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ChudoJogurt
2018-10-30, 05:11 AM
Hi,

I'm running a slightly higher-than-normal-powered campaigns, currently at 7th level.
That means, amongst other things that party Ranger a bow that is equivalent to the Hanks Bow (that's also +1 Undead Bane), Woodland Archer feat, and his Favored Enemy includes not a specific humanoid but all elves, humans and dwarves, currently at +2.
That means he deals (through Rapid Shot) something akin to 6d6+16+6 damage/round to them.

I didn't think any of that broke the game, just bringing him up to speed with party Sorcerer and custom Warblade/Warmind multi class.
However, once we reached said 7th level, and I made a more urban-style campaign (that includes a lot of humanoid opponents) and he has a tendency to drop the enemy's caster on his first full attack, which is fairly annoying to me, as the caster enemies are usually the most versatile in combat and allow for memorable and distinct encounters.

So, I don't want to remove him preemptively from any combat via massive damage -- that is not fun for the player and risks actually killing the character. same goes for powerful debuffs like Blindness. But I need something that would allow the wizard or sorcerer in question to somewhat (though preferably not fully) defend themselves from ranged bow attacks, without relying on Consealment, which is negated by the Woodland Archer and being available on levels 5-8

I've got Wind Wall, Mirror Image and... I think that's it. What other spells/items could work here?
Protection from Arrows doesn't work (since its /magic) and I don't feel it would be a right thing to home rule Faerun version of Reverse Arrows, as its a clear nerf (I still might if that is the best solution)

Eldariel
2018-10-30, 05:34 AM
Lesser Celerity (PHBII), Greater Mirror Image (PHBII), Heart of Earth (Complete Mage), Wings of Cover (Races of the Dragon), Abrupt Jaunt (PHBII ACF), etc. (Empowered) False Life shared with companion and like Shield Other can just let 'em tank it too. Or just Greater Mage Armor (SC)/Greater Luminous Armor (BoED) + Alter Self/Polymorph for insane AC to make landing those hits less trivial. Add Quickened Shield too if desired.

Though if you're running high-powered, why on earth are you pulling your punches on PC deaths? They have all the tools in the world to revive midcombat (Last Breath/Revivify scrolla are easily accessible), reverting conditions is easy and even a blind archer can be dangerous with a spotter. High lethality unless specific defenses are used is one of the hallmarks of high power D&D.

Crake
2018-10-30, 05:42 AM
Hank's energy bow may shoot force arrows, but damage reduction applies to weapon attacks, and it's still a weapon attack, and not an energy attack (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/glossary&term=Glossary_dnd_energydamage&alpha=). Many people assume the force damage makes it bypass DR, but hanks energy bow lacks any such language in it's description, unlike the similar force weapon ability, which specifically mentions that it bypasses DR. People often conflate the two, but they aren't the same.

As such, Stoneskin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/stoneskin.htm) (or heart of earth as mentioned earlier, which can be pre-cast and last all day, and be activated as a swift action, plus the temporary HP being a nice bonus) is a 4th level sorcerer/wizard spell, which will absorb 10 damage per hit of the bow (up to 70 damage total), and fits perfectly into the level range that you've got going. When his full attack damage suddenly becomes 6d6-8, it's not gonna be so much of an issue.

noob
2018-10-30, 05:43 AM
Stoneskin is quite high level(level 4 so you cast it at level 7) but it would work unless the ranger use adamentine arrows.
You could also use enthropic shield
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entropicShield.htm
It is said to be similar to concealment but it explicitly deflects projectiles (so it is not classical concealment) but it is hard to get without either a scroll/wand or a rune/domain staff or a feat.
getting enough armor increasing spells can mitigate damage through reducing the amount of power attack: http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/book-of-exalted-deeds--52/luminous-armor-greater--8/index.html + shield can give +12 ac and if you can stack in protection from whatever alignment is the ranger you get 2 more ac for a total of +14 ac.
At high level you can get necrotic empowerment which gave like 200 temp hp and use shield other with your familiar.

Malphegor
2018-10-30, 05:57 AM
Leomund's Secure Shelter, perhaps? Spell Level 4, conjure up a cottage to defend against arrows!

(has a really long duration, and is impervious to ordinary missiles like arrows because it's a building.)

Plus it's a entertaining image- conjure a small house in combat to provide cover whilst casting spe-

actually wait why aren't I doing this anyway in my game? gah!

... wait, 10 minutes casting time. That explains it. Hmm.

Maybe give your caster a magic ring of Leomund's Secure Shelter 1/day. They activate it, bam, stone defences, whilst they prep a spell to take down the pcs.

WAIT! Isn't there Leomund's Tiny Hut!

Haha! spell level 3, standard action! Total concealment. Arrows can go through, but it's hard to hit what you can only see a vague bubble of! 50% miss chance on arrows... That's alright. Should affect the full volley they fire, right? So 50% hit or miss.

