Game-breaking? - Infinite (limited) Wildshape

[Malapterus]

So here's the idea; a magic cloak made of the hide of some beast, or possibly made to look like the hide of some beast if you;re not comfortable wearing a mutilated animal. This is a possiblility, as this item is for Druids.

While wearing the cloak, you can Wildshape without using up one of your daily Wildshape uses. The catch is, you can only use this ability to turn into the animal the cloak is made of/imitates.

You have to, of course, not only be able to Wildshape, but be high enough level to Wildshape into that animal.

As a bonus, as you level up you are free to Wildshape into an advanced higher hit-die version of that animal, but again, this is all based on the class, not the item.

Is a free all-day ticket to a single animal going to make a Druid overpowered? I don't expect they're going to have a suitcase full of different things, just the one - I might need to make the price reflect that.

The character that is going to have this is an evil NPC, a Drow who may be halg aquatic elf & comes from the land of the ice & snow from the midnight sun where the hot springs flow; she'll have a slight class mod that lets her spontaneously cast from a list of ice spells instead of spontaneously casting Summon Nature's Ally. Her cloak would be of a leopard seal; the smart shark that can follow you home!

p.s. she's a Drow because the whole evil party is Drow.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can gain infinite wild shape for +1 LA (divine minion template), and +1 LA can be bought off at level 3 for 3,000 xp. Just multiply that xp by x5 to get the number of gp it's (approximately) worth (15,000 gp), and voila.

Of course, that's just for low HD animals...

[ericgrau]

Doesn't seem OP to me because druids rarely run out of wildshape anyway. The only worry is if he used an item to spam 90 different forms for various tricks, but your item can't do that so looks good. One other minor source of abuse is spamming wildshape for unlimited healing. I'd remove the healing part of wildshape for the item. It's not the worst thing, but it should add a cost that's a waste for druids who don't want that feature. And those who want the mid-combat healing can burn one of their actual wildshape uses. They will still probably have plenty leftover.

[Troacctid]

I'd be most concerned by the unlimited healing, since you heal every time you shift. Once you hit mid-levels, you can already stay in the same form all day thanks to the hours/level duration of wild shape (and Natural Spell).

[Malapterus]

There we go, the infinite healing was something I was missing

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Given how cheap and easy a wand of lesser vigor is to use, I wouldn't say the unlimited healing is too much of an issue. Give the item an attunement period and it becomes self-only healing, and if you limit it to druids (or to Neutral alignments or to followers of certain nature deities) and forcibly end other wild shape effects the wearer is already under, it's really not bad at all.

Remember, wasting actions in combat is anathema, so you'll rarely ever want to use the item for in-combat healing, and out-of-combat healing is so cheap already that it's basically a non-issue.

[weckar]

You can't just say lesser vigor to everything. Like with this custom item, availability of such a wand is up to the DM.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can't just say lesser vigor to everything. Like with this custom item, availability of such a wand is up to the DM.If either Spell Compendium or Complete Divine is in play, the DM needs to explicitly ban the spell to make it unavailable. (Also see: Crafting.)

Also, wands of cure light wounds aren't much more expensive per hp healed.

[Troacctid]

More importantly, you don't want to just add extra power to an item by accident. An at-will healing item might be balanced, but that doesn't mean the effect should be stapled onto an unrelated item, driving up the cost and pulling focus from the intended use.

[Gnaeus]

Also, I don’t see how shifting back and forth to leopard seal really helps much on an optimization scale. What does it give? Scent and a swim speed and a meh bite attack.

If it wildshaped you into a desmodu bat or fleshraker I might look at it harder.

[ericgrau]

Given how cheap and easy a wand of lesser vigor is to use, I wouldn't say the unlimited healing is too much of an issue. Give the item an attunement period and it becomes self-only healing, and if you limit it to druids (or to Neutral alignments or to followers of certain nature deities) and forcibly end other wild shape effects the wearer is already under, it's really not bad at all.

Remember, wasting actions in combat is anathema, so you'll rarely ever want to use the item for in-combat healing, and out-of-combat healing is so cheap already that it's basically a non-issue.

