Single class AL rules Best Gladiator

[Whit]

Adventure league rule PHB +1 stats15-14-13-12-10-8
What’s the best class race to be. Arena can be from basic to exotic.

[Man_Over_Game]

Adventure league rule PHB +1 stats15-14-13-12-10-8
What’s the best class race to be. Arena can be from basic to exotic.
[Edited] Whoops, Title says single class. Lets fix that...


For a gladiator...Hmm..

Fighter, going into Battlemaster. Grab Shield Master for the Bonus Action that you won't use from the Battlemaster (as most maneuvers don't use Bonus Actions).

You'd have a lot of possible actions to do, with the ability to effectively dodge and block spells (with your Evasion ability from Shield Master), with your wide number of Battlemaster actions, and your bonus action knockdown.

Most of your maneuvers can be made at any range, so you'd be packing javelins and some kind of one-handed weapon.

Thematically, this would be the best solo gladiator, as it fills the role of a versatile, lone combatant that does whatever it takes to win.




Alternatively, a Monk with the Mobile feat is incredibly hard to catch up to. By being a Wood Elf Monk with Mobile, you'd be hitting almost 60 speed per turn without spending any resources, enough to hit someone and then stay just out of range of any kind of melee attacks. Be a Kensei, so even if they use ranged weaponry against you, there's nothing they can do against your Deflect Missiles and enhanced ranged prowess. Eventually, you can just run up walls to get around people who try to surround you.

Mechanically, I see this as being the best solo gladiator, as you can utilize the wide space to your advantage to outrange or outmaneuver anything that isn't a group of people.

[Dudewithknives]

Adventure league rule PHB +1 stats15-14-13-12-10-8
What’s the best class race to be. Arena can be from basic to exotic.

If you mean like Roman style gladiator, that will be a gladiator the whole time, champion fighter fits really well.

Now if you mean someone who would be the best at the job of being an arena style fighting, probably a zealot barbarian or if you want to be very fancy a swashbuckler rogue.
Hexblade warforged is solid.
I could also see a very nice open hand monk working well.

Race could be lots of things, personally I like variety of defenses or utility abilities. Warforged are nice but not sure if al legal.

You need to be viable in all situations.

[Whit]

Thanks I’ll check it out. The arena can be small or big in water or land. Etc etc. Wirried about ranged flyers and save spells
Was thinking elf swashbuckler for single sneak attack each turn and run

[MaxWilson]

Adventure league rule PHB +1 stats15-14-13-12-10-8
What’s the best class race to be. Arena can be from basic to exotic.

Moon Druid with Mobile feat.

[djreynolds]

Mountain dwarf swashbuckler.

Max out strength, leave dex at 14.

Don't worry about the shield,

Fight TWF

use your BA for another sword swing on a missed sneak attack, or for uncanny dodge.

Short swords and daggers

Rakish audacity and fancy footwork, uncanny dodge... never need to disengage

Grab dwarven resilience, dodge when needed as your action get HP, and then dash away Here is where the durable feat could be big

Your weakness will be versus enemy battlemasters using their maneuvers on you and forcing a dex or strength save. You have dex save proficiency, but only a 14 in dex.

Get expertise in athletics, use a contest to disarm, get their weapon and just dash away because you won't need to disengage with fancy foot work

1 attack sucks, but with the errata to shield master its not worth 2 feats (moderately armored for a shield and shield master)

AFB, not sure if you can use your action to prone someone and then get a BA sword swing, I'm thinking no.

[Crgaston]

Shoving uses the attack action, so you can definitely Shove + Bonus Action Attack.

[Vogie]

Adventure league rule PHB +1 stats 15-14-13-12-10-8
What’s the best class race to be. Arena can be from basic to exotic.

If you want to be a Retiarius, specifically, there's 2 ways to do it:

Samurai Fighter, using 15-14-13-10-12-8. Use the Fighting Spirit ability to negate the disadvantage on the Net use.
Eldritch Knight, using 10-15-14-8-12-13. Using Medium armor or Mage Armor, and use the Familiar's help action to negate the disadvantage on the Net use.

[Naanomi]

Shoving uses the attack action, so you can definitely Shove + Bonus Action Attack.
Where are we getting a bonus action attack?

[Tanarii]

Assuming a gladiator that will only rarely be fighting armed fights, because otherwise they'll soon be dead. So you need Expertise in Athletics and Acrobatics for grabbing. And of course for winning lots of money doing the Pit Fighting downtime activity in Xanathars, which is how you'll probably spend most of your downtime.

Half-orc Valor Bard Gladiator.
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 8
Wis 10
Cha 12

Skills: Athletics, Acrobatics, Intimidation, Performance, 2 of choice.
Tool Prof: Lyre (for Roman feel) or Drum (because primal)
Expertise @ 3rd: Athletics, Acrobatics
Expertise @ 10th: Intimidation, 1 of choice
Cantrips: Blade Ward, SCAG cantrip or Thunderclap
Level 1 Spells: Heroism, Cure Wounds, Longstrider, one utility of choice (I like Disguise Self).

-------
As a side note, why valor over swords? Mainly because I like it more. :smallwink: But also a Str Valor Bard can handle a wider variety of weapons for armed bouts than a Dex Swords Bard. (And no one makes Str Swords Bards.)

[Crgaston]

Where are we getting a bonus action attack?

Sorry, I was responding to the post immediately above mine. He was suggesting using TWF.

But wait... doesn't TWF require not just the attack action, but the attack action with a light weapon? So I could be mistaken.





Mountain dwarf swashbuckler.

Max out strength, leave dex at 14.

Don't worry about the shield,

Fight TWF

use your BA for another sword swing on a missed sneak attack, or for uncanny dodge.

Short swords and daggers

Rakish audacity and fancy footwork, uncanny dodge... never need to disengage

Grab dwarven resilience, dodge when needed as your action get HP, and then dash away Here is where the durable feat could be big

Your weakness will be versus enemy battlemasters using their maneuvers on you and forcing a dex or strength save. You have dex save proficiency, but only a 14 in dex.

Get expertise in athletics, use a contest to disarm, get their weapon and just dash away because you won't need to disengage with fancy foot work

1 attack sucks, but with the errata to shield master its not worth 2 feats (moderately armored for a shield and shield master)

AFB, not sure if you can use your action to prone someone and then get a BA sword swing, I'm thinking no.

[Keravath]

You didn't specify what level since that might affect choices.

Also, if the combat is in water or underwater then there are a lot of choices that would just fail (most of the straight fighter builds would have trouble in such environments but would shine in others).

Depending on level, the moon druid, bladesinger wizard, swords or valor bards, hexblade pact of the blade warlock, could be good choices with a lot of flexibility. The latter three offer extra attack and a lot of spells for dealing with unusual environments. The warlock could use darkness+devils sight making opponents attack with disadvantage on every attack while they attack with advantage.

If the "gladiator" isn't limited to melee type combat builