Superb Dispelling: Pointy?

[Kish]

Comparing the description of Superb Dispelling to the description of Mage's Disjunction, it looks like wanting to use Superb Dispelling instead of Mage's Disjunction is a niche circumstance, at best.

Is there something I'm missing?

[flappeercraft]

Comparing the description of Superb Dispelling to the description of Mage's Disjunction, it looks like wanting to use Superb Dispelling instead of Mage's Disjunction is a niche circumstance, at best.

Is there something I'm missing?

Well it doesn't destroy Magic items so it allows you ot use it and actually get loot.

[The_Snark]

Not really, no. Superb Dispelling is just not very well-designed. (Epic spells in general aren't, really, but that's another matter.)

Mage's Disjunction does have disadvantages, mind you: unlike Dispel Magic, it doesn't offer a single-target version, only area-of-effect, and you really don't want to hit your allies with it, which means it can be awkward to use in some fights. And of course, any magic items you destroy are magic items you can't loot.

But really, the only advantage Superb Dispelling offers over regular Dispel/Greater Dispel Magic is the increased cap, which... is not nothing, if you're playing at epic levels? However, Chain Dispel (from PHB2) will get you up to +25. If your CL is higher than that... honestly, I don't know a lot about this level of play, but I feel like there are probably easier ways to boost that cap than using epic spellcasting to do it. Some kind of metamagic sculpting effect on Disjunction, cap-boosting on Greater Dispel, that sort of thing.

[ezekielraiden]

Yeah, remember that mage's disjunction has the following text:
"Even artifacts are subject to disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. Additionally, if an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. (These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish.)

Note: Destroying artifacts is a dangerous business, and it is 95% likely to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection with the device."

So...even if you cast it at the minimum caster level (17th), you're looking at effectively a 1-in-6 (slightly higher, actually) chance per artifact of risking permanent loss of your casting abilities. Even for a Wizard with a fairly high Wisdom and other misc bonuses (say, a total Wisdom saving throw of +20), that's still a 20% chance of permanently losing your spellcasting, per artifact disjoined. It gets complicated to figure out the probability of losing your casting ability for an arbitrary number of artifacts targeted, but even a 3.4% chance (.17*.2 = .034) of permanently and nigh-irrevocably losing your spellcasting ability is dangerous business. Hell, even if it's a 1% per caster level *and then* the artifact has to fail a Will save **and then** you have to fail a DC25 Will save, I'm flat-out not willing to risk literally everything my character can personally do.

For goodness sake, disintegration is easier to fix than having your magical ability negated by mage's disjunction affecting an artifact. And that doesn't even count the 95% chance (0.034*.95 = 0.0323 net) that you additionally awaken the wrath of a deity pissed off by your reckless magic.

Frankly, I would avoid mage's disjunction like the plague. It's not like greater dispel magic is ineffective, and that saves your 9th level slots for something with a 0% chance of ruining your character forever.

[aviary]

For goodness sake, disintegration is easier to fix than having your magical ability negated by mage's disjunction affecting an artifact.

Well, don't leave me hanging... how does one fix a wizard who lost their spells from a mage's disjunction?

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, don't leave me hanging... how does one fix a wizard who lost their spells from a mage's disjunction?

Obtain entirely new spellcasting ability. Use a thought bottle, get a bard to use the song that grants temp HD, drain away all their exp with permanent negative levels, then use the thought bottle to return to their previous level retaking all their classes and getting all the class features anew.

But this is why, if you are going to be breaking artifacts, you make an epic spell storing object and use that with UMD on a character without spellcasting to nail the sucker with disjunction until it breaks. Worse comes to worse the caster does not have spellcasting to lose.

Also, in theory, you could use the retraining rules to adjust your class.

[The_Snark]

Frankly, I would avoid mage's disjunction like the plague. It's not like greater dispel magic is ineffective, and that saves your 9th level slots for something with a 0% chance of ruining your character forever.

I mean... Disjunction is perfectly safe to use as long as there are no artifacts around. They're not exactly common, although I suppose your high-level/epic campaigns may vary on this point.

[Kish]

Yeah, that's..."There might be an artifact anywhere you cast Mage's Disjunction!" is not the kind of thing I was thinking of when I asked if I'd missed something.