Unlimited healing is highly abusable among NPCs though. This unlimited healing is druid 5+ only so it solves that.

The issue is that unlimited healing is still worth a few thousand gp though which could needlessly increase the cost of the item for those who just want the wildshape. It's not campaign ending so much as something you'll want to take out so you can lower the price on this item. I mean the item itself might only be worth a few thousand gp without the unlimited healing. No need to double or nearly double its price for a side feature. The ones who might abuse it the most are low level druids who have a small budget. A few thousand gp is a lot for them. High level druids will get little value out of the item, but it's still mildly useful and cool for a thematic build. So, still a few thousand gp is a fair price.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Unlimited healing is highly abusable among NPCs though. This unlimited healing is druid 5+ only so it solves that.

The issue is that unlimited healing is still worth a few thousand gp though which could needlessly increase the cost of the item for those who just want the wildshape. It's not campaign ending so much as something you'll want to take out so you can lower the price on this item. I mean the item itself might only be worth a few thousand gp without the unlimited healing. No need to double or nearly double its price for a side feature. The ones who might abuse it the most are low level druids who have a small budget. A few thousand gp is a lot for them. High level druids will get little value out of the item, but it's still mildly useful and cool for a thematic build. So, still a few thousand gp is a fair price.So you're advocating a massive price reduction for an unlimited wild shape use item without the standard "heals user" effect?

[Crake]

So this is basically a polymorph at will item, of a CL high enough to suit the creature to be changed into, and only works for characters with wildshaping levels equal to or greater than the CL of the item.

Skin of the proteus does at-will metamorphosis at CL7 for 84k (this includes the built in infinite healing as well), but with the restrictions in place, it would warrant the 30% reduction for requiring a specific class or race. Keep in mind however, that since it does not require the user to expend anything, a character with UMD could also use it.

The final cost using those numbers would be 8,400gp * HD of the form to be changed into, but this would include the infinite healing of the form changing. I would probably give it a minimum cost of 5HD, since that is the minimum druid level required to have wild shape, and it prevents you from making a super cheap 8,400gp item for a 1HD form that you can exploit for cheap healing.

[eggynack]

Also, I don’t see how shifting back and forth to leopard seal really helps much on an optimization scale. What does it give? Scent and a swim speed and a meh bite attack.

If it wildshaped you into a desmodu bat or fleshraker I might look at it harder.
Yeah, that's my thinking on it too. I'd figure bat over fleshraker, because rapidly swapping into and then out of a combat form strikes me as more interesting than rapidly swapping into and then out of a utility form. Grants pretty strong spontaneous access to the full suite of combat forms without any risk of using up all your wild shape. Kinda cool trick. Seems a lot weaker with any sort of form adding feat, cause it's often unclear why you'd leave the universe of those additional forms for this arbitrary animal. It's a good fallback, I suppose.

[Malapterus]

Also, I don’t see how shifting back and forth to leopard seal really helps much on an optimization scale. What does it give? Scent and a swim speed and a meh bite attack.

If it wildshaped you into a desmodu bat or fleshraker I might look at it harder.

For this NPC it's not really about optimization. It's flavor; just as our benefactor has called the greatest individuals from across her kingdom, the enemy has called the greatest of his own from across the globe to oppose them.

I mean, it's actually the other way around because he sent his guys out first, but still, it doesn't count because they are the bad guys.

She was an agent operating up in the frozen north and so being able to turn into a leopard seal at will was pretty useful, and she by now probably has some skills and abilities devoted to using in that form, so she's not making a new cloak unless it becomes an issue.

Anyway!

Thanks to everyone who chimed in, you are all great.

[Gnaeus]

For this NPC it's not really about optimization. It's flavor; just as our benefactor has called the greatest individuals from across her kingdom, the enemy has called the greatest of his own from across the globe to oppose them.

I mean, it's actually the other way around because he sent his guys out first, but still, it doesn't count because they are the bad guys.

She was an agent operating up in the frozen north and so being able to turn into a leopard seal at will was pretty useful, and she by now probably has some skills and abilities devoted to using in that form, so she's not making a new cloak unless it becomes an issue.

Anyway!