(I'm kind of on a 'long duration silly use for a seemingly weak utility spell' mood at the moment so conjuring up houses is my kind of thing atm)

Crake
2018-10-30, 06:12 AM
Leomund's Secure Shelter, perhaps? Spell Level 4, conjure up a cottage to defend against arrows!

(has a really long duration, and is impervious to ordinary missiles like arrows because it's a building.)

Plus it's a entertaining image- conjure a small house in combat to provide cover whilst casting spe-

actually wait why aren't I doing this anyway in my game? gah!

... wait, 10 minutes casting time. That explains it. Hmm.

Maybe give your caster a magic ring of Leomund's Secure Shelter 1/day. They activate it, bam, stone defences, whilst they prep a spell to take down the pcs.

WAIT! Isn't there Leomund's Tiny Hut!

Haha! spell level 3, standard action! Total concealment. Arrows can go through, but it's hard to hit what you can only see a vague bubble of! 50% miss chance on arrows... That's alright. Should affect the full volley they fire, right? So 50% hit or miss.

(I'm kind of on a 'long duration silly use for a seemingly weak utility spell' mood at the moment so conjuring up houses is my kind of thing atm)

Secure shelter has a 10 minute cast time, but I'd actually forgotten about tiny hut, and how useful it can be. You can also move about inside the hut, so it's a 50% miss chance if you target the right square.

noob
2018-10-30, 06:14 AM
Leomund's Secure Shelter, perhaps? Spell Level 4, conjure up a cottage to defend against arrows!

(has a really long duration, and is impervious to ordinary missiles like arrows because it's a building.)

Plus it's a entertaining image- conjure a small house in combat to provide cover whilst casting spe-

actually wait why aren't I doing this anyway in my game? gah!

... wait, 10 minutes casting time. That explains it. Hmm.

Maybe give your caster a magic ring of Leomund's Secure Shelter 1/day. They activate it, bam, stone defences, whilst they prep a spell to take down the pcs.

WAIT! Isn't there Leomund's Tiny Hut!

Haha! spell level 3, standard action! Total concealment. Arrows can go through, but it's hard to hit what you can only see a vague bubble of! 50% miss chance on arrows... That's alright. Should affect the full volley they fire, right? So 50% hit or miss.

(I'm kind of on a 'long duration silly use for a seemingly weak utility spell' mood at the moment so conjuring up houses is my kind of thing atm)

The leomud tiny hut would be good if not for

without relying on Consealment, which is negated by the Woodland Archer and being available on levels 5-8
Of course we can assume the ranger use mindsight and tremorsense too.(or else the poster would not say that it is negated)
But secure shelter is a functional way to stop projectiles unless the ranger have ubercharger levels of damage and can railgun explode walls and the planets behind the wall and the stars behind the planets and so on(all within a turn).
In the same vein but lower level than secure shelter there is http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/complete-scoundrel--60/blockade--897/index.html if you can manage to stop the archer from sidestepping too easily.

Crake
2018-10-30, 06:27 AM
The leomud tiny hut would be good if not for

Of course we can assume the ranger use mindsight and tremorsense too.(or else the poster would not say that it is negated)
But secure shelter is a functional way to stop projectiles unless the ranger have ubercharger levels of damage and can railgun explode walls and the planets behind the wall and the stars behind the planets and so on(all within a turn).
In the same vein but lower level than secure shelter there is http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/complete-scoundrel--60/blockade--897/index.html if you can manage to stop the archer from sidestepping too easily.

Maybe he was referring to concealment, and not total concealment? I find it hard to imagine a level 7 character with tremorsense, and I'm not sure how a ranger picks up telepathy for mindsight.

Quertus
2018-10-30, 06:44 AM
Vary your encounters.

Don't stealth nerf the Ranger - just add in more casters, so that, even if he kills one in the opening round, the other two still get to act.

Sometimes, the caster is invisible.

Sometimes, the caster has Stone Skin.

Sometimes, the caster has Wind Wall.

Sometimes, the caster is actually a polymorphed dragon.

Sometimes, the caster is a Tainted Sorcerer with Improved Initiative and Kauper's Skittish Nerves (Nerve Skitter), who held an action to Will DC 50+ Charm the first person to attempt to take hostile action against them.

Sometimes, the fight takes place in thick fog.

And, sometimes - quite often, in fact, the caster just dies.

EDIT: also, work on making your muggle opposition more memorable. Battle cries, themes, tactics, fighting styles, cool items, consumables to give them the versatility you want out of your decreased casters, etc. Just let the casters die, man!

Icarium
2018-10-30, 06:44 AM
Why not just play the NPC opponent wizards like they are, you know, REALLY smart, and use line of sight and cover for all it's worth.. Spells and stuff is great protection, but if the ranger can't see the casters he can't shoot them.

