I'm terribly sorry that a PC, who had survived for a very long time, died today

[Jon_Dahl]

A dwarf expert 6/horizon walker 8 died today in my game :(

The PCs, meaning the dwarf, a human fighter 2/wizard 8 and a gnoll ranger 10 (a no-spells-no-companion variant), were tasked to bring the heads of four dangerous beasts from the most dangerous part of the kingdom's most dangerous forest. Any large-sized or bigger beast was ok.

The first encounter: The PCs encountered a band of werebears and brown bears fighting against a severely injured battlebriar (150 hp left) who was partly trapped in a pit (which was too small to contain it). The PCs decided to let all the bears die and then they fought against it. I told the PCs repeatedly that the battlebriar was able to strike harder than any creature that they had ever met. Regardless, the dwarf engaged it in melee and was badly wounded before they were able to slay it. The gnoll was also wounded by its Thorn Volley. They couldn't really heal themselves properly, but decided to carry on with the mission.

The second encounter: The PCs startled a 7-HD dire boar and four 15-HD dire boars. The boars rushed at the PCs and the PCs had one round to act freely before the boars were able to get to them. The gnoll was badly wounded by the dire boars, so he decided to climb a tree. The wizard flew high above the ground to see what was going to happen. The dwarf engaged all the boars alone and did a lot of damage. He scored critical hits and used great cleave against the boars and did a lot more than 100 hp damage each round. He even scored 70 points of damage against one of the boars. Then he died. The gnoll tried to grasp the tree with his legs while raining down arrows, but I required a climb check each round since he wasn't using his hands to secure himself. He failed and fell 20 feet. At this point, the wizard cast Fear and all except one boar fled. The remaining boar tried to eat the prone gnoll, but the flying wizard came to pour healing potions down the gnoll's throat. The wizard flew away and cast another Fear to rout the lone boar, but not until the boar had almost killed the gnoll. The wizard tried to give first aid to the gnoll half a dozen times and finally succeeded when the gnoll was down to -8 hp. They slept a couple of nights in a Secure Shelter until they flew away together. They abandoned the mission.

[Mike Miller]

Level 14 PC died? Yea, that'll happen. Raise dead, etc.

[Crake]

Level 14 PC died? Yea, that'll happen. Raise dead, etc.

It's not necessarily that easy in every setting.

[Jon_Dahl]

Level 14 PC died? Yea, that'll happen. Raise dead, etc.

While the ranger was climbing the tree and shooting arrows, the boars ripped the body apart and digested some of it. Now some of the intestines and most of the face are either lost in the woods or eaten.

[Darth Ultron]

Well....by the story....the players did it to themselves.

1.The dwarf does not seem too ''tough" Expert and horizon walker? So he had some skills and...and..and...a +1 to hit creatures in a forest? And yet he was leaping into battle vs big foes?

I'm sure it was a good character and all...and what the player wanted....but note it is not a combat melee character in any way shape or form. And nowhere near the combat level of a 14th level character.

So this character should not really have been ''engaged in melee".

2.So they had no healing? 14th level and heading into the most dangerous part of the kingdom's most dangerous forest...with no healing?

So unless this was a low magic game...they should have had some healing. And IF it is low magic, remember you should adjust things like monster damage for low magic too.

3.They all get wounded or badly wounded and just say ''whatever" and continue?

So...why did they continue?

When your in the most dangerous part of the kingdom's most dangerous forest looking to fight dangerous beasts and loose half your hit points...you don't continue. You stop and rest (or heal).

4.The badly wounded dwarf was just like cool with taking on a whole pack of dire boars?

Well, again, this is a bit of a red flag. When your character is badly wounded, you don't stand and fight all ''Alamo" style. What are the odds of killing five tough foes before your character takes a hit or two.....oh, about Zero.

5.And...well the rest of the group does not sound too ''tough". And there was sure a lack of team work and coordination and even...well...friendliness. Like why did no one give the dwarf any healing potions? And what was with the ''oh no monsters...well bye dwarf buddy, you are on your own!" stunt?

But just note also: Resurrection can still bring the dwarf back.

[Yogibear41]

Why does he have levels in expert and nothing something like ranger?


Sounds like they played dumb, do dumb things at high level you die. Kinda surprised they have made it that far. Also what kind of horizon walker doesn't take the dimension door ability that is like the absolute best thing a horizon walker gets.

[Crake]

Well....by the story....the players did it to themselves.