Thanks to everyone who chimed in, you are all great.

A lovely and completely irrelevant story.

Q: is it gamebreaking
A: no. It isn’t even particularly powerful.
Response: the owner doesn’t care that it isn’t powerful.

Your question is answered. Why she made the seal cape doesn’t matter. It only becomes an issue if you let the PCs get it, study it, and make a cloak of Dire Tiger shape.

[heavyfuel]

+1 LA can be bought off at level 3 for 3,000 xp

That's a very bold statement considering LA Buyoff is a variant rule

[ericgrau]

So you're advocating a massive price reduction for an unlimited wild shape use item without the standard "heals user" effect?

From a few thousand gp x 2 to a few thousand gp, sure. Without the at will healing the effect is so weak that the at will healing is comporable to it. That's around half the item's value right there. Which sucks for druids who only want the item to stay in a form and don't want/need the at-will healing. Most druids can stay wildshaped all day without the item. Those that can't have very low budgets. It's not very useful for much besides fluff. It should be priced accordingly.

The magic item pricing guidelines are just guidelines to help figure out a fair price. They aren't rules, they're only a starting point. If the item is actually far stronger or far weaker than that starting point, the DM must adjust accordingly. In this case a fair price is much lower because you can't get anywhere near the usefulness of the related spell.

Anyway I'm gonna peg it at 4,000 gp without the at-will healing. And that's to be conservative; I'd 100% understand arguments for a lower price. You'd have to be at least level 7 to consider paying that much for a minor item, and at level 7+ it's not especially useful. Maybe 2,000 gp is better if you want to see it get used slightly more often. Sure the price doesn't matter for the NPC, but I mean in case PCs want to try to get the same flavor points too.

[Crake]

From a few thousand gp x 2 to a few thousand gp, sure. Without the at will healing the effect is so weak that the at will healing is comporable to it. That's around half the item's value right there. Which sucks for druids who only want the item to stay in a form and don't want/need the at-will healing. Most druids can stay wildshaped all day without the item. Those that can't have very low budgets. It's not very useful for much besides fluff. It should be priced accordingly.

The magic item pricing guidelines are just guidelines to help figure out a fair price. They aren't rules, they're only a starting point. If the item is actually far stronger or far weaker than that starting point, the DM must adjust accordingly. In this case a fair price is much lower because you can't get anywhere near the usefulness of the related spell.

Anyway I'm gonna peg it at 4,000 gp without the at-will healing. And that's to be conservative; I'd 100% understand arguments for a lower price. You'd have to be at least level 7 to consider paying that much for a minor item, and at level 7+ it's not especially useful. Maybe 2,000 gp is better if you want to see it get used slightly more often. Sure the price doesn't matter for the NPC, but I mean in case PCs want to try to get the same flavor points too.

Keep in mind that being in wild shape all day every day isn't necessarily practical. If you need to communicate with your party, more often than not you'll have to actually un-wildshape, which will probably make you lose giant chunks of hours, unless you dip into master of many forms to be able to speak while wildshaped.

Being able to jump in and out of wild shape at will isn't a purely combat numbers buff, but it IS a pretty significant utility buff.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Keep in mind that being in wild shape all day every day isn't necessarily practical. If you need to communicate with your party, more often than not you'll have to actually un-wildshape, which will probably make you lose giant chunks of hours, unless you dip into master of many forms to be able to speak while wildshaped.

Being able to jump in and out of wild shape at will isn't a purely combat numbers buff, but it IS a pretty significant utility buff.A pearl of speech (MIC) is a cheap and easy way to speak while wild shaped. And gloves of man (A&EG) are less cheap and less easy, but they grant hands in any form with arm-like limbs.

[ericgrau]

Being able to jump in and out of wild shape at will isn't a purely combat numbers buff, but it IS a pretty significant utility buff.
You'd get way more utility if the item allowed more than 1 form. Not speaking is a little annoying. There are ways around it including MaxiDuRaritry's tricks, ally with speak wtih animals, pre-determined signalling system, telepathic bond, etc., etc. And I said it was not very useful, not useless. The cloak is worth something, it's just not worth a lot.