Need an "I told you so" character

[Nicodiemus]

Ok, so a player wants to take a stab at DMing my table. I warned him against anything goes characters but he isn't listening.

Here's the challenge- without homebrew/UA and no flying, what character is most likely to give the DM a headache? I'd like it to kind of slow roll, and I'm feeling hexblade if possible

[Unoriginal]

Why do you want to ruin his try at DMing?

[Garfunion]

Why are you trying to sabotage a new DM’s experience? It also sounds like the “anything goes” is only allowing official materials, which are at best balanced. Someone in your position should do the best at trying to help the new DM not hinder them.

New DM’s need encouragement not “I told you so”.

[Sigreid]

If there's no homebrew, UA or flying I don't think there's anything completely off the rails. Depending on the campaign some characters will be a bit better than others, but not much crazy.

That said, A deep gnome Abjuration wizard with the racial feat to recharge his ward at no cost and a dip to cleric for heavy armor and a shield.

[Trask]

Frankly, whats the matter with you?

[GreyBlack]

That's terrible. You should never go out of your way to ruin someone's experience DMing.

But if you did, Halfling Divination Wizard with the Lucky feat.

[Galithar]

Multiclass cheese.

Warforged for armor (15+Prof+shield)

Fighter 2
Warlock 2
Sorcerer X


Fighter gives you action Surge, second wind, and heavy armor.
Warlock Devil's Sight and Agonizing Blast
Sorcerer has Quickened and Subtle

At low levels you won't be amazing, but you said you want it to roll slow.

At high levels you can do crazy Sorlock at-will damage and dominate social settings with subtle enchantments.

Cast darkness on yourself. You have perma-advantage. Hexblade curse the big bad.
Next turn Action surge and quicken Eldritch Blast. (Throw in leveled spell if desired) for 12d10+60 damage all at advantage with crits on 19&20

Edit: forgot Hexblade curse in damage, that's +136 not +60

Probably not the most broken anything goes character but I'm at work right now

[Man_Over_Game]

Kind of a d*** move.

But you know what your parents said about d*** moves. "If you're gonna screw someone, you'd better do it while I know you're doing it responsibly".

----------

Moon Druid 2, Barbarian 1 for the most powerful level 3 build.

Vengeance Paladin + Hexblade + Elven Accuracy, for 27% crit chance per attack, available level 4.

Generic Murderhobo #471 (Fighter + GWM, PAM, Sentinel)

Warlock + Sorcerer, to abuse things like Catnap, warlock invocations-to-sorcery point conversions, and other tomfoolery.

[Thrasher92]

That's terrible. You should never go out of your way to ruin someone's experience DMing.

But if you did, Halfling Divination Wizard with the Lucky feat.


Maybe add a few levels of Bard too.

[Dudewithknives]

Halfling
Diviner wizard 2
Lore bard x
Lucky feat
Captain dicemod


Ninjaed

[brainface]

Going to throw my vote in here with "but why?"

I mean, it's not too hard, just play like it's a competition you're trying to win and not a cooperative venture with your friends. You don't need a build for that, you just need to be a jerk. ^^

But to answer the question, sure: Moon Druid. Constantly change into and summon different animals, while asking the DM what the stats are for said animals and what attacks they have. Ask again every turn. And every time you're attacked. If he gives you the monster's manual to figure it out yourself, complain that you can't find the entry. Every turn. There, there's your answer, I hope you're happy.

[Jamesps]

You can ruin a new DM's experience with any character. Seriously, name one, any one. Champion fighter with no feats? Sure. Insist on constant short rests after every encounter. Multiple sometimes, in case you want to use your second wind instead of your hit dice to heal up. Then never let the rest of the party long rest. If they try, run out and trigger an encounter somehow.

You'll have resources, they won't, gradually all the spell casters will die. Campaign ruined.

[Galithar]

You are all missing his point.
It's not too ruin the game, it's to prove that 'anything goes' is a dangerous precedent.

On that note it doesn't have to be a build. Play chaotic evil murderhobo in a good campaign. Be lawful stupid in any campaign. Make your character so extreme that it had to be reeled in.

[Fire Tarrasque]

Nah, it has to be anything goes. Let's make it mechanical.
Play a Mystic and min/max the hell out of it.
Mystics break your DM's brain after a little while.
Or take a single level in every single class.

[Teaguethebean]

You are a sick **** that said coffeelock

[DerficusRex]

For a super literal interpretation of "Anything Goes", go for a bard who constantly plays Cole Porter numbers.

