Odd Group

[carrdrivesyou]

So I just joined a campaign and our team seems a bit weird. We have a cavalier fighter, a monster slayer ranger, a college of lore bard, and my diviner wizard.

Are there any major holes or weaknesses presented by this party?

[Toadkiller]

I wouldn’t worry about it. As long as everyone has fun you are winning.

[Pelle]

Looks like a standard D&D party to me.

[nickl_2000]

Honestly nothing that really jumps out, you have a decent range.

You have in combat:
tank in the fighter,
scout and healer in the ranger,
healer and battlefield control in the bard.
Blaster and control in the wizard

In Social
nature covered in Ranger
Charisma and charm covered in bard
scrying and utility covered in the wizard.


I guess it would be nice to have a high powered melee damager in a Paladin or Rogue, but really you should be perfectly fine.

[Vogie]

Right now the only healer is the Lore Bard & Monster Slayer Ranger, and neither of them may be thrilled with that.

In that group, I'd probably be a Frontline or Blaster Cleric (Arcane, Death, Forge or War), a Celestial Warlock or Dream Druid - Those subclasses that give you the ability to heal, without being directly focused on healing.

[Trustypeaches]

Right now the only healer is the Lore Bard & Monster Slayer Ranger, and neither of them may be thrilled with that.

In that group, I'd probably be a Frontline or Blaster Cleric (Arcane, Death, Forge or War), a Celestial Warlock or Dream Druid - Those subclasses that give you the ability to heal, without being directly focused on healing.It’s not like every group requires a “healer”. That role has been all but phased out in 5e honestly.

A bard throwing healing word around should be sufficient.

[carrdrivesyou]

As far as I can tell, the fighter is a pretty standard two hand build; the bard chose spells focused on healing and buffs, the ranger didn't optimize I don't think, and my wizard took mostly utility spells, see below:

0th: At Will
1. Shape Water
2. Toll the Dead
3. Minor Illusion
1st: 4/day
1. Alarm
2. Charm Person
3. Shield
4. Detect Magic
5. Mage Armor
6. Grease
7. Burning Hands
8. Comprehend Languages
2nd: 2/day
1. Flaming Sphere
2. Levitate

Thoughts?

[Vogie]

It’s not like every group requires a “healer”. That role has been all but phased out in 5e honestly.

A bard throwing healing word around should be sufficient.

If there weren't Grave & Life Clerics as options, you'd be right.

But there are, and as I wrote, the Bard may not actually want to throw a healing word around, nor is a Ranger guaranteed to want to use up one of their spell slots to make goodberrys or toss out a healing spirit (if that spell is even allowed).


As far as I can tell, the fighter is a pretty standard two hand build; the bard chose spells focused on healing and buffs, the ranger didn't optimize I don't think, and my wizard took mostly utility spells

In that case, then you can just pick your favorite damage dealer. If the Ranger is melee or ranged, choose the opposite.

[DarkKnightJin]

I'm playing at 2 tables. One table, I'm playing an EK/Warlock. In a party with a Tempest Cleric that can't really tank as much as she'd like, a Ranger that's been trying to train his Direwolf, a Warlock that's thinks he's people in a Human-based world. And finally, a Wizard that's been out of touch with the world for a century. Pretty eclectic group.

The other table is a Warlock that's been whammied by an Archfey into finding something for her. Then we have a Halfling that's drunk half the time. More if he can help it.
And then there's my Dragonborn Death Cleric. Who won't waste a single alot on healing you of you're not in the process of bleeding out.

So.. a D&D party is going to be a bit off the wall under the best of circumstances.

[Unoriginal]

So I just joined a campaign and our team seems a bit weird. We have a cavalier fighter, a monster slayer ranger, a college of lore bard, and my diviner wizard.

Are there any major holes or weaknesses presented by this party?

Don't see anything odd with it.

Unless if you're playing Out of the Abyss.

[Willie the Duck]

Thoughts?

That I have no idea what you think the odd part is.

As to suggestions, I guess I'd find out what skills people have. A utility wizard might really need to have Levitate and Mold Water... or they might need Knock and Mold Earth... or Spider Climb might be a better 2nd level choice (since no one can climb worth a damn, and Spider Climb might solve 3 situations in an hour, while Levitate will solve one and expire). Also try to pick up as many ritual spells as you can. Being able to make everyone breath water, decipher languages, and the like without using a memorization slot is a key wizard advantage.


If there weren't Grave & Life Clerics as options, you'd be right.

But there are, and as I wrote, the Bard may not actually want to throw a healing word around, nor is a Ranger guaranteed to want to use up one of their spell slots to make goodberrys or toss out a healing spirit (if that spell is even allowed).

