Is There A Cowboy Class In D&D 3.5?

[Bartmanhomer]

Is there a cowboy class in D&D 3.5? If so, what's the name of the class?

[Nifft]

Ranger.

Paladin.

Warlock.

[Zaq]

Classes are packages of abilities. What do you want a “cowboy” to be able to do?

[Winthur]

Put on a hat and fluff the phrase "It's high noon" to be the necessary verbal component of your highest damage AoE nuke. Have ranks in Animal Empathy and Ride.

[SpoonR]

If there is, it's probably named either Knight or Cavalier. But I don't have all the books so dunno if it actually exists.

[Thurbane]

Minotaur racial class? :smalltongue:

[Troacctid]

Cowboy is a profession, not a class. Anyone can put skill ranks into it normally.

[Bartmanhomer]

Classes are packages of abilities. What do you want a “cowboy” to be able to do?

I didn't ask for an optimization. I ask if there's a cowboy class exist in this game but somebody already mentioned that cowboy is profession rather than a class.

[Thurbane]

I didn't ask for an optimisation. I ask if there's a cowboy class exist in this game but somebody already mentioned that cowboy is profession rather than a class.

I mean, I know it's not 3.5, but Pathfinder has the Gunslinger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/), which is modelled on the Hollywood depiction of the stereotypical wild west cowboy...

[Bartmanhomer]

I mean, I know it's not 3.5, but Pathfinder has the Gunslinger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/), which is modelled on the Hollywood depiction of the stereotypical wild west cowboy...

Ok, one question then. How come Pathfinder got a cowboy class but not D&D 3.5? :mad:

[stack]

Minotaur racial class? :smalltongue:


I mean, I know it's not 3.5, but Pathfinder has the Gunslinger (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/gunslinger/), which is modelled on the Hollywood depiction of the stereotypical wild west cowboy...

In PF, large creatures can wield cannons at a -4 penalty. Minotaur gunslinger, quickdraw, cannons.
Undersized mount feat so you can still ride a horse animal companion gained via feats.

[Nifft]

Ok, one question then. How come Pathfinder got a cowboy class but not D&D 3.5? :mad:

In 3.5e, cows are girls and boys are bulls.

In Pathfinder, transcheddar characters have better support.

[torrasque666]

Ok, one question then. How come Pathfinder got a cowboy class but not D&D 3.5? :mad:
Because WotC is not creative.

[Sto]

Guns aren't commonplace in 3.5e games. That means a class devoted to being that fastest shot in the west wouldn't exist. Pathfinder has guns as an exotic weapon, so a class is more appropriate.

[Thurbane]

Ok, one question then. How come Pathfinder got a cowboy class but not D&D 3.5? :mad:


Because WotC is not creative.

To be fair, the pseudo-medieval setting of most D&D campaigns doesn't exactly lend itself to the flavour of a gunslinger/cowboy type.

[Telonius]

Yeah, they generally left the cowboy archetypes to Deadlands.

Part of the problem is just general verisimilitude. If you have guns, it alters the entire setting. It obsoletes a lot of armor, weapons, tactics, and even a few spells. That's not even getting into how you model a hit mechanically. A bullet is going to do a whole lot of damage. That's really not well-modeled by HP. Vitality/wound points from Unearthed Arcana would probably make more sense, but that's opening a whole other can of worms.

[ezekielraiden]

Is there a cowboy class in D&D 3.5? If so, what's the name of the class?

I know you've said you aren't wanting a mechanics-first view, but it'a hard to square that with a request for a class, which by definition is a mechanical package given flavor. So, let's think about what exactly a cowboy needs. We'll take a slightly stricter view, since you can always ignore features you don't have but can't pick up features you do.

Cowboys have to be able to handle animals, ride horses, shoot accurately, survive out on the range, navigate even in relatively flat featureless territory, and deal with day to day animal issues. That sounds like Handle Animal, Ride, good BAB with ranged weapons, Survival/decent HP and saves/some utility effects, again Survival or K(Nature), and K(Nature). I'm definitely getting a clear Ranger vibe here. Treat the animal companion like a Paladin's special mount and include firearm proficiency (perhaps replacing Favored Enemy with skillful shot bonuses), tweak the spell list a little, and I think you'd have a great-fitting (albeit not necessarily powerful) Cowboy class, akin to the Battledancer class that is clearly a rebuild off the Monk chassis.