[Tiadoppler]

"Anything goes" campaigns can be fun, especially with a more open-world game style. Really, what it boils down to is:


Can the DM trust their Players to have fun and not ruin each others' fun?


And apparently the answer, in this case, is a resounding "No." A first time DM should be encouraged, not discouraged. Take it easy, help them with rules and rulings, don't be on your worst behavior. Give them some advice on what sorts of campaigns benefit from greater character build restrictions.

You can mess with a new DM in a thousand ways, even if you've got the most basic, standard, single-class PHB Ranger. Don't.


How to screw up a new DM's first game:
Split the party and leave the area. Continue attempting to play the game at the same time as the main party.
Don't accept quest hooks. Attack quest givers.
Run away from danger. Ask NPC soldiers or guards for help.
Have spells and abilities from as many books as possible. Don't bring the books.
Ask the DM to look up your spells and abilities as you use them.
Use your phone to look up the prewritten adventure he's using. Skip ahead and start reacting to events a few pages in advance. Read aloud.
Start out of character drama with the other players.
Start an interesting conversation at the table. Stop playing D&D. Go to the DM afterwards and complain that nothing happened in the game.

[Unoriginal]

You are all missing his point.
It's not too ruin the game, it's to prove that 'anything goes' is a dangerous precedent.

On that note it doesn't have to be a build. Play chaotic evil murderhobo in a good campaign. Be lawful stupid in any campaign. Make your character so extreme that it had to be reeled in.

No matter the intent, the result will be a beginner DM who got their hard work **** on.

[MaxWilson]

Ok, so a player wants to take a stab at DMing my table. I warned him against anything goes characters but he isn't listening.

Here's the challenge- without homebrew/UA and no flying, what character is most likely to give the DM a headache? I'd like it to kind of slow roll, and I'm feeling hexblade if possible

A character who has no family, no relationships, lives only for killing things, doesn't care about treasure, and doesn't pursue plot hooks. He just passively waits for things to attack him and then he attacks them back.

I don't recommend that you actually play that character because it creates headaches for everyone at the table, not just the DM.

[Galithar]

Oh I never said it was a good idea. I'm of the mindset that if someone asks a question I answer the question, not tell them they're wrong to ask it in the first place.

Besides the fact that you don't really need to go out if your way to prove this point. It'll happen in it's own. Anything goes only works if the players restrain themselves from shenanigans. If they don't then you get chairs and broken campaigns.

[Chijinda]

I feel an obligatory plug to Puffin Forest's "Abserd" is required here.

------

Seriously though. This is not likely necessary. "Anything goes" is perfectly fine-- as long as nobody abuses it. If nobody else in the group is abusing it, neither should you.

(Though if you absolutely insist, I know of a somewhat unconventional Gnome Bard-Barian build that one of my group used in a recent campaign that drove the GM insane, which used the Bard base class, and the Barbarian's advantage on Strength saves while raging + Gnomes mental saves against magic, to make a build that had either proficiency or Advantage in every single save + Barbarian HP).

[GlenSmash!]

Ok, so a player wants to take a stab at DMing my table. I warned him against anything goes characters but he isn't listening.

Here's the challenge- without homebrew/UA and no flying, what character is most likely to give the DM a headache? I'd like it to kind of slow roll, and I'm feeling hexblade if possible

If you really want to give the DM headaches...

Have your character try to seduce every NPC you meet. Set fire to random things during diplomatic situations. Spend your actions on long speeches int eh middle of combat, or other useless things.

Consume all the snacks that are redivided. Never provide your own. Likewise with drinks.

[Sigreid]

You are all missing his point.
It's not too ruin the game, it's to prove that 'anything goes' is a dangerous precedent.

On that note it doesn't have to be a build. Play chaotic evil murderhobo in a good campaign. Be lawful stupid in any campaign. Make your character so extreme that it had to be reeled in.

But it's not anything goes. It's just published materials.

[Galithar]

That changes nothing. How many builds or playstyles were listed already? They are all headaches for DMs and by the published books legal.
Most DMs (especially new ones) get frustrated by these things and it makes it hard for them to run the game.

Now it would be better for the OP to show this thread to the person in question instead of actually doing these things, but that's not what he asked for. He asked how to give a DM a headache.

[sithlordnergal]

...how is an "Anything Goes" game a bad idea? I prefer giving my players anything goes, with the same no homebrew/ua or flying stuff. Though I tend to allow the Revised Ranger. Personally, I'd be against giving a new DM a hard time. Let him have fun.

