Heal My Achey Snakey Heart

[LoyalPaladin]

So I'm working up a character concept for a D&D game I'll be playing in soon(ish) and come across an awesome picture of a Medusa/Gorgon/Lamia sort of creature that I'm totally in on playing. Here's the catch: Medusa aren't playable, Gorgons are cows in D&D, and Lamias are apparently Lions-taurs. The game is 15th level and high opt, does anyone have a humany-snake race that fits the picture below? I'm honestly at a loss. The Yuan-Ti just aren't cutting it for this paladin.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f6/d0/a2/f6d0a2a88dab1af781d083eb50aa8def.jpg

[OgresAreCute]

Oriental Adventures has several different snake people listed under "Shinomen Naga". They were all given level adjustments in the 3.5 update for that book which was printed in (I believe) Dragon #318.

The LA-assignment thread on this very forum did evaluate and give an LA to Medusas (and Gorgons if you want to be an iron cow) if you're cool with using houserules/homebrew.

[Sto]

There is a monster progression for Medusa in Savage species if you can use that.

[LoyalPaladin]

Oriental Adventures has several different snake people listed under "Shinomen Naga". They were all given level adjustments in the 3.5 update for that book which was printed in (I believe) Dragon #318.

The LA-assignment thread on this very forum did evaluate and give an LA to Medusas (and Gorgons if you want to be an iron cow) if you're cool with using houserules/homebrew.
I'm pulling up the Dragon Mag. as we speak. Hoping it's got some decent stats! Thanks!

Homebrew is probably going to be outlawed at the table, unfortunately.


There is a monster progression for Medusa in Savage species if you can use that.
I'll take a look at that. Medusa is not the great snakey warrior I was hoping for.

[Crake]

Let me make your day by saying: Medusas are infact playable.

Despite not having LA in the monster manual, savage species has a monster class for them, 10 levels, with 6HD, giving them, effectively, an LA of 4. Combine that with the tauric creature template and a constrictor snake, politely asking the DM to waive the requirement for the base animal to have 4 legs, then you have your Medusa/Lamia/Gorgon snake lady.

She WILL have 9HD, and 4LA though, so starting off at ECL13, which is pretty rough, meaning you'll only have 2 actual levels, and won't be particularly powerful, which sounds like it'll be a problem for your high OP table (though in my experience, many "high OP" tables tend to be more mid OP, or even low-OP, I don't know what kinds of tricks you normally expect at your table).

The final stats for the race would be:

Medium Size, Monstrous Humanoid type
+6 str
+6 dex
+2 con
+2 int
+2 wis
+4 cha
9d8 monstrous Humanoid HD (9 bab, +3 fort, +6 reflex/will, 12*(2+int) skill points, 4 feats)
+3 Natural Armor
Petrifying Gaze (DC10+1/2HD+cha mod)
Poison (1d6/2d6 str, DC10+1/2HD+con mod)
Constrict 1d3+1.5* str
Snakes natural attack 1d4+1.5 * str plus poison
Darkvision 60ft
Scent
+4 spot/listen/hide
20ft move/swim/climb (also gives +8 swim/climb checks, and ability to take 10 even when threatened/distracted)

[LoyalPaladin]

Let me make your day by saying: Medusas are infact playable.

Despite not having LA in the monster manual, savage species has a monster class for them, 10 levels, with 6HD, giving them, effectively, an LA of 4. Combine that with the tauric creature template and a constrictor snake, politely asking the DM to waive the requirement for the base animal to have 4 legs, then you have your Medusa/Lamia/Gorgon snake lady.

She WILL have 9HD, and 4LA though, so starting off at ECL13, which is pretty rough, meaning you'll only have 2 actual levels, and won't be particularly powerful, which sounds like it'll be a problem for your high OP table (though in my experience, many "high OP" tables tend to be more mid OP, or even low-OP, I don't know what kinds of tricks you normally expect at your table).
This is so cool! My DM is allowing a flat 2 LA reduction without the ability to buyoff further until Epic. So 2 LA and 6 HD isn't terrible, but it isn't great either...

I wonder what the best build for a snakey lady would be. Thank you so much for this, it gives me something to toy with!

[mabriss lethe]

You could also use the lycanthrope template or template class using a viper as a base creature (less hd in each size category than constrictors if you opt for the template vs. The class.) 2 levels in the template class would give you hybrid form without the need for the animal HD added to your build. If that isn't viable at the table, use the standard acquired lycanthrope at +2 LA and use a small viper as the base, so only one animal is added to your build.