[Dalmosh]

I have twice had players ask this, and I think 3.5 offers enough options to build just about anything without necessarily resorting to PF content. I tend to want to stick hard and fast to RAW when it comes to character creation where I can, excluding things like LA which are internally broken, and I don't feel provide players with the character building choices they want.

So... my solutions were.

Use existing firearm rules from DMG and exotic weapon proficiency feat, craft alchemy, and bring in a new craft skill (gunsmithing), (but obviously if these aren't what you want look at Iron Kingdoms, D20 Modern and Pathfinder for their solutions and work out your own approach that fits). The DMG rules are too simple to really capture firearms properly, but at least they aren't game breakingly powerful or automatically render much else in 3.5 obsolete.

A). For a straight mundane style Man with No Name style dude, I have found the Scout class has a lot to offer.

B) For a more cosmic mystical Roland of Gilead type character, Champions of Valor has an alternative class feature progression for the Ranger called Shadow Sword Ranger, which I feel goes a long way to emulate the sort of mystical accuracy, and planewalking chops that Roland tends to bust out on his quest.

[Psyren]

Ok, one question then. How come Pathfinder got a cowboy class but not D&D 3.5? :mad:

3.5 came first and thus took fewer risks. There was very little in the way of firearms, technology, or even alchemy, all areas that PF had a bit more freedom to play around with.

You should be able to port the Gunslinger back to 3.5 without too much trouble.

[Ellrin]

Yeah, they generally left the cowboy archetypes to Deadlands.

Part of the problem is just general verisimilitude. If you have guns, it alters the entire setting. It obsoletes a lot of armor, weapons, tactics, and even a few spells. That's not even getting into how you model a hit mechanically. A bullet is going to do a whole lot of damage. That's really not well-modeled by HP. Vitality/wound points from Unearthed Arcana would probably make more sense, but that's opening a whole other can of worms.

I mean, it depends on the caliber and type of bullet, but in general a bullet isn't going to do as much damage to an unarmored combatant as a sword is. The real advantage of firearms over melee weapons isn't damage, it's the ability to wound a guy in armor from a distance without much training.

It's certainly true that HP-based combat doesn't reflect real combat well, but real combat is messy, random, and short. It doesn't translate very well to dramatic gameplay.

[animewatcha]

Ok, one question then. How come Pathfinder got a cowboy class but not D&D 3.5? :mad:

It might have been since tome of battle was martials 2.0 kinda. However, there was a 'rapid' shift to 4e ( I hear due to hasbro ) and the 'need to be like WoW'.

[Mordaedil]

Our DM made a gunslinger class, but it's not really so much a cowboy class as it is a regiment class. You get proficiency with muskets and pistols, long-range sneak attack, long-range flanking, special abilities like being able to sneak attack targets your party members have hit, faster reloading and the ability to craft special guns after a number of levels, allowing speedier guns and even faster reloading. It's heavily setting flavored and only one of us is playing it and it is incompatible with magic as is (to the point where buffing the gunslinger is impossible and he needs unique magic items made by the race that developed guns)

So far it is the deadliest one-shot in our party, but that will of course gradually change as the sorcerer and warblade gain levels.

[weckar]

I mean, by the same logic of this thread one may ask why a LOT of classes don't explicitly exist. Blacksmith, Knife Thrower, Captain, Scholar...

[SangoProduction]

Cowboy is a profession, not a class. Anyone can put skill ranks into it normally.

Since that's not in blue, I assume it's not a joke response, and you actually think you're clever.

So... you know full well when someone asks for a "cowboy" they aren't looking for a cow herdsman.

[daremetoidareyo]

Here are the literary tropes of a western.

A frontier, a lawless Frontier. A lawless Frontier that is being cultivated for civilization by the values of a civilization that adjoins it.