That said...if you wanna screw with him:

Soradins break the game pretty easily. Especially if you take a Volo Race, Xanathar Sorcerer Subclass, and Green Flame or Booming Blade

Coffeelocks are vicious

Moon Druids from Chult, get your dinos on

Divination Wizard and Tasha's Hideous Laughter.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Play a Kender.

Or a Gully Dwarf.

Any class you like.

[Sigreid]

So, to be more direct on something I think we all agree on, unless your goal is to be a forever DM, discouraging someone from DMing when they start is stupid. Even if the goal is to be the forever DM, it's a jerk move. It would be much better to be extra cooperative and encouraging.

[Keravath]

PAM+GWM variant human hexblade warlock who uses darkness+devils sight all the time to get advantage and hit three times a round at level 5 for potentially (d10 + 10 + 3 +1) x 2 + (d4 + 10 + 3 + 1) using devils sight, improved pact weapon and thirsting blade. Average is about 55 damage/round at level 5 and this is possible since every attack is with advantage. PAM+GWM comes online with darkness+devils sight at level 4 ... two attacks with advantage at level 3. Completely legal and does quite a bit of melee damage with eldritch blast as ranged backup.

Sorcerer/warlock. Use quicken and twin for spells and cantrips. Hex + eldritch-agonizing blast + quicken can add up to a lot of damage quickly and if you go half elf you could follow up with elven advantage if you want for crit seeking whenever you can arrange to have advantage.

Sharpshooter/crossbow expert build ... hexblade option for always on advantage due to darkness+devils sight or shadows of moil. A bit safer and more party friendly in some ways than PAM+GWM ... the only problem is that hand crossbows can't be created as a pact weapon even with improved pact weapon though a hand crossbow is eligible for regular hex warrior. This build also works for ranger/rogue (human variant - gloomstalker ranger 5 + assassin rogue ... if you get a surprise round it will be brutal .. if you get to fight in the dark it will also be brutal :) ).

Divination wizard + halfling + lucky feat for dice manipulation ... add in lore bard for cutting words.

If the new DM likes skills then you could go something like lore bard 3 + rogue 2 for expertise in four skills at the beginning and cunning action. Also, hypnotic pattern can be a great spell to completely reshape a combat depending on the dice rolls ... and if you happen to come across an instrument of the bards then all those hypnotic pattern saves are at disadvantage. Bard 3, rogue 3 scout and knowledge cleric gives expertise in 8 skills .. build however you like after that.

However, honestly, none of these builds are "broken" .. they may not be as well rounded as you might want and most deal damage very efficiently which may or may not surprise the new DM depending on past player experience ... but I think the only thing you could really cause a problem with would be the trance elf 4 hours + 4 short rest coffee lock who uses the 4 short rest slots while the rest of the party finishes their long rest to generate a few extra spell slots ... but even that isn't really broken unless the DM allows the player to spend the day creating spell slots.

P.S. Personally, I would just ban the entire coffee lock concept in a game I was running since I just don't see the point in allowing it.

[denthor]

Now see I want to test my skill as a player.

Make the most broken character you can.

In my case that was Holly.

Human fighter graduate of an Italian fighter college. Being a female chaotic good and a lawful school she was delegated to a second rank fighter. Don't follow the school rules you get taken advantage of.

Her feats 1st level start 3.5

Exotic weapon net
Exotic weapon Whip
Trip feat.

Ended up with a halberd being my favorite weapon. Had all kinds of fun. Her idea of a bar. If the men were pissing on the walls she went in.

Ran her to 14th level 6 fighter 4 Rouge 5 wizard. For some reason we kept going into caves underdark places without light. Dark vision was her friend which is why she went wizard with a 14 intelligence and a wisdom of 9. The drow refused to attack she used the whip on the males of the city the drow females approved.

[GreyBlack]

Kind of a d*** move.

But you know what your parents said about d*** moves. "If you're gonna screw someone, you'd better do it while I know you're doing it responsibly".

----------

Moon Druid 2, Barbarian 1 for the most powerful level 3 build.

Vengeance Paladin + Hexblade + Elven Accuracy, for 27% crit chance per attack, available level 4.

Generic Murderhobo #471 (Fighter + GWM, PAM, Sentinel)

Warlock + Sorcerer, to abuse things like Catnap, warlock invocations-to-sorcery point conversions, and other tomfoolery.

Just out of curiosity, how do you qualify for Elven Accuracy at level 4 with that build?

