Grapple Rules - Give me a Hand?

[Guy Lombard-O]

I was just reading another thread (about Spike Growth and Grappling), and I remembered a question I had about how grappling works.

I see in the rules that: "The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an Attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the Grappled condition (see Conditions )."

So I get that you must have "one free hand" to initiate the grapple in the RAW. My questions arose because I was playing a mood druid, and I was wondering about grappling as a brown bear. I guess I really have two questions:
1) Can a bear grapple? It has no "hand", and there's nothing about being able to grapple in the Brown Bear stat block. But it seems logical enough that a bear (or a dog or whatever) could grab you in its jaws and hold on.
2) If a bear can grapple, does it need to keep the grappled creature in its jaws AFTER the grapple is established? Can it just prone out the creature and then plant a heavy back foot on the proned creature? Does that free up its attacks for another creature, should it want to do that? In other words, do you still need "one free hand" AFTER the grapple is established?

I'm sure the RAI answer is simple and spelled out somewhere, but I just don't know it. Thanks in advance for any advice.


EDIT: Yes, I meant mooN druid

[Mr.Spastic]

I was playing a mood druid

So does that mean your magic comes from edgyness.

[Unoriginal]

I was just reading another thread (about Spike Growth and Grappling), and I remembered a question I had about how grappling works.

I see in the rules that: "The target of your grapple must be no more than one size larger than you and must be within your reach. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an Attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target’s Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use). If you succeed, you subject the target to the Grappled condition (see Conditions )."

So I get that you must have "one free hand" to initiate the grapple in the RAW. My questions arose because I was playing a mood druid, and I was wondering about grappling as a brown bear. I guess I really have two questions:
1) Can a bear grapple? It has no "hand", and there's nothing about being able to grapple in the Brown Bear stat block. But it seems logical enough that a bear (or a dog or whatever) could grab you in its jaws and hold on.
2) If a bear can grapple, does it need to keep the grappled creature in its jaws AFTER the grapple is established? Can it just prone out the creature and then plant a heavy back foot on the proned creature? Does that free up its attacks for another creature, should it want to do that? In other words, do you still need "one free hand" AFTER the grapple is established?

I'm sure the RAI answer is simple and spelled out somewhere, but I just don't know it. Thanks in advance for any advice.

I would rule out that a bear-shaped druid could bear-hug their opponent, because the form is just similar enough to an humanoid to allow it, but "holding them in your jaw" goes against the principle of the grappling rules. A wolf-shaped druid cannot grapple, for example. You could try a move like "bite their clothes to keep them from running" or the like, but then I wouldn't use the same rules as for regular grappling.

Some creatures have bite attacks that also grapple, but it's indicated in their statblocks and their bites aren't like the bear's.

On the other question: no matter what, you need to keep having one hand free to keep the grapple ongoing.

[Guy Lombard-O]

So does that mean your magic comes from edgyness.

Welllll...there was a multi-class level of barbarian thrown in there, so...yes? :smallbiggrin:

[NecessaryWeevil]

I would say that you either need hands or something in the stat block allowing you to grapple, so no according to the rules, no.

However, your proposed ruling seems reasonable.

[guachi]

I’d allow a bear to grapple with two hand/paws but not with its jaws unless the creature was small. We do have creatures that can grapple with their jaws but those creatures have large jaws built for it, like crocodiles.

[tieren]

Some cool aquatic/amphibious creatures have built in grapple attacks (giant octopus, giant crab).

[Man_Over_Game]

There's a lot of controversy over this, surprisingly enough.

Generally, though, if it doesn't have hands and it doesn't have a special action in it's creature block that refers to grappling, it can't grapple.

RPG Stack Exchange question on this topic: Does a Druid in Wild Shape need hands to grapple? (https://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/104555/does-a-druid-in-wild-shape-need-hands-to-grapple)

I suppose there's nothing stopping your DM from adding it into the block, but I'd probably do something like:


Special attack: You may use your weight to shove a creature. It must be Large or smaller. Make a check to shove the target prone, adding your Constitution modifier as a bonus to your check. If the target is knocked prone, you can use your Bonus Action to grapple the creature with a second check. Any checks needed to make or maintain this grapple retain your Constitution modifier as a bonus. You cannot move while maintaining this grapple, but you may end it at any time.

While grappling this way, you cannot perform any other attacks other than your Bite attack.

[ThePolarBear]

I'm sure the RAI answer is simple and spelled out somewhere, but I just don't know it. Thanks in advance for any advice
Sage Advice 2017, page 11. (http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf)

[Guy Lombard-O]

Sage Advice 2017, page 11. (http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/SA-Compendium.pdf)

Thanks, you all (and Sage Advice)! This seems like a reasonable approach.

"RPG Stack Exchange question on this topic: Does a Druid in Wild Shape need hands to grapple?" This one hews closely to the RAW, as I stated above. But it just seems wrong in application, for failing to capture what we all know about animals IRL.

I get that many creatures/beasts don't have hands and don't have a specific grapple ability, but it just seems like any rule that doesn't allow for a pit bull or a police dog to grapple with its mouth is really missing any simulation of reality by a long shot. I mean, grabbing and holding on is what they do! Even my cat can and does grapple mice, prone them out (let them go, prone out, let go, prone, repeat ad naseum), and carry them around in its mouth. So using an attack to do a regular grapple and hold on seems about right. :smallsmile:

[Joe the Rat]

Remember that Grapple is grabbing a creature and keeping it from moving on their own. Snagging clothing is totally in the realm of the necessary grab.

It's Restrained that gets tricky.