A western hero has the values of that Civilization but the skill set of the Lawless Frontier. This hero brings civilization to that Frontier through the use of that skill set. But they can never really Belong To That civilization due to the effects of wielding that Frontier skill set. Hence, the walking off into the sunset.

From this distillation, any class can be a western hero.

The specifics of cowboys require That civilization wanting to put the frontier under till for agricultural purposes. Follow up power Brokers from the civilization then capitalize on that new revenue stream.

This necessarily creates a need to assert property rights, and those property rights then need muscle to assert their dominance over the new frontier. But due to the remove from civilization itself, all sorts of Lawless powers work to extract the resources derived from those property rights through the use of force. That Force tends to include ranged weaponry, quick individualized Transportation methods, a high number of Lawless followers held together buy a strong / charismatic leader.

The cowboy then needs the value system of the civilization attempting to tame the frontier, individualized transportation, deadly weaponry, and a Fearless disposition against the Wild hordes.

[ShurikVch]

D20 Modern have Gunslinger (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/msrd/msrdadvancedclassesI.rtf) advanced class, and Frontier Marshal PrC - in the d20 Past

[Rhedyn]

Isn't there a d20 Version of Deadlands that could work?

[Ellrin]

To me, what makes your typical movie cowboy hero that can't be achieved by fluff alone can be distilled down to a few things.

Ranged weapons: Guns are hard to work with in pure 3e, but you could still conceivably use bows, crossbows, or even throwing weapons.
Fast on the draw: You'll probably want to boost initiative sky high, maybe even take Quick Draw and Combat Reflexes just for the flavor.
Savvy with a rope: I don't recall if there's a lasso in 3e, but if so, that seems like an obvious choice. Use Rope is a skill you'll want to invest heavily in, as well.
Horseman: Ranks in Ride is a must, and you'll definitely want a build that supports mounted combat.
Lawman: Particularly Lawful cowboys will want nonlethal ways to deal with less dangerous lawbreakers and varmints. I was thinking something along the lines of the Justiciar prestige class, but that's unfortunately pretty limited to melee.
Wilderness savvy: This could be as easy as investing ranks in survival, or as involved as taking levels in ranger, scout, or similarly themed classes/PrCs.

I dunno, am I missing any particularly thematic tropes here? Because outside gunmanship, I think a lot of this is achievable without doing much, if any, homebrewing or porting from other systems. Add in some stereotypical cowboy flavor—a wide-brimmed hat and a long coat, a Texas drawl, some chewing tobaccy, etc.; and you've got a recognizeable cowboy even in a fantasy setting.

[gkathellar]

I didn't ask for an optimization. I ask if there's a cowboy class exist in this game but somebody already mentioned that cowboy is profession rather than a class.

And Zaq didn’t say anything about optimization. They asked what “cowboy” would mean in the context of game mechanics, because the term is pretty vague outside of appealing to a general Southwestern frontiersman sort of sensibility. Depending on what literary or real life example you’re looking at, a case could be made for fighter (Wyatt Earp), ranger (Hondo), rogue (Doc Holliday), warlock (the man with no name EDIT: the nameless preacher from Clint Eastwood’s Pale Rider), or unarmed swordsage (Kwai Chang Caine), among others.

[Silly Name]

... warlock (the man with no name)...

Uh, I'm curious. Why do you think that this character could be a Warlock??

[Ramza00]

Here are the literary tropes of a western.

A frontier, a lawless Frontier. A lawless Frontier that is being cultivated for civilization by the values of a civilization that adjoins it.

A western hero has the values of that Civilization but the skill set of the Lawless Frontier. This hero brings civilization to that Frontier through the use of that skill set. But they can never really Belong To That civilization due to the effects of wielding that Frontier skill set. Hence, the walking off into the sunset.

From this distillation, any class can be a western hero.

The specifics of cowboys require That civilization wanting to put the frontier under till for agricultural purposes. Follow up power Brokers from the civilization then capitalize on that new revenue stream.