1.The dwarf does not seem too ''tough" Expert and horizon walker? So he had some skills and...and..and...a +1 to hit creatures in a forest? And yet he was leaping into battle vs big foes?

I'm sure it was a good character and all...and what the player wanted....but note it is not a combat melee character in any way shape or form. And nowhere near the combat level of a 14th level character.

So this character should not really have been ''engaged in melee".

2.So they had no healing? 14th level and heading into the most dangerous part of the kingdom's most dangerous forest...with no healing?

So unless this was a low magic game...they should have had some healing. And IF it is low magic, remember you should adjust things like monster damage for low magic too.

3.They all get wounded or badly wounded and just say ''whatever" and continue?

So...why did they continue?

When your in the most dangerous part of the kingdom's most dangerous forest looking to fight dangerous beasts and loose half your hit points...you don't continue. You stop and rest (or heal).

4.The badly wounded dwarf was just like cool with taking on a whole pack of dire boars?

Well, again, this is a bit of a red flag. When your character is badly wounded, you don't stand and fight all ''Alamo" style. What are the odds of killing five tough foes before your character takes a hit or two.....oh, about Zero.

5.And...well the rest of the group does not sound too ''tough". And there was sure a lack of team work and coordination and even...well...friendliness. Like why did no one give the dwarf any healing potions? And what was with the ''oh no monsters...well bye dwarf buddy, you are on your own!" stunt?

But just note also: Resurrection can still bring the dwarf back.


Level 14 PC died? Yea, that'll happen. Raise dead, etc.


Why does he have levels in expert and nothing something like ranger?


Sounds like they played dumb, do dumb things at high level you die. Kinda surprised they have made it that far. Also what kind of horizon walker doesn't take the dimension door ability that is like the absolute best thing a horizon walker gets.


You guys have excellent bedside manner

This is like going to a funeral and saying "Yeah, bob should have just jumped out of the way of that car that veered onto the pathway and ran him over."

[Mordaedil]

Well....by the story....the players did it to themselves.

1.The dwarf does not seem too ''tough" Expert and horizon walker? So he had some skills and...and..and...a +1 to hit creatures in a forest? And yet he was leaping into battle vs big foes?

I'm sure it was a good character and all...and what the player wanted....but note it is not a combat melee character in any way shape or form. And nowhere near the combat level of a 14th level character.

So this character should not really have been ''engaged in melee".

2.So they had no healing? 14th level and heading into the most dangerous part of the kingdom's most dangerous forest...with no healing?

So unless this was a low magic game...they should have had some healing. And IF it is low magic, remember you should adjust things like monster damage for low magic too.

3.They all get wounded or badly wounded and just say ''whatever" and continue?

So...why did they continue?

When your in the most dangerous part of the kingdom's most dangerous forest looking to fight dangerous beasts and loose half your hit points...you don't continue. You stop and rest (or heal).

4.The badly wounded dwarf was just like cool with taking on a whole pack of dire boars?

Well, again, this is a bit of a red flag. When your character is badly wounded, you don't stand and fight all ''Alamo" style. What are the odds of killing five tough foes before your character takes a hit or two.....oh, about Zero.

5.And...well the rest of the group does not sound too ''tough". And there was sure a lack of team work and coordination and even...well...friendliness. Like why did no one give the dwarf any healing potions? And what was with the ''oh no monsters...well bye dwarf buddy, you are on your own!" stunt?

But just note also: Resurrection can still bring the dwarf back.
Dude. It's called having fun. You should give it a try sometime.

[weckar]

You guys have excellent bedside manner

This is like going to a funeral and saying "Yeah, bob should have just jumped out of the way of that car that veered onto the pathway and ran him over."
Hindsight is 20/200.

[Daefos]

You guys have excellent bedside manner

This is like going to a funeral and saying "Yeah, bob should have just jumped out of the way of that car that veered onto the pathway and ran him over."

I assume that, in this analogy, Bob leaves behind his beloved hobby of venturing as far as possible from medical services and standing in front of speeding cars.

[unseenmage]

You guys have excellent bedside manner

This is like going to a funeral and saying "Yeah, bob should have just jumped out of the way of that car that veered onto the pathway and ran him over."

Except the funeral is in a world with a revolving door afterlife.
Bit less offensive that.

[Darth Ultron]

You guys have excellent bedside manner

My Doctor Idols are Dr. Macoy, Dr. Cox and Dr. House :)



This is like going to a funeral and saying "Yeah, bob should have just jumped out of the way of that car that veered onto the pathway and ran him over.