[GreyBlack]

You are all missing his point.
It's not too ruin the game, it's to prove that 'anything goes' is a dangerous precedent.

On that note it doesn't have to be a build. Play chaotic evil murderhobo in a good campaign. Be lawful stupid in any campaign. Make your character so extreme that it had to be reeled in.

There is nothing dangerous about the "Anything Goes." AS LONG AS EVERYONE AT THE TABLE IS HAVING FUN, IT'S FINE.

When ANY DM says "anything goes," you still can't break the social contract. If your goal is to not have fun at D&D that night, then maybe suggest playing Settlers of Catan instead of ruining everyone's night.

That said, if you want to have fun and not ruin the fun, Everything Goes is legitimate. I'm actually going to be running one of these soon (with a single caveat of "No Chaotic Evil or Neutral Evil" simply because I'm not sure if my group can handle it yet without being disruptive towards each other) and that's because I want my players to be absolutely ridiculously powerful and feel like they're dominating and powerful. There's no Pun Pun level builds in 5e, so any build you make is fine.

Just don't be a wangrod.

[Galithar]

Just out of curiosity, how do you qualify for Elven Accuracy at level 4 with that build?

Vhuman half elf, DUH! lol
Probably just got ahead of himself a small bit and forgot he'd need a higher level for the feat. Probably character level 5 or 6 depending on the split.

[Nicodiemus]

Thanks for the concern, guys. No, I'm absolutely not trying to derail my friend, it's just an object lesson. I'll retire the cheese and replace him once he sees that he needs to pay attention to the PC builds and assert a bit of control.

[Mr.Spastic]

I think what your really trying to do is show off what's capable without any strict guidlines, right? So do any of the aforementioned builds. My suggestion would be to play something stupid or obscire, like an elven barbarian or a gnome barbarian. A real fun one is an aasimar with evil divine soul sorcery. The books don't provide alot of specifically broken things but playing something illogical gets on the nerves of several DMs, especially new ones. Not me though.

Just picture it
"Why don't we introduce characters?"
"I am playing Thamariel the High Elf. He walks around shirtless with a glaive on his back. He was kicked out of elven society because his burning passions were seen as a defect."
"What?"
"You said anything goes."

This won't hurt his dm experience in the slightest but it will constantly confuse him with the abstract nature of your character.

[ImproperJustice]

My fingers are crossed that the game ends up being all role-playing.

My wide did that once. Let us make level 20 characters, tool our sheets, then said: “Great, now you are all these characters when they were seven years old.”
Then the game went on from there with us playing as kids, and out stats prettt much didn’t matter.

[Contrast]

Thanks for the concern, guys. No, I'm absolutely not trying to derail my friend, it's just an object lesson. I'll retire the cheese and replace him once he sees that he needs to pay attention to the PC builds and assert a bit of control.

'My friend wants to try out a sport but didn't listen to my advice on how he should prepare. I'm going to go in full force with my years of experience at the sport in our games in a concerted effort to annihilate them and make it unpleasant for them. I'm not trying to ruin the experience, just give him an object lesson - don't worry I'll tone it down once he admits he's ready to follow my instructions.'

:smallconfused: Can you see why this doesn't seem particularly supportive of your friend trying out DMing to the rest of us?

Out of interest can I ask what restrictions you normally play with that you feel are so vital to the play experience? Outside of Adventurers League I've never played in a game where a DM has put additional restrictions on character creation and its never caused any issues. Anything goes from an official rulebook seems a perfectly valid approach to 5E char creation. Some things are ahead of the power curve compared to other options. I once played in a game where I was a rogue with BB and a fighter in the same game had 13s in str and dex and took Linguist as his feat at level 4. Even then I was better than him but not by such a large margin that he didn't feel like he was contributing and thats about as extreme as it gets - and in that case the fighter really had to work at being below the bar.

[ATHATH]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaotiOp45dg

IMO, "anything goes" is fine if your group has some level of trust/faith in its members- which it should. Plus, you don't wanna push too hard, or else the DM might swing too hard the other way and start banning stuff that isn't actually all that game breaking.

If you want to scare him, just show him a Coffeelock or a Bear Totem Barbarian 1/Moon Druid 2 (depending on what level you're starting at) build and don't actually bring that stuff to the table. This/that is still a bad idea, though.

[Pelle]

Thanks for the concern, guys. No, I'm absolutely not trying to derail my friend, it's just an object lesson. I'll retire the cheese and replace him once he sees that he needs to pay attention to the PC builds and assert a bit of control.

