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CountAile
2018-10-31, 02:13 PM
So, Evil(tm) characters get a lot (and I mean A LOT) of cool toys - aberrant/vile feats, vile spells, EVIL spells (some of which, like Animate Dead>Create Undead>Create Greater Undead line are REALLY strong, and often class/build defining options) etc. Even outside the Book of Vile Darkness, Evil characters get a lot of options, with the only mitigating factor of those options being that they require, I dunno, some evil component, or such. Meanwhile good characters... What do they get exactly?

The only significant things Good(tm) characters get come from the Book of Exalted Deeds - some (admittedly, nice) spells, Exalted (read: roleplay a Paladin or lose them) feats, and... I think that's it? Aside from that, I can only recall variable-aligned spells (Summoning/Calling spells and such), some class-specific stuff (mostly feats for Clerics and Paladins), and that's... About it? Are there really any good Good-aligned options like feats and spells outside the BoED?

Because I honestly can't recall any

noob
2018-10-31, 02:17 PM
You can also create undying and since they are good aligned creatures you can totally let them roam the countryside with no problems so just buy tons of rats and mass produce undying.

CountAile
2018-10-31, 02:19 PM
I think you mean Deathless, yet another thing from BoED, and sadly there's no official "Animate Deathless" spell line to create a Good-aligned manager Necromancer

noob
2018-10-31, 02:22 PM
I think you mean Deathless, yet another thing from BoED, and sadly there's no official "Animate Deathless" spell line to create a Good-aligned manager Necromancer

there is in a setting book but you need the deathless domain.
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The greater version suggest you can create anything short of an ascendant councillor and specifically says you can use it to create councillors and due to the lack of restrictions you can probably make them from dead chickens.

CountAile
2018-10-31, 02:37 PM
So, basically playing a Cleric with Eberron splatbooks allowed would allow for a good Necromancer - at least, starting from 11th CL. That's... Plenty of IFs, but at least it's there.

Is there anything else worth mentioning?

Troacctid
2018-10-31, 02:46 PM
Nymph's Kiss, Celestial Familiar, and Exalted Wild Shape are all really powerful feats. Good clerics can spontaneously cast sanctified spells, which is amazing. Sentinel of Bharrai, Exalted Arcanist, and Fist of Raziel are strong prestige classes for casters. Dragonborn of Bahamut is only available to non-evil characters.

Telonius
2018-10-31, 03:02 PM
There are some alignment-dependent things in Magic of Incarnum. You get certain distinct things if you're a Good (rather than an Evil or Chaotic or ...) Incarnate. Necrocarnum has the Good "Vivicarnum" variant.

In ToB, the 5th-level Devoted Spirit maneuvers are alignment-dependent.

In terms of actual toys (items), there are several Good-only things (usually paired with their Evil opposites).

CountAile
2018-10-31, 03:07 PM
2 Troacctid
Well, yeah, some things from BoeD *ARE* strong, if you can be bothered to follow Exalted rules (so far, I've found no way not to follow those rules while retaining those feats, which doesn't work with *some* character concepts. And yeah, I totally forgot about Dragonborn being a thing and requiring a Good alignment

If we're talking setting books too, Champions of Valor contain a few more Exalted feats, and Good spells, including Sanctified, non-Deathless version of Animate Dead (STR drain, 10 min/level, but definitely not Evil), as well as the earliest thing relatively close to a Calling spell - Create Lantern Archon, which is cast for an hour, then gives you a Lantern Archon's services for a hour if you need it to do something trivial, or according to the rules of Planar Ally if it's something dangerous or such. Basically, there are some pretty nice options there, and good-aligned, non-paladinesque Wizards can use those spells too

J-H
2018-10-31, 03:41 PM
The Exalted spells are open to many casters (including wizards) for free. I assume that Planar Allies and other summons from the Good planes are much less likely to twist and backstab their way out of any agreements.

Jowgen
2018-10-31, 04:07 PM
Defenders of the Faith has some good-flavour toys, IIRC most notably the Arms of Nyr, which give untyped stats bonuses, but only work for GoodTm characters.

To hark back to BoED, Ravages are also rather neat, as they are SU immunity piercing poisons that deal serious ability damage to Evils. Plus, Stalker of Kharash PrC granting Favored Enemy (Evil), allowing for some genuine Favored Enemy optimisation.

danielxcutter
2018-10-31, 04:17 PM
(Greater) Luminous Armor is very useful too.

Troacctid
2018-10-31, 04:26 PM
2 Troacctid
Well, yeah, some things from BoeD *ARE* strong, if you can be bothered to follow Exalted rules (so far, I've found no way not to follow those rules while retaining those feats, which doesn't work with *some* character concepts. And yeah, I totally forgot about Dragonborn being a thing and requiring a Good alignment
"Exalted rules" aren't exactly difficult to follow. All you need to do is a. maintain a Good alignment and b. don't commit any Evil acts. It's not that hard.

MaxiDuRaritry
2018-10-31, 04:30 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense from a narrative point of view that Evil gets all the best toys that Good has to struggle against? Also, Evil vs Evil is a bigger trope than Good vs Good (and although the latter does happen, it's not nearly as prolific).

Troacctid
2018-10-31, 04:38 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense from a narrative point of view that Evil gets all the best toys that Good has to struggle against? Also, Evil vs Evil is a bigger trope than Good vs Good (and although the latter does happen, it's not nearly as prolific).
NPCs get to use CR instead of ECL, so I'd say they're well ahead already, even before you take into account NPC-focused evil stuff like Brand of the Nine Hells or the bonus feats for worshiping an Elder Evil.

Knaight
2018-10-31, 04:50 PM
There's always the entire paladin class. It's glaringly obvious, but a complete list should probably have it.

lbuttitta
2018-11-01, 11:12 AM
Words of Creation literally doubles bards' effectiveness at everything they do, and it's an Exalted feat.

Beckett
2018-11-01, 07:11 PM
Wouldn't it make more sense from a narrative point of view that Evil gets all the best toys that Good has to struggle against? Also, Evil vs Evil is a bigger trope than Good vs Good (and although the latter does happen, it's not nearly as prolific).

Not really, no. It would for Evil to get their toys easier and faster, with Good requiring more effort and self-sacrifice.

Something I should point out is that because most campaigns encounter more evil foes, things like Holy weapons are much, much more powerful to players than Unholy ones. So there is that.