That is good advice. Also don't walk on pathways near moving traffic.

[bean illus]

I assume that, in this analogy, Bob leaves behind his beloved hobby of venturing as far as possible from medical services and standing in front of speeding cars.

This is the funniest one.


Except the funeral is in a world with a revolving door afterlife.
Bit less offensive that.

So Resurrection is possible, if the Opie desires.
Should we be planning your Resurrection? Or planning your next character?

[unseenmage]

...

So Resurrection is possible, if the Opie desires.
Should we be planning your Resurrection? Or planning your next character?
Both?

Though honestly my own GMs have never used offscreen reanimated/resurrected PCs as much as I ever thought they might.

[denthor]

100 points of damage 70 points of damage. How many rounds before fear was cast the first time? Fly then how many rounds? How many rounds did he fight alone?

I climb a tree. Next round arrows or I wait for 2 rounds? Your unclear.

[Jon_Dahl]

100 points of damage 70 points of damage.

Hum, yes?


How many rounds before fear was cast the first time?

After 6 rounds of combat.


Fly then how many rounds?

After 2 rounds of combat.


How many rounds did he fight alone?

He who?


I climb a tree. Next round arrows or I wait for 2 rounds? Your unclear.

Next round arrows

[denthor]

Round 1 dwarf charge, mage cast fly, gnolls climbs tree.

Round 2 gnolls shoots. Dwarf in combat does. 100 points damage boor dead 70 points boar dead mage does nothing.

Round 3 gnolls shoots falls from tree. Dwarf does what mage does what?

How many boars? Left by 3rd round?

I am wondering how this is your fault if the mage did nothing to help combat for 5 rounds after he she it cast fly.

As a mage right now I have refrained from casting a spell but never to the point (especially 4th level fear spell ) where a character dies. If the dwarf makesor misses the save fine if the beasties miss it fine. Either way the dwarf is out of combat with multiple opponents and if he misses the save he takes some damage and runs. Out of combat. Then the gnolls can smell track.

Not your fault sounds like bad decision by dwarf player. Intentionally hung out to dry by the mage. Who waited way to long to cast a fear spell

[Jon_Dahl]

Round 1 dwarf charge, mage cast fly, gnolls climbs tree.

Round 2 gnolls shoots. Dwarf in combat does. 100 points damage boor dead 70 points boar dead mage does nothing.

Round 3 gnolls shoots falls from tree. Dwarf does what mage does what?

How many boars? Left by 3rd round?

I am wondering how this is your fault if the mage did nothing to help combat for 5 rounds after he she it cast fly.

When round 3 started, all boars were alive but one was severely wounded.

The mage actually cast a few spells but they were so meaningless that they didn't appear in the OP. The mage cast a Spectral Hand followed by a Stoneskin on the dwarf, but it was already a bit late. That was before the two Fear spells. I also recall that he passed his turn at least once. He then helped the gnoll with a healing potion and by fighting one of the boars in melee.

[denthor]

A boar has over 170 hit points? I know they fight past negative but wow. They are deadly.

Edit below.

Ok so a razor boar has 10d15 plus 10 points healing per round no magic weapon 5 points off per blow 127 hit points average 170 in a round still puts it down. A chance to behead you on a nat 20.

One of them should have been down. Your mistake. The rest is your players fault.

[Jon_Dahl]

A boar has over 170 hit points? I know they fight past negative but wow. They are deadly.

Edit below.

Ok so a razor boar has 10d15 plus 10 points healing per round no magic weapon 5 points off per blow 127 hit points average 170 in a round still puts it down. A chance to behead you on a nat 20.

One of them should have been down. Your mistake. The rest is your players fault.

I don't know how to explain what I have written in the OP better and clearer for you, so I guess I'm ok with your hypothesis of a boar having 170 HP, although the actual number was 115.

[weckar]

115 for a boar!? That rivals most full Giants right there. That's well over double what even dire boars usually get.

[Jon_Dahl]

115 for a boar!? That rivals most full Giants right there. That's well over double what even dire boars usually get.

15*4.5+45+3 (toughness) = 115 hp. They were 15 HD dire boars. Unfortunately that was necessary so that the dwarf was able to gain XP from the encounter. Yes, I know that CR 6 isn't enough, but I thought that the advantageous environment made them worth CR 7 so that the dwarf had the possibility to earn more than zero (0, nothing, nada) XP from the encounter.

