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View Full Version : Game breaking? - Skip one prereq



Malapterus
2018-10-28, 09:51 PM
I am sort of re-tiling the bathrooms of various races because I do not think the originals work so well in the wide world of sourcebooks. An attack bonus or armor class against a specific creature, for example, is extremely unreliable when a person can so easily run a campaign without goblinoids and ogres. Also, the idea of half-races having abilities that neither parent race has always miffed me.

For Humans, I wanted to add this:

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Once (or maybe twice depending on how things work out) after character creation, when a Human would normally gain a Feat, they may select a Feat for which they meet all but one prerequisite for.
If this prerequiste is a class, race, attack bonus, skill level, or similar requirement, it is simply ignored.
If this prerequisite is a Feat, and the Human meets all the conditions for the prerequisite feat, then the Human simply gains both feats for the price of one.
If the prerequisite refers to a specific ability used by the feat, the Human does not gain that ability or level of ability if they did not have it already. For example, a Fighter with a Wisdom score of 13 could take Natural Spell if he desired, but it would not grant him any ability to Wildshape. Similarly, he could take Extra Turning, but it would not grant him the ability to turn or rebuke undead and would only affect him if he gained such an ability later.

Note: Being above level 20 is an assumed requirement for any Epic feat, and so a Human of level 20 or lower could only take an Epic feat if he met all the other requirements.

At GM discretion, the Human might be allowed to apply this exemption to the prerequisites for a prestige class.

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As always, I am sure there is something I am missing that would make this horribly broken. There are some Epic feats a person might squeeze into, but they're not very good - Bonus Domain at level 17 doesn't seem huge and Great Strength doesn't seem like a good use of a Feat at any level, the worst one at a glance is Epic Speed.

You could get a jump on item creation feats, but I don't think a character is going to have the time and money to screw around with that sort of thing until they reach the appropriate level anyway.

That said, I am sure there are a few of the 2000-or-so Feats out there that I do not know of that have some weird prereq & being able to ignore it would be a huge advantage.

Goaty14
2018-10-28, 10:07 PM
As always, I am sure there is something I am missing that would make this horribly broken. There are some Epic feats a person might squeeze into, but they're not very good - Bonus Domain at level 17 doesn't seem huge and Great Strength doesn't seem like a good use of a Feat at any level, the worst one at a glance is Epic Speed.

-Epic Toughness (+30 HP) at level 3 will probably be good and remain good for most of your career. If you can hit the prereq, then Fast Healing is a good one to nab too.
-No longer having to dip Barbarian 1 for Pounce and instead being a Human with Imp. Initiative and Dire Charge works out for chargers.
-Additional Magic Item Space is probably good for everybody
-Spellcasting Harrier would be good for martials who can't afford the spellcraft rank, or gishes who can't take the -4 CL.
-Positive Energy Aura exists, I guess, if you're campaign is going in that direction... (obtainable at lvl 9)

Malapterus
2018-10-28, 10:13 PM
-Epic Toughness (+30 HP) at level 3 will probably be good and remain good for most of your career. If you can hit the prereq, then Fast Healing is a good one to nab too.
-No longer having to dip Barbarian 1 for Pounce and instead being a Human with Imp. Initiative and Dire Charge works out for chargers.
-Additional Magic Item Space is probably good for everybody
-Spellcasting Harrier would be good for martials who can't afford the spellcraft rank, or gishes who can't take the -4 CL.
-Positive Energy Aura exists, I guess, if you're campaign is going in that direction... (obtainable at lvl 9)

The only one of these that seems like a big problem is Epic Toughness. It should at least require regular Toughness as a prerequisite, possibly Improved Toughness as well.

Falontani
2018-10-28, 10:42 PM
I'm looking at the portion that can grant you two feats for the price of one.

Nifft
2018-10-28, 11:04 PM
If this prerequiste is a class, race, attack bonus, skill level, or similar requirement, it is simply ignored. How about size? Due to poor wording of the Snatch feat (MM), I think you can fling an opponent of any size, if you have the appropriate natural weapons. Good for a Human Totemist perhaps.

Thunderclap (Savage Species) threatens to make Monks relevant. It requires Str 30, but the save DC scales via HD + Con bonus.

There might be an [Exalted] feat which a Neutral or Evil character wants... Exalted Wild Shape, maybe?



You could get a jump on item creation feats, but I don't think a character is going to have the time and money to screw around with that sort of thing until they reach the appropriate level anyway.

Craft Staff for a custom Runestaff at level 3/5/6 would be pretty spiffy, and you could just keep adding to it as you level up. Similar to how Ancestral Relic works, but you can make one for an ally too.

Graft Flesh would allow you to enter the Fleshwarper PrC on time (ECL 6) instead of needing to muck about getting Heal ranks on your Wizard.

Those are not campaign-wrecking; they're actually pretty cool.

Goaty14
2018-10-29, 12:17 AM
The only one of these that seems like a big problem is Epic Toughness. It should at least require regular Toughness as a prerequisite, possibly Improved Toughness as well.

I mean, I don't think it's *that* bad. IMO, Improved Toughness is a bit weak for what it gives you (it just looks comparatively good in comparison to normal toughness). It's probably a ton at low levels, but at mid levels it's just so-so.

DeTess
2018-10-29, 02:58 AM
Keep in mind that a lot of prc's only have one requirement that level-gates the prc, so when applied to a prc, this variant would allow a lot if them to be entered on level 2 or 3.

death390
2018-10-29, 01:20 PM
almost all of the non-caster Prc's have a BaB req or 1-2 skills that have high rank reqs so yeah that would open up a lot of them early.

Thurbane
2018-10-29, 03:56 PM
If you specifically exclude epic feats, then it shouldn't be too game breaking...

Malapterus
2018-10-29, 06:23 PM
Thanks to everyone who chimed in!

I think I'll cut the PRC thing and make epic feats possibly require additional prereqs at gm discration

Nifft
2018-10-29, 07:00 PM
Thanks to everyone who chimed in!

I think I'll cut the PRC thing and make epic feats possibly require additional prereqs at gm discration

You might want to just lower the entry level for (most) non-caster PrCs -- giving access to most them early won't unbalance the game, not if you allow full casters to exist in the same game.