This necessarily creates a need to assert property rights, and those property rights then need muscle to assert their dominance over the new frontier. But due to the remove from civilization itself, all sorts of Lawless powers work to extract the resources derived from those property rights through the use of force. That Force tends to include ranged weaponry, quick individualized Transportation methods, a high number of Lawless followers held together buy a strong / charismatic leader.

The cowboy then needs the value system of the civilization attempting to tame the frontier, individualized transportation, deadly weaponry, and a Fearless disposition against the Wild hordes.

Links a video about cowboy bebop and the various genres in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YR4ZrA0xeM

[gkathellar]

Uh, I'm curious. Why do you think that this character could be a Warlock??

... I can neither confirm nor deny that I may have been thinking of the Preacher from Pale Rider. Which is a Clint Eastwood western in which he plays a nameless, unstoppable gunfighter variously implied to be a man who only barely survived death, a vengeful spirit or revenant, and the Fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse.

Go watch it, it’s awesome.

[Thurbane]

... I can neither confirm nor deny that I may have been thinking of the Preacher from Pale Rider. Which is a Clint Eastwood western in which he plays a nameless, unstoppable gunfighter variously implied to be a man who only barely survived death, a vengeful spirit or revenant, and the Fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse.

Go watch it, it’s awesome.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/1e/36/e21e36eac39e925f5b35b47e448a3f18.jpg

[Silly Name]

... I can neither confirm nor deny that I may have been thinking of the Preacher from Pale Rider. Which is a Clint Eastwood western in which he plays a nameless, unstoppable gunfighter variously implied to be a man who only barely survived death, a vengeful spirit or revenant, and the Fourth Horseman of the Apocalypse.

Go watch it, it’s awesome.

Oh, yeah, that one makes sense! I was thinking of The Man With No Name as he was in Sergio Leone's movies. So, you know, still Clint Eastwood, just with no supernatural stuff added, which is why I was confused you suggested making him a Warlock.

[Thurbane]

Also a Warlock's Eldritch Blasts could be fluffed as gunslinging.

[PunBlake]

Also a Warlock's Eldritch Blasts could be fluffed as gunslinging.

So everyone doesn't call Eldritch Blast "finger guns?" :smallwink:

This thread made me build something I would consider playing in a campaign; it's nowhere near TO, but a Whisper Gnome with a Dire Badger mount, Mounted Combat/Archery, and a 6d6 vitriolic blast or glaive (with no gear) seems fun. I sure wish Paladin and/or Ranger spells interacted with Eldritch Theurge's Eldritch Spellweave. There's just not much in the way of damage spells requiring touch attacks on those lists.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I guess a ranger/psywar/slayer build could work as a cowboy. Take Able Learner at level 1 to keep your ranger skills up, and go for the soulbound warrior ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) so you can summon a level-appropriate gun whenever you need it. Take the Wild Cohort feat for an animal companion, as well. Just make it a deinonychus or something, because hosses don't do so well in mid-to-late levels.

[Vertharrad]

You might want to look up 3e's Ravenloft: Masque of the Red Death, it might give you some ideas about how to craft a cowboy class.

[Telonius]

Oh, yeah, that one makes sense! I was thinking of The Man With No Name as he was in Sergio Leone's movies. So, you know, still Clint Eastwood, just with no supernatural stuff added, which is why I was confused you suggested making him a Warlock.

Samurai going into Ronin could model it pretty well, for a party of seven. :smallbiggrin:

[fallensavior]

Ranger seems obvious.

[PunBlake]

The Wild Defender (Dragon Mag #324) fits the bill well, as a Ranger alternate base class with Smite Evil, an Animal Companion, and Rebuke Nature (Su).

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

Minotaur racial class? :smalltongue:

That's a cowMAN, lol.

Paladin of murlynd from dragon magazines "Paladins of Greyhawk" don't remember what issue. Ride, handle animal, pistol specialization, over inflated sense of justice. That cowboyish enough?

[Nifft]

That's a cowMAN, lol. "Only two things come out of Texas, and I got horns."


Paladin of murlynd from dragon magazines "Paladins of Greyhawk" don't remember what issue. Ride, handle animal, pistol specialization, over inflated sense of justice. That cowboyish enough? Those are great.

Is there a Blackguardhat fallen version?