If no one else are abusing cheese, there is no need to impose restrictions and there is no need for a lesson. If someone else are, the lesson will be learned, and then there's no need for you to do it as well.

'Anything goes' works fine if everyone act in good faith. Don't act in bad faith.

This sounds like 'A boy named Sue' situation...

[Magzimum]

Just walk the other way than the rest of the party, and follow your own story and ignore the DM...

But are you really gonna ruin an entire day for a whole group of people just so you can say "I told you so" at the end? That's a deep and heavy grudge you're holding there...

[Mordaedil]

If you want a frustrating time at the table for a DM, the answer isn't in giving him a key that progresses his plot along, it's in giving him something he can't work with.

So my suggestion is a commoner you rolle the stats for so you have 3 in everything. You can't open a jar. You can't solve a single puzzle. You can barely wrestle a pig. You have no business being an adventurer. Why are you even here?

There's your character, there's the dangerous precedent.

[Spiritchaser]

If you make this a competition you will lose, and you might just damage everyone’s fun doing it.

May I suggest an alternative strategy?

Discover the builds of the other players.

There is quite a possibility that one of those characters will be particularly weak in comparison to others.

Try and come up with a character which supports and synergizes exceptionally well with the weaker character, bringing everyone closer to a level field.

[RipTide]

So official material only , no flying... I see 0 problems with this for character creation. In fact if a DM put to many more restrictions on character creation I would call them out for not letting people play the characters they want to play.

Literally the only time this would be a problem is if somebody was purposely trying to be a jerk about it (hint hint cough cough)

[Brawndo]

Enough people have pointed out that this is a questionable idea at best, so I'm going to come at it from another angle -

If it's really such a terrible, doomed-to-fail idea, you shouldn't have to expend any special effort to prove it. If you're concerned that the new DM isn't going to learn their lesson without you going to the effort of soliciting Internet advice to build the perfect game-breaking character... then maybe it's not as bad an idea as you think?

Because maybe the lesson he'll learn this way won't be so much, "Anything goes campaigns are a bad idea," but more like, "Don't play D&D with people who will go out of their way to intentionally derail your game to selfishly prove a point."

Which is actually a pretty important lesson for a new DM to learn come to think of it, so maybe go for it either way? Just be prepared for the two most likely outcomes of your actions:

1 - He never DMs again

or

2 - He DMs again in the future, but the guy who derailed his game in a premeditated fashion after soliciting Internet strangers' advice for the most effective way to do so is not invited to play.

[kivzirrum]

So official material only , no flying... I see 0 problems with this for character creation. In fact if a DM put to many more restrictions on character creation I would call them out for not letting people play the characters they want to play.

Literally the only time this would be a problem is if somebody was purposely trying to be a jerk about it (hint hint cough cough)

I was thinking something similar. When I DM, the most I'll ask is people refrain from playing evil characters, or at least refrain from playing evil characters as an excuse to sabotage the party at every turn.

I fail to see how such a "by the book" campaign really counts as some kind of gonzo, anything-goes madhouse (not that I'd be opposed to running that kind of game either, if the players were all interested).

[DMThac0]

You know, I have done something similar to every single DM I have ever taught, I understand your intent and I agree with you. Letting new DMs learn that they have to be on their A-Game when they take the mantle is very important. Making sure they understand that D&D is a very fluid and fickle game when you introduce players, it's very important. Getting them to realize that every single plan they have, including published resources, means squat in the face of free-willed humans, a must have.

However, you're doing it wrong by thinking a class can do that. I played a pure Sorcerer for one of my trainee DMs, he got so frustrated at me that he started to hard target me in combat. I played a pure Fighter for another newbie DM, he complained that my character was OP and tried to figure out what I was doing to make it so. My wife is DMing for my Rogue/Ranger and hates me for being so difficult to deal with. Each of those characters is different, drastically different, but the result was the same; they made the DM's head hurt.

So what is it that makes a DM's head hurt if it's not the class? What is it that I'm doing to teach the DM those special bits of information that you're trying to impart? How can you do it in such a way that it's a lesson and not just a game of "I told you so"?

Be a smart player and make decisions that aren't based on mechanics. My sorcerer never cast a single damage dealing spell, but he could manipulate the opponents and battlefield. I killed creatures using Gust of Wind and I'd pigeon hole opponents with walls and then mind control them. My Fighter almost never ran head first into the fray. He would make tactical movements, coming up with strategies that involved all of my party working in concert. I set fire to a reanimated corpse, sent it running toward the enemies and split their ranks before we even got within missile range. My ranger/rogue sat down, in the middle of a fight, looked at the enemy, and persuaded him to stand down. I then used my deception and persuasion to turn this enemy into a lackey and used him to be our meat shield against the boss that he was just guarding.

