, would be the darkest depths where none dare venture. Rivers and lakes might be safe so long as you don't go ashore in the wrong spot.

You can add to the weird by making it such that the trees seem level when observed from the tops of mountains, but it is evident that many of the trees reach titanic heights even across flat ground. Prompting confusion about the true nature of the forest. Then again, I love the reaction I get when a world is contradictory on purpose. And the process of players realizing that reality has become malleable and uncertain in this place. Like...

"Didn't you just say the trees were unbelievably tall while we were walking over there?"
"Yup."
"And the trees are all nearly uniform height now?"
"It seems to be so from here, yes."
"How does that make sense?"
"I believe your character has just realized that it doesn't make any sense at all. How do we see him react to that realization?"

It prompts great moments.

I also feel like, when the trees are the size of buildings and may be great distances apart while still blotting out the sun, you may very well find entire lakes shrouded in darkness.

It may be good to allow them to see predator/prey interactions from a distance long before they fight such creatures themselves. It gives a good indication of the danger level.

I'd run this as a Hexcrawl, 100%.

Thinker
2018-10-29, 09:42 AM
You can add to the weird by making it such that the trees seem level when observed from the tops of mountains, but it is evident that many of the trees reach titanic heights even across flat ground. Prompting confusion about the true nature of the forest. Then again, I love the reaction I get when a world is contradictory on purpose. And the process of players realizing that reality has become malleable and uncertain in this place. Like...

"Didn't you just say the trees were unbelievably tall while we were walking over there?"
"Yup."
"And the trees are all nearly uniform height now?"
"It seems to be so from here, yes."
"How does that make sense?"
"I believe your character has just realized that it doesn't make any sense at all. How do we see him react to that realization?"

It prompts great moments.

I also feel like, when the trees are the size of buildings and may be great distances apart while still blotting out the sun, you may very well find entire lakes shrouded in darkness.

It may be good to allow them to see predator/prey interactions from a distance long before they fight such creatures themselves. It gives a good indication of the danger level.

I'd run this as a Hexcrawl, 100%.

I tend to favor letting the players understand what they perceive more often than not. If all of the trees are the same height, they can figure out that there are taller ones in the valleys.

I do like the idea of lakes and rivers shrouded in twilight except for the brief time where the sun is directly overhead. That's a cool visual.

Yora
2018-10-29, 01:18 PM
I love this idea. On a world covered entirely by forests, I can imagine mountains and hills being like the shallows of our oceans. The trees don't get quite as tall or packed quite as closely together. The valleys, on the other hand, would be the darkest depths where none dare venture. Rivers and lakes might be safe so long as you don't go ashore in the wrong spot.

In my setting, settlements only exist on the edges of water for comparabble reasons. It's easier to clear land when the forest grows back from only one direction, and building roads through the trees is hopeless.

Tvtyrant
2018-10-29, 02:58 PM
What if there is "sunlight" in the dirt and the plants no longer have limits on size or quantity. The plants grow so close together that there is no room at all, as they can't choke each other out.

The most successful plants grow fastest, so any path is gone in days, and compression eventually reaches the point where the plants at the bottom fuse together into a solid block. This slowly grows skyward like a glacier but with fresh foliage extending out of it that.

Kiero
2018-10-29, 03:05 PM
Are you aware of the Summerland RPG? That's about our world ending when a Fae dimension collides with ours, turning all the landmasses into wild forests populated by monsters.

ImNotTrevor
2018-10-29, 03:12 PM
I tend to favor letting the players understand what they perceive more often than not. If all of the trees are the same height, they can figure out that there are taller ones in the valleys.

I do like the idea of lakes and rivers shrouded in twilight except for the brief time where the sun is directly overhead. That's a cool visual.

It's definitely a style choice, for me. Hence why I included my particular enjoyment of such inconsistent data as being the truth as a sidenote.

I'd say that "depth" should increase regardless over distance, with valleys and canyons being much like the Mariana Trench and other trenches. The pitch-black portion of the ocean exists even outside of its "valleys" but those deep areas are particularly horrible places to be a human trying to survive.

Honest Tiefling
2018-10-29, 08:16 PM
The pitch-black portion of the ocean exists even outside of its "valleys" but those deep areas are particularly horrible places to be a human trying to survive.

I somewhat doubt the game is going to be D&D, but this made me think of forest drow. I would consider putting a race such as goblins that are normally cave dwelling and nocturnal into those bits just to remind the players that this campaign is a little different than what they were expecting.

Through that does beg the question, what IS underground? Or are there no underground bits? Maybe the underdark is the nicer place to live, considering.

ImNotTrevor
2018-10-29, 08:22 PM
I somewhat doubt the game is going to be D&D, but this made me think of forest drow. I would consider putting a race such as goblins that are normally cave dwelling and nocturnal into those bits just to remind the players that this campaign is a little different than what they were expecting.

Through that does beg the question, what IS underground? Or are there no underground bits? Maybe the underdark is the nicer place to live, considering.

Giant trees have giant roots.
Giant roots mean giant, root-eating vermin.

I imagine that down below is basically as above but upside down, save for some mountains. Every dungeon is likely penetrated by roots and vines, Underdark included (if you include it at all) but getting underground will be hard enough as it is.

Slipperychicken
2018-10-30, 12:33 AM
If the growth of this forest is meant to be apocalyptic, then how about having overrun settlements, using the surreal dominance of nature over artifice to foreshadow what could happen to the PCs' homes if they fail their quest.

Concrete
2018-10-30, 03:56 AM
Parasites that alter behavior are pretty nasty. Imagine running into a tribe of people who seemingly coexist with the forest. The huge beasts will not eat them, the spores do not poison them... They don't seem too bright, but they're alive out here, so they have to be doing something right! And they're so calm all the time!

But there is that wrongness about them. Don't they look a little too well fed? Their bellies are straining for goodness sake! And some do seem a bit sickly. Wait, did that one just fall down? And they're just leaving him there? Why is he twitching like that?

I'm starting to feel that maybe we shouldn't have had any of that soup earlier...