Segev
2018-10-30, 11:05 AM
Have the wizard fly (negating Tremorsense) and use tricks that obscure what square he's in, like the tiny hut. That has at least 4 squares he can be in, and if he's not touching the ground, Tremorsense doesn't help. Yes, if the Ranger guesses correctly which square, he ignores concealment, but he still has to guess which square, and technically doesn't know if he hit or not!

The Wizard could even turn invisible and put up a silent image of the dome and then move out of it (the tiny hut vanishes when he leaves, which is why he needs the illusion). Get into position to prepare for the rest of the fight before letting concentration lapse on the illusory hut, perhaps wasting a round or two of the Ranger's actions.

Conjuring forth summoned monsters he sends after the party before he does the invisibility+silent image trick would even make those rounds of firing into the hut dangerous as the ranger is focusing on that while being attacked by critters that don't require the Wizard to drop concentration on his illusion. If they focus on the critters, instead, drop the illusion earlier so you can get ready to cast spells on yourself or on your summons to keep them in the fight.

death390
2018-10-30, 12:09 PM
something as simple as Silent Image could also work, mind you that with a will save it no longer works, but at least it helped for 1 round! (it takes interaction to disbelieve). heck most things that throw up cover could work: soft cover in the form of larger creatures blocking the way, slightly around a corner, the spell blockade, a tower shield, ect. soft cover is +4 AC, total Cover means no line of effect and thus can't attack.

jdizzlean
2018-10-30, 12:20 PM
how about just describe your wizard in something other than robes and a staff/wand. if he doesn't LOOK like a wizard, then the ranger might target someone else first.

hell, be hillarious and build some extra feats into your wizard and give him snatch arrows...nothing says you have to "play fair", besides, your in a high powered game right? shake things up

J-H
2018-10-30, 12:37 PM
SRD 1st-3rd level arcane spells that can shut down or greatly hamper an archer:
Obscuring Mist
Disguise Self
Silent Image (make him attack the wrong square)
Fog Cloud
Web
Glitterdust
Invisibility
Darkness
Blur
Mirror Image
Blindness/Deafness
Sleet Storm
Stinking Cloud
Displacement
Invisibility Sphere
Blink
Slow
Ray of Exhaustion (-6 str & dex)

You can also pump wizard AC through buffs (Improved Mage Armor + Shield + Cat's Grace).
Also, have someone melee the archer. Give him other things to worry about.

Plenty of options, especially if you win initiative, or have the wizard hide in a building or around a corner!

Tomokun
2018-10-31, 07:49 AM
Sometimes Wizards just need fighters.

Why not set your wizard up with a shield-bearer, or a guardian monk, or undead minions with tower shields, and their only readied action is to intercept arrows with the tower shields?

I mean, it's functionally no different than putting them behind a wall. You can do it at any level, and it can't be negated by any magical abilities or feats. Tower shields prevent wizards from Targeting with magic missiles... should work on a dude with a magic bow.

noob
2018-10-31, 09:29 AM
Sometimes Wizards just need fighters.

Why not set your wizard up with a shield-bearer, or a guardian monk, or undead minions with tower shields, and their only readied action is to intercept arrows with the tower shields?

I mean, it's functionally no different than putting them behind a wall. You can do it at any level, and it can't be negated by any magical abilities or feats. Tower shields prevent wizards from Targeting with magic missiles... should work on a dude with a magic bow.

Also if you revert and make the wizard wear a tower shield and armor and that he have a fighter ally in wizard clothes then it can confuse the adventurers when they try to shoot at the "wizard" then take a bcf spell in the face from the real wizard.

mabriss lethe
2018-10-31, 10:11 PM
alternate strategies: "Not wizards" Take a monk, put him in a robe with a quarterstaff in hand, and maybe give him some minor magic related feats. He's not the wizard. He's the wizard's bodyguard/double. The wizard is next to him in a hat of disguise, glamoured up to look like a heavily armored fighter. (In game rationale?, This particular wizard is extremely paranoid. Too many colleagues have been picked off by sniper fire so he's come up with a long term defensive strategy. His body double acts as his proxy in most situations, while he disguises himself as the proxy's taciturn bodyguard complete with obligatory fully visored helmet. As far as anyone knows, the monk IS the wizard. give him access to still/silent spell/eschew materials to complete the illusion.)

Of course, you could make it slightly less illusory, too. Make your "wizard" a shadowcaster, give them the Still Mystery feat and the Bind Vestige feat tree. Have them bind Savnok and summon some extremely nice armor that no longer hinders their Mystery usage.

Either way, the sniper will probably target the proxy first, allowing the real caster to let loose some magic to alter the fight. If he's lucky, the proxy will survive the round, being significantly less squishy than the wizards the sniper has been one shotting. If not, he did his job, protecting his boss.