Smart and creative players are a much, much, much better lesson than a cheese build that uses mechanics.

[dmteeter]

Variant human barbarian
tavern brawler feat
take a dip into rogue for expertise
take expertise in athletics

Grapple the living hell out of everything you can

[Unoriginal]

Be a smart player and make decisions that aren't based on mechanics. My sorcerer never cast a single damage dealing spell, but he could manipulate the opponents and battlefield. I killed creatures using Gust of Wind and I'd pigeon hole opponents with walls and then mind control them. My Fighter almost never ran head first into the fray. He would make tactical movements, coming up with strategies that involved all of my party working in concert. I set fire to a reanimated corpse, sent it running toward the enemies and split their ranks before we even got within missile range. My ranger/rogue sat down, in the middle of a fight, looked at the enemy, and persuaded him to stand down. I then used my deception and persuasion to turn this enemy into a lackey and used him to be our meat shield against the boss that he was just guarding.

Smart and creative players are a much, much, much better lesson than a cheese build that uses mechanics.

...no offense meant, but this sounds less like being a smart player and more like exploiting the fact new DMs haven't learned to say "no" or handling their ideas getting countered enough.

Killing creatures with Gust of Wind work if you're fighting on a wall, near a cliff/ hole that allow you to make them fall 15ft or more, or near any other battlefield feature which can hurt people, but while it's using the environment to your advantage that's hardly ground-breaking or worth being frustrated over it. Setting fire to a reanimated corpse isn't likely to make any trained combatant split ranks, you're mostly just damaging the undead for no benefit. And Charisma doesn't allow you to turn hostile beings into people willing to risk their life for you just like that unless the DM is extremely generous.

I mean it's a lesson to learn, but it doesn't sound like it's the lesson you intended to teach.

[DMThac0]

...no offense meant, but this sounds less like being a smart player and more like exploiting the fact new DMs haven't learned to say "no" or handling their ideas getting countered enough.

Killing creatures with Gust of Wind work if you're fighting on a wall, near a cliff/ hole that allow you to make them fall 15ft or more, or near any other battlefield feature which can hurt people, but while it's using the environment to your advantage that's hardly ground-breaking or worth being frustrated over it. Setting fire to a reanimated corpse isn't likely to make any trained combatant split ranks, you're mostly just damaging the undead for no benefit. And Charisma doesn't allow you to turn hostile beings into people willing to risk their life for you just like that unless the DM is extremely generous.

I mean it's a lesson to learn, but it doesn't sound like it's the lesson you intended to teach.

No offense taken. I get where you're coming from, and it's not a bad PSA to add in to this thread: exploitation can be as bad as cheesing your DM to say "I told you so".

Those examples were the first ones that popped in to mind, and as you stated, could be handled with great efficacy. However to a new DM, some lateral thinking like that is enough to disrupt them. I don't do it maliciously, heck I try to do it where it won't interfere with the game in any great way. Give me a random encounter that you rolled for us while we travel, I'll find something goofy to throw your way. Give me a boss fight, I'll take it seriously.

You've dealt with enough situations as a player/dm to look at what I gave for examples and intuitively came up with how they'd play out at your table. But this kind of thing can, and most likely will, toss a new Dm for a bit of a loop. It'll put them in a position to make a judgment call, look up rules, and possibly improvise. It then becomes a matter of them seeing how their rulings, and the rest of the game, unfolds due to those calls. Experience to refine how they feel the rules and such are best interpreted by them.

[brainface]

Thanks for the concern, guys. No, I'm absolutely not trying to derail my friend, it's just an object lesson. I'll retire the cheese and replace him once he sees that he needs to pay attention to the PC builds and assert a bit of control.

Or you could police yourself? It sounds like you're trying to prove something is a problem by being a problem. And yeah, that will uh... create a problem?

Like, I may be misunderstanding you but it sounds like you're trying to control what other players are allowed to do by ruining the idea of "everything goes."

Okay but still, here's idea #2:
bladelock warlock, devil's sight, use all your spell slots on darkness.

Constantly tell everyone that warlocks are "So OP." Stand next to the ranged players to protect them. Ready an action to move in case they try to move out of your protective darkness, it's not safe out there. Reiterate how overpowered your combo is, and that you always have advantage. Or would, but you have to stay back and guard the squishies. You should especially do this out of combat while the party is searching for clues or simply walking down the street, to protect them from ambush. Enemies can't hit what they can't see.