[Selion]

Something seems wrong about the characters and their play style, i don't want to judge your table because from your words i got the impression you are all experienced players.
I know that they are probably great in roleplaying and i'm not a big fan of over-optimization, but these guys seems to have tuned down too much their choices, maybe the same characters concepts could have been obtained in a more functional way?

[Galacktic]

All of Jon Dahl's players optimize/run at the optimization level of a potato powered computer while using a lemon for a mouse. And I assume the mage is the same person that's played dead and otherwise gotten his party killed multiple times now.

[jdizzlean]

15*4.5+45+3 (toughness) = 115 hp. They were 15 HD dire boars. Unfortunately that was necessary so that the dwarf was able to gain XP from the encounter. Yes, I know that CR 6 isn't enough, but I thought that the advantageous environment made them worth CR 7 so that the dwarf had the possibility to earn more than zero (0, nothing, nada) XP from the encounter.

you know that you can fudge some numbers right?

PC death is sometimes unavoidable, but it's just as much in your hands as theirs more often than naught. A game is give and take between the DM and the PCs, not a one way relationship.

you can simply award xp outright instead of directly based on some odd calculation between cr and party..if that rustles your jimmy, you can factor in RP xp, teamwork xp, etc, it doesn't all have to come from killing things.

plus, you have 2 lvl 10 characters running around w/ a quasi 14th... no mounts? you can buy a hypogriff for like what, 3k? who walks when they don't have to?

what exactly does a no spells/no companion ranger even do besides shoot 800 arrows a day? and how high was the DC you made for him to balance on a branch and shoot... if it was more than 10, you wanted him to die. and if a 10th level ranger can't make a dc 10 balance check, you should probably be talking to your players a bit more often about what exactly they're trying to pull off or expect out of your games.

[denthor]

So be clear.

The boar took 170-115= -55 hit points

We will say it fights into Constitution with a 30 in that stat.

When all is said and counted how is not dead?

115-170 = -55+30= -25 hit points. In real damage and numbers.

[jdizzlean]

So be clear.

The boar took 170-115= -55 hit points

We will say it fights into Constitution with a 30 in that stat.

When all is said and counted how is not dead?

115-170 = -55+30= -25 hit points. In real damage and numbers.

i think that 100, and 70 damage was total damage, not damage done to one target, either way, there were 5 boars, so killing 1 is kinda whoopty doo

[Yogibear41]

You guys have excellent bedside manner

This is like going to a funeral and saying "Yeah, bob should have just jumped out of the way of that car that veered onto the pathway and ran him over."


OP Posted what happened, didn't even ask a question.

The only difference is that in this scenario Bob walked into traffic to face down 5 cars alone that he probably could have just avoided.


On the damage question, the OP said the Expert did over 100 points of damage total to all the boars. With one boar taking 70 points of damage from him.

Basically he did 70 damage to one boar, then 30 damage to another one before he died.

[Saintheart]

All of Jon Dahl's players optimize/run at the optimization level of a potato powered computer while using a lemon for a mouse. And I assume the mage is the same person that's played dead and otherwise gotten his party killed multiple times now.

This. Jon has the honour of running one of the few parties I've ever seen who actually failed to complete Red Hand of Doom*. His campaign journal was mouth-gaping to read when you see the characters they picked and what they all did.





* Excluding those parties who try frontal assaults at Rhest. The TPK count traditionally rises significantly there.

[Mystral]

While the ranger was climbing the tree and shooting arrows, the boars ripped the body apart and digested some of it. Now some of the intestines and most of the face are either lost in the woods or eaten.

So, regenerate too?

[weckar]

This. Jon has the honour of running one of the few parties I've ever seen who actually failed to complete Red Hand of Doom*. His campaign journal was mouth-gaping to read when you see the characters they picked and what they all did.





* Excluding those parties who try frontal assaults at Rhest. The TPK count traditionally rises significantly there.
Links or it didn't happen.

[Saintheart]

Links or it didn't happen.

Enjoy the wonder. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?417731-NO-SPOILERS!-The-doomest-and-red-handest-of-all-RHoD-Campaign-Journals!)

[Mordaedil]

OP Posted what happened, didn't even ask a question.

Not all threads are a question on mechanics. This thread was a character send-off.

[Jon_Dahl]

His next character will be an 11th-level elven monk, lawful neutral. He is having problems with the starting gold - so much money.