Needs a Hat of the Arch-Cowboy -- white for good, black for evil, and grey for dirty.

[Ellrin]

Needs a Hat of the Arch-Cowboy -- white for good, black for bad, and grey for ugly.

Fixed that for you.

[Thurbane]

Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk (page 206) mentions a revolver that was owned by Murlynd, that he found at Boot Hill. Boot Hill was a wild west RPG that TSR used to make. They say that Murlynd also fancied himself a gunslinger.

Oddly, though, they stat it as a .357, which is not an old west weapon...

[The Viscount]

If you want to pull from something like the Man with No Name, there are a few classes highly related to his profession of bounty hunting.

The one with broader strokes would be Bloodhound or Crimson Scourge, which are good at hunting down quarry. Crimson Scourge especially lines up well with a character that isn't afraid to get their hands dirty.

A more specific interpretation of a, shall we say, more principled type is the Justiciar. Unlike the Man with No Name, this is a class about finding bounties and returning them alive, and with class features like hogtie, it's certainly easy to interpret them as cowboys. Deneith Warden may also work with this sort of idea, though it carries more Eberron fluff so may be harder to adapt to being a cowboy.

[Mordaedil]

My favorite part of the Justiciar is how you get weapon proficiency manacles and the idea you're supposed to beat people up with a pair of handcuffs is kinda funny to me.

[Silly Name]

My favorite part of the Justiciar is how you get weapon proficiency manacles and the idea you're supposed to beat people up with a pair of handcuffs is kinda funny to me.

I know it's not actually supported by the rules, but I always picture the Justicar throwing manacles like Inspector Zenigata. Way cooler than beating people up with manacles.

[Seharvepernfan]

Wilderness rogue

[Fouredged Sword]

Traditionally a cowboy is played via the wizard class using wands for guns. This was how the origional Gygax group did it.

[Mordaedil]

Funny how I made a phazor based on a wand of lesser orb series spells, where you could "set" the damage type an damage by burning charges.

Also an advanced phazor based on the 4th level orbs, but that was reserved for emergencies™.

[The Viscount]

I know it's not actually supported by the rules, but I always picture the Justicar throwing manacles like Inspector Zenigata. Way cooler than beating people up with manacles.

Normal manacles can be wielded like a club, and clubs have a range increment of 10 feet. Totally supported.

[ericgrau]

Preload dozens of hand crossbows so you can dual wield them. Pick up quick draw + (improved) rapid shot + TWF. That'll net you tons of attacks, even more than your typical volley archer thanks to TWF. Drop hand crossbows as you quick draw more. Stack on bonus damage source of your choice, such as ranged weapon mastery or sneak attack. Note that while sneak attack is more damage per hits, the attack bonus is usually lower so you might get less damage overall. Especially because of the extra penalties. Plus SA is hard to trigger. So boosting attack bonus with things like improved rapid shot will be even more important. Since you carry so many hand crossbows, it'll be better to make the bolts masterwork rather than the hand crossbows.

Pick up bolts of every metal type to overcome DR. Bane bolts of common creature types, such as undead, are also nice. Poison is viable levels 5-10.

Insert any other standard archery stuff I forgot.

A mount is important to the concept and very helpful mechanically, however you don't need more than a +4 in ride to function well. Ride does not require training to use, so with your dex you don't need to put any ranks in it. That's all you need to ride, shoot, etc. You may put in ranks though, and it helps you do some extra acrobatic tricks such as fast mount/dismount, use the mount for cover, spur (speed up) the mount, and to make the mount jump farther. Likewise mounted combat and mounted archery are helpful but not necessary. Mounted archer is only if your mount double moves. You probably want to treat your mount as disposable and replace as needed, so overly investing in build resources isn't a good idea.

Wear a wide brim hat. Look for cool alchemical/magical doodads, especially those that are tossable. It both looks cool with your style and works well with your feats. These make the concept more fantasy-ish cowboy.


Traditionally a cowboy is played via the wizard class using wands for guns. This was how the origional Gygax group did it.

I like the this idea too, and there are feats to support it. Dual wand wielding, etc.