[GreyBlack]

Okay but still, here's idea #2:
bladelock warlock, devil's sight, use all your spell slots on darkness.

Constantly tell everyone that warlocks are "So OP." Stand next to the ranged players to protect them. Ready an action to move in case they try to move out of your protective darkness, it's not safe out there. Reiterate how overpowered your combo is, and that you always have advantage. Or would, but you have to stay back and guard the squishies. You should especially do this out of combat while the party is searching for clues or simply walking down the street, to protect them from ambush. Enemies can't hit what they can't see.

..... I now totally want to do this. But then, I'm also a bit of a [REDACTED].

[Reversefigure4]

Explain, slowly, that an anything goes game is a bad idea because there are some players out there who aren't mature enough to work without restrictions on their choices.

Explain that you are one of these players, and if allowed an anything goes game, you will intentionally wreck it with the most OP disruptive build and character you can, until the GM puts restrictions on you.

At least then the GM will understand what's happening and why from the start of the game, rather than drawing the conclusion that GMing is too hard for him or just a painful, unpleasant process.

[Ovarwa]

Hi,

Want to ruin a game with an "anything goes" character?

It's not about the class or race, but about the character.

So, create a character who, at the earliest opportunity, screws the party. Stab someone in the back when he's at low hp? Cast an attack cantrip instead of Healing Word? Cast Fireball centered on yourself? Admit to the town guard that you guys did it? So many choices. It might not even be your character's fault, just the voices in his head.

Game ruined.

You told em so.

Anyway,

Ken

[Sigreid]

This whole idea is only a problem if you're dealing with a group that won't respond well to "don't be a @#$!". And if they won't abide by that simple rule, why are you playing with them anyway?

[Sahe]

I don't really see the point you're trying to achieve.

But...

Plenty ideas have been shown already regarding builds (Lucky Halfing Divination Wiz/Lore Bard, Moon Druid Barbarian, etc.) However you don't have to go that deep into mechanics as others have pointed out just roleplaying certain concepts can be headache for the GM and potentially other players.

Read through the Kenku entry again, then once more and then make a Kenku...any Kenku and roleplay that Character 100%. It will annoy everyone at the table (including you) at the very latest at Session 2, with the exception of that one guy or gal that finds it hilarious. Bonus points for going low Int and Wis and playing the Kenku also as an idiot with poor memory.

[CantigThimble]

Explain, slowly, that an anything goes game is a bad idea because there are some players out there who aren't mature enough to work without restrictions on their choices.

Explain that you are one of these players, and if allowed an anything goes game, you will intentionally wreck it with the most OP disruptive build and character you can, until the GM puts restrictions on you.

At least then the GM will understand what's happening and why from the start of the game, rather than drawing the conclusion that GMing is too hard for him or just a painful, unpleasant process.

Fantastic. :smallbiggrin:

[MaxWilson]

I've known people who run "anything goes" w/rt stats. Instead of mandating rolling or point buy, just show up with whatever stats fit your character concept.

Apparently it does not wreck their games, and works out surprisingly well. In fact, players are loath to show up with super-high stats characters because they can't blame it on the dice.

I've never done it that way but it is a interesting approach.

[R.Shackleford]

No matter the intent, the result will be a beginner DM who got their hard work **** on.

Unless the new DM wants to see what the fuss is about? Seems OP has warned them and the new DM isn't being a wuss about it, but saying "bring it on" to the challenge.

Some people like a trial by fire.

[Unoriginal]

Unless the new DM wants to see what the fuss is about? Seems OP has warned them and the new DM isn't being a wuss about it, but saying "bring it on" to the challenge.

Some people like a trial by fire.

Nothing about OP's posts indicate that it's how the DM took it. OP seems to imply that the DM went "it'll be fine" and OP wants to show them how not fine it's going to be.

Also, are you trying to imply that thinking people should not deliberately try making a person's first DMing more difficult to handle, like I suggested, is being a wuss? Because if you are... whoa.

[R.Shackleford]

Nothing about OP's posts indicate that it's how the DM took it. OP seems to imply that the DM went "it'll be fine" and OP wants to show them how not fine it's going to be.

Also, are you trying to imply that thinking people should not deliberately try making a person's first DMing more difficult to handle, like I suggested, is being a wuss? Because if you are... whoa.

