Undead with a CON score?

[Warchon]

Is there any way to make this happen? Needs to stick to RAW or at least RAI but shenanigans are permitted.
The goal here is to create something with FEWER hitpoints without just handwaving it, so if there exists, for instance, some way to reverse the effect Plague of Undead has on hit points, that would also work.

[DrMotives]

No way to have a CON score as an undead that I know of, but lower hitpoints is easy, if the undead is mindless. Mindless undead do not recover HP the way living creatures do. Intelligent undead do recover hp over time like the living. So any skeletons or zombies that survive an encounter with an enemy will keep walking around at reduced HP if no friendly necromancer heals them with magic.

[Kayblis]

While not actually undead, the Living Zombie (https://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/livingzombie.shtml) template is an undead-lite creature that doesn't lose its Constitution score. It also has an INT and CHA score of 1, so it's not officially mindless. That means it has feats and skills(although the -5 to INT will probably give him only 1 skill point per level).

[Awakeninfinity]

Unhloly Toughness; a special ability (MM3, page 17) gives bonus hitpoints equal to Charisma modifier times Hit die, no text about minimum amount of hitpoints gained per level. However it is only a few creatures and one template (Dry Lich, Sandstorm 155... Prestige class is on page 89) afaik that grants it.

[Jack_Simth]

Is there any way to make this happen? Needs to stick to RAW or at least RAI but shenanigans are permitted.
The goal here is to create something with FEWER hitpoints without just handwaving it, so if there exists, for instance, some way to reverse the effect Plague of Undead has on hit points, that would also work.

Pathfinder or 3.5?

In Pathfinder, a Synthesist Summoner uses the Eidolon's physical ability scores - including Constitution - when bound. However: That only affects the Eidolon's HP (which become temp HP for the summoner), the living-impaired being bound to the ediolon still uses the d8+Cha for real HP.

In 3.5: I don't know of any way to restore the Con score that doesn't also change type. A casting of Polymorph Any Object can turn an arbitrary corporeal undead into an elf for a period of time, and give them a Con score of 8 as a result, but it also turns them into a humanoid(elf) for the duration.

[Feantar]

Well... not as such; but a ghost using malevolence can mimic what you want. Or any other type of possession really.

[Zanos]

Casting Veil of Undeath(Wiz/Cleric 8) will give you nearly all the features of the undead type without touching your CON score. Not sure if that helps.

EDIT: Actually read the rest of OP. Why are you trying to reduce the HP of skeletons/zombies? Couldn't you just cast animate dead instead to not get max HP?

[Warchon]

Casting Veil of Undeath(Wiz/Cleric 8) will give you nearly all the features of the undead type without touching your CON score. Not sure if that helps.

EDIT: Actually read the rest of OP. Why are you trying to reduce the HP of skeletons/zombies? Couldn't you just cast animate dead instead to not get max HP?

Because I'm not trying to "not maximize" the HP, I'm trying to specifically minimize it.

However, your suggestion is probably the best one so far. I think I can work with that!

[ExLibrisMortis]

Under a particular reading, a necropolitan renegade mastermaker becomes an Undead (augmented humanoid, living construct), and the living construct subtype specifies that you have a Constitution score ("unlike other constructs"). It is emphatically not clear-cut RAW, but it is very interesting, so let's roll with it.

More constructively, UA traits and flaws could work. The Quick trait reduces your hit points by 1/level, and so does the Frail flaw, though both require that you have at least 4 Constitution to select them. I'm uncertain whether mindless creatures can have traits and flaws, but I suppose there's no reason skeletons can't be Quick and Frail.

[Jack_Simth]

Because I'm not trying to "not maximize" the HP, I'm trying to specifically minimize it.

However, your suggestion is probably the best one so far. I think I can work with that!

Beat them up before the fight? There are a few ways to apply vile damage, and that doesn't heal easily.

[Zanos]

Beat them up before the fight? There are a few ways to apply vile damage, and that doesn't heal easily.
If skeletons and zombies are involved, undead without an int score don't heal naturally. So maybe they fell down the stairs a lot.

[ShurikVch]

Let me remind it: hit points number is a random thing, not set-in-stone; (presuming you're DM) brush the dust from your d12 die and roll it until you will get the results in "1 - 3" range

[DrMotives]

Let me remind it: hit points number is a random thing, not set-in-stone; (presuming you're DM) brush the dust from your d12 die and roll it until you will get the results in "1 - 3" range

If you go that route, might as well roll d3s. A d3 roll is just a d6 where you divide by 2, round up. So 1 or 2 is 1, 2 or 3 is 2, and a 5 or 6 is a 3.

[OgresAreCute]

If you go that route, might as well roll d3s. A d3 roll is just a d6 where you divide by 2, round up. So 1 or 2 is 1, 2 or 3 is 2, and a 5 or 6 is a 3.

I prefer doing d4 and rerolling 4s. If you got an RNG or die roller of some sort you can probably just slap in d3 with no other issues. Or you can just arbitrarily decide "these zombies get 2.5 hp per hd instead of 6.5"

[ShurikVch]

If you go that route, might as well roll d3s. A d3 roll is just a d6 where you divide by 2, round up. So 1 or 2 is 1, 2 or 3 is 2, and a 5 or 6 is a 3.But...
But...
D12 needs more action!.. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0121.html)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZC1hl7TtUrY/TqkbiOggFcI/AAAAAAAAAXw/P1Qy79ynxKs/s200/d12.jpg

[OgresAreCute]

But...
But...

My chinese d12s are actually really good, always roll high on them. I should play greataxe-wielders more often.

[Menzath]

Well, something close to what you are looking for could be the yellow musk zombie from Feind folio.
They are functionally zombies, while being creatures that have been turned into plants.

[PrismCat21]

Take a look at the AKUTSUKAI template in Oriental Adventures. They're a special kind of Undead associated with the Shadowlands.
It doesn't mention any changes to ability scores, and says that it uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities. It then lists certain special qualities and attacks it gains. Again, no mention of any changes to ability scores.