I think the point is that you do not need a healer anymore, unlike previous editions where natural healing was too slow to meaningfully keep one adventuring.

[Man_Over_Game]

Right now the only healer is the Lore Bard & Monster Slayer Ranger, and neither of them may be thrilled with that.

In that group, I'd probably be a Frontline or Blaster Cleric (Arcane, Death, Forge or War), a Celestial Warlock or Dream Druid - Those subclasses that give you the ability to heal, without being directly focused on healing.

You're spot on, Vogie. This was the first thing I saw.


[...]
I think the point is that you do not need a healer anymore, unlike previous editions where natural healing was too slow to meaningfully keep one adventuring.

It's not necessarily about healing to full, it's about easily coming back from the Dying condition without wasting actions on failed Medicine checks that won't put them back into fighting condition.

Low level damage is brutal. I'm level 3 and we've already had 2 fatalities (one that got reconned and the other that was resurrected for free since it was part of a sponsored mission). Not because the DM is overly brutal, but just because that's what happens when you have 12 Con and the bad guy has a Great Axe.

Generally, I recommend 1 healer per 3-4 characters. If these guys had a paladin, I wouldn't be so worried, but getting knocked out is going to be a major concern until they have healing potions up the wazoo.

I'd actually recommend someone get the Healer feat. There may be a circumstance where the Bard is out of level 1 slots, and without him and unless the Ranger is constantly having Goodberries prepared, there're not many other options. 5 people relying on their sole utility monkey to save level 1 slots to keep everyone alive is a really bad plan. Either he can't use those level 1 slots for other things (like Fog Cloud or Disguise Self), or he does and you guys take 1-2 losses before you learn from your mistakes.

[tchntm43]

This is virtually identical to my group. Dwarven fighter, Tiefling ranger, Human bard, Human wizard. Bard provides Heal Wounds for the party, and I've jacked up the occurrence of Healing Potions a little bit to compensate for that being the only healing. It worked pretty well for the first adventure, aside from noticeable lack of anyone skilled in picking locks.

[Bel-Torac]

You have a good group.

[JakOfAllTirades]

So far, I don't see anything odd about your group, but we haven't got to their races and backgrounds yet.

Keep going....

[Finger6842]

Sounds like a great group to me, fun to play. With Song of Rest, If your Bard picks up Aura of Vitality with Additional Magical Secrets, the heals will be sufficient most of the time.

[Speely]

Your group looks good, tbh. In my experience, all your Bard needs is Healing Word and the 2 Restorations as far as healing goes.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Your group looks good, tbh. In my experience, all your Bard needs is Healing Word and the 2 Restorations as far as healing goes.

It's also nice for someone in the group to have a Revivify in their back pocket, just in case.

[Speely]

It's also nice for someone in the group to have a Revivify in their back pocket, just in case.

Funny you say that. Revivify is kind of an anathema for me. I think it's more interesting to have dead mean "dead" and see how the party deals with it. This spell sort of trivializes it.

Don't get me wrong... I am ok with it being a spell that can be taken. I just never take it because I prefer the drama of death over the convenience of death's reversal.

[MaxWilson]

If there weren't Grave & Life Clerics as options, you'd be right.

Neither of which is even close to being the best healer.

[Speely]

Neither of which is even close to being the best healer.

Whoa. Elaborate, please.

Edit: "neither of which is close" seems a bit extreme, even given outliers.

[Trustypeaches]

Whoa. Elaborate, please.

Edit: "neither of which is close" seems a bit extreme, even given outliers.Well a pure life or grave cleric isn't the best healer, at least not for most of the level range.

Something like Circle of the Shepard / Dreams druid with a 1 level Life Cleric dip will beat out pure Life Clerics with Healing Spirit and Goodberry easily. A Lore Bard can do something similar by picking up Aura of Vitality and Healing Spirit early on.

[Galithar]

Well a pure life or grave cleric isn't the best healer, at least not for most of the level range.

Something like Circle of the Shepard / Dreams druid with a 1 level Life Cleric dip will beat out pure Life Clerics with Healing Spirit and Goodberry easily. A Lore Bard can do something similar by picking up Aura of Vitality and Healing Spirit early on.

That's actually using the Life cleric feature to create the high heals, so a life cleric with a druid dip for healing Spirit is a superior healer every day. Now they may not (unless the druid is unoptimized and the cleric is optimized heavily) deal as much damage, but they will certainly heal more.

[carrdrivesyou]

The fighter and my wizard are both humans. The bard is a tiefling (dispater subtype), and the ranger is a half-elf.

I think the bard is focused on healing and plans on taking the restorations. Although I am not sure if they are going to use their magical secrets fro revivify. I've never been under this DM before so I have no idea how he handles character deaths. He hasn't said anything on the subject honestly.