OP warned the newly to be DM, instead of cowering or just giving up, the DM said "bring it on".

Way too many people give up before they try something or they get scared because someone else warns them about something.

Trial by fire, this new DM can come out of this a better DM.

[Unoriginal]

OP warned the newly to be DM, instead of cowering or just giving up, the DM said "bring it on".

No matter how many time to reiterate this, it won't make your unsupported versions of events true.

OP said that the DM "isn't listening", and then said that they're going to "retire the cheese and replace him once he sees that he needs to pay attention to the PC builds and assert a bit of control", aka only after the DM has seen they were "wrong".

At no point OP indicated he told the DM HE was going to purposely make it difficult for the DM.

If it was just a "look at those crazy characters one could build" moment before the session, I'd call it a learning experience. Here, the OP has noted several time he was going to play a character specifically made to show why the DM's idea is bad,



Way too many people give up before they try something or they get scared because someone else warns them about something.

The DM didn't get scared by the warnings, so OP decided he needed to have actual problems for his first session so he learn caution.



Trial by fire

When done on someone who's not aware he's on trial, it's called "getting attacked with fire for unknown reason."

[Reversefigure4]

Hi,
It's not about the class or race, but about the character.

So, create a character who, at the earliest opportunity, screws the party. Stab someone in the back when he's at low hp? Cast an attack cantrip instead of Healing Word? Cast Fireball centered on yourself? Admit to the town guard that you guys did it? So many choices. It might not even be your character's fault, just the voices in his head.
Game ruined.
You told em so.

This is good in-character stuff, but what about out-of-character to really top it off? Show up late without notice. Complain bitterly if the game starts without you. Demand sudden rescheduling of game night for your convenience, then cancel anyway. Bring another uninvited player and demand the GM fit them in immediately (then never bring them back again). Drink heavily as the game goes on. If the GM has a partner, hit on them. Perhaps sprinkle some racist jokes in there too.

[GreyBlack]

When done on someone who's not aware he's on trial, it's called "getting attacked with fire for unknown reason."


This is good in-character stuff, but what about out-of-character to really top it off? Show up late without notice. Complain bitterly if the game starts without you. Demand sudden rescheduling of game night for your convenience, then cancel anyway. Bring another uninvited player and demand the GM fit them in immediately (then never bring them back again). Drink heavily as the game goes on. If the GM has a partner, hit on them. Perhaps sprinkle some racist jokes in there too.

Attack them with literal fire?

[BoringInfoGuy]

So, what exactly does “Anything Goes” actually mean? It sounds like simply ignoring the PHB +1 rule used in AL games. Which could lead to balance problems, but there was no such restriction in 3.5, and games managed to run well despite that.

But to get to the meat of the matter, new DM’s need support, not object lessons. I’ve played D&D for a long time, and I’ve found new DMs can be both fun and frustrating to play with. As a player, you still have a responsibility to help make the game fun for everyone. The best way to do that with a new DM is to let them find their own DM style. No two DM’s have the exact same style, so what works for one DM may not work for another.

Let your DM find their own voice, and find out what works for them without deliberately sabotaging anything that doesn’t fit YOUR style.

Object lessons suck. Imagine if your group found out what you were up to and decided to give you your own lesson? You sit down and find that creatures always target you with their big attacks, and always make their saving throws against you. Your fellow players can’t seem to use an AOE without including you in the Area of Effect. The healer always has something more important to worry about this round than your HP.

Be honest, wouldn’t this sort of thing tick you off? Would you honestly go “This object lesson opened my eyes and I will modify my behavior accordingly”.

Most likely you would think everyone else was being a jerk.

Don’t be a jerk.

[Erys]

The OPs idea seems like a good way to lose a DM, and maybe even a friend.

Not cool.

[MilkmanDanimal]

I don't think there are any builds in 5e that are downright broken or inherently abusive; it's one of the things I like about the system. 3.5, sure, but 5e is really well-balanced. Coffeelock, maybe, but that's more annoying than broken.

At my table, anything does go. There are no banned feats, subclasses, or anything else. No UA, no homebrew, just out-of-the-box rules, and literally nothing bad happens at all. It's all fine.

[Damon_Tor]

Ok, so a player wants to take a stab at DMing my table. I warned him against anything goes characters but he isn't listening.

Here's the challenge- without homebrew/UA and no flying, what character is most likely to give the DM a headache? I'd like it to kind of slow roll, and I'm feeling hexblade if possible

"I trust you guys not be *******s."
"I'LL SHOW YOU!"