[LoyalPaladin]

Oriental Adventures has several different snake people listed under "Shinomen Naga". They were all given level adjustments in the 3.5 update for that book which was printed in (I believe) Dragon #318.
Just to keep my options open here, it looks like the Shinomen Naga (Asp) has the following stats:

Naga, Shinomen, Asp

Abilities: +4 STR, -2 DEX, +6 CON, -2 CHA
Large size
Telepathy (30ft): If one naga within 30ft isn't flank, no nagas are. No naga in a group is flanked unless all are.
+2 Climb, Listen, and Spot
Racial Feat: Power Attack(?)
Natural Armor +4
Poison (Ex): 1d6/1d6 temporary con damage, CON based DC.
Taint Immunity (Ex)
Alternate Form (Su): Only if Female.
+2 LA

[OgresAreCute]

Just to keep my options open here, it looks like the Shinomen Naga (Asp) has the following stats:

Naga, Shinomen, Asp

Abilities: +4 STR, -2 DEX, +6 CON, -2 CHA
Large size
Telepathy (30ft): If one naga within 30ft isn't flank, no nagas are. No naga in a group is flanked unless all are.
+2 Climb, Listen, and Spot
Racial Feat: Power Attack(?)
Natural Armor +4
Poison (Ex): 1d6/1d6 temporary con damage, CON based DC.
Taint Immunity (Ex)
Alternate Form (Su): Only if Female.
+2 LA


Power attack isn't a bonus feat, it has 2 feats by virtue of having 3 RHD (which you forgot to include).

[LoyalPaladin]

Power attack isn't a bonus feat, it has 2 feats by virtue of having 3 RHD (which you forgot to include).
Ouch. 3 RHD hurts. I didn't catch that. So we're actually looking at this:

Naga, Shinomen, Asp

Abilities: +4 STR, -2 DEX, +6 CON, -2 CHA
Large size
Telepathy (30ft): If one naga within 30ft isn't flank, no nagas are. No naga in a group is flanked unless all are.
Racial Hit Die: An Asp Shinomen Naga begins with three levels of monstrous humanoid.
+2 Climb, Listen, and Spot
Natural Armor +4
Poison (Ex): 1d6/1d6 temporary con damage, CON based DC.
Taint Immunity (Ex)
Alternate Form (Su): Only if Female.
+2 LA

[Andor13]

I wonder what the best build for a snakey lady would be. Thank you so much for this, it gives me something to toy with!

I'd say maybe a Crusader? It would suit the look, and 1/2 her racial HD would count for Initiator levels allowing her to start off with better maneuvers.

[LoyalPaladin]

I'd say maybe a Crusader? It would suit the look, and 1/2 her racial HD would count for Initiator levels allowing her to start off with better maneuvers.
Ruby Knight Vindicator would probably be awesome for that. I'm leaning more to the heavy Medusa/Tauric than the Naga side of the table right now, but not too heavily. I just like the gaze attack and alternate form is easy to snag if I wanted it. However the Naga is large...

[OgresAreCute]

Ruby Knight Vindicator would probably be awesome for that. I'm leaning more to the heavy Medusa/Tauric than the Naga side of the table right now, but not too heavily. I just like the gaze attack and alternate form is easy to snag if I wanted it. However the Naga is large...

If you want to dodge some RHD/LA you can just make the humanoid part of the taur a normal humanoid instead of a medusa. You still get a naga-thing that way (though with no snake hair or petrification)

[ExLibrisMortis]

The anthropomorphic giant constrictor is a pretty close match anatomically below the hairline, so to speak. Large, 3d8 HD, +1 LA, stat mods +6/+8/–2/+0/+4/–4, full base attack and two good saves (monstrous humanoid is nice like that, though skills suck), climb speed, Improved Grab and Constrict. Throw on the medusa's main abilities (Petrifying Gaze and Poison) for another +1 LA, refluff for snake hair (which doesn't even get you a Spot/Listen/All-Around Vision bonus, for some reason), and you're done.

The biggest downside is that you have stat penalties to the key ability scores for the medusa's main abilities, so you might want to ask your DM for up to +4 con/+8 cha (difference between anthro giant constrictor and medusa in those scores) replacing some of the dex/wis (not all of it, as you have some big penalties, too--compared to a scaled-up human, you have -2 str/+10 dex/-6 con/+4 wis/-4 cha).

A wisdom boost works well for a Ruby Knight Vindicator, of course, with the cleric casting and all. Good BFC with that guisarme, too (there are hooks on it, it's a guisarme).

[Crake]

If you want to dodge some RHD/LA you can just make the humanoid part of the taur a normal humanoid instead of a medusa. You still get a naga-thing that way (though with no snake hair or petrification)

From the sounds of things, that part is somewhat essential to it all. You're not REALLY a medusa/gorgon without the snake hair and petrification.

Crusader is definitely a good fit, especially with the bit of cha synergy with their cha to will saves, and the 9 RHD mixing with initiator levels. It might be worth snagging a single level in something else, just to round the initiator level up to 5, otherwise you're sitting on a half level that's doing you no good. A level in marshal can help add a bit more cha synergy, or fighter for a bonus feat if you need. Cleric can help give you a more religious-y feel, and barbarian gives you fast movement, upping that 20 land speed up to 30, plus giving you rage once/day for that occasional moment when you might need a boost, plus the extra rage feat triples that up to 3/day.

That said, you mentioned ruby knight vindicator, so cleric is probably the way to go. You could go RHD9/Cleric 1/Crusader 1/RKV2/LA2 which would give you an initiator level of 8, 2 domains, cleric casting of 2 (not great, but it'll get better with RKV). It's not the BEST build, but forcing all enemies within 30ft to save every round vs petrification is bound to work out in your favour (allies can just avert their gazes)

[martixy]

In my (admittedly gestalt) game I made this glorious gal a Mailman/Jade Phoenix Mage. She is called "The Golden Lady" and is one my favourite NPCs just because of that image. Also has the Membranous Wings and all the Magic of Eberron fire-based elemental grafts, because fork it if I don't like my monstrous characters extra monstrous.
So her gaze both turns you to stone and sets you on fire!

[unseenmage]

Hmmm, anthropomorphic giant snake plus symbiotic template to glue a little snake swarm to your head?

From there you could use spells/items to petrify as needed.

[Andor13]

I mean, if what you want most is a character who looks like the posted image, you don't need the medusa/gorgon's petrifying gaze, just snake hair. And without a game effect that's just fluff. So you could go the naga route and simply describe her as having snake hair.

Up to you and your GM of course.

https://pics.me.me/rasec-wizzlbang-wakes-up-in-a-cold-sweat-r-reverse-medusa-35651583.png

[Andor13]

Oh, I just remembered one. There is a similar race in DSP Bloodforge, if you think you can talk you GM into allowing a 3rd party Pathfinder race into the game. They are a weird naga/elf crossbreed. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/dreamscarred-press/sthein/)

[Menzath]

Instead of being a Medusa (6hd +4adj) that has the tauric template with a large viper (3hd +1adj), you you be a Medusa with the templates reptilian (+2adj) and half-ogre (+1adj).

Overall higher level adjustemnt, but three less racial Hd. The reptilian template does say you gain a tail while keeping your legs, but I'm sure your dm would allow you to lose the legs.
You would take a -2 to int and Cha, but get +6str, +2con +2wis and +4 natural ac.

I'm not sure if the trade off in racial Hd is worth it, but it's another option to look at.

But if you had a way to add snake hair to a person you could switch out being a Medusa for something with less level adjustemnt and racial Hd.

[Zaq]

But if you had a way to add snake hair to a person

Doesn't that feel like it should be a soulmeld? It mean, there obviously isn't a soulmeld (unless there's maybe one in Dragon?) that does exactly that, probably because it's a Totemist-y effect but medusae aren't magical beasts. But still, that feels like the kind of thing a soulmeld would be able to do.

[OgresAreCute]

Doesn't that feel like it should be a soulmeld? It mean, there obviously isn't a soulmeld (unless there's maybe one in Dragon?) that does exactly that, probably because it's a Totemist-y effect but medusae aren't magical beasts. But still, that feels like the kind of thing a soulmeld would be able to do.

For people willing to do some minor homebrew you could just take the Basilisk Mask, change the shape location to Crown instead of Brow and reflavor it as snake hair. Gets you a (kinda mediocre) petrification with the totem bind + snake hair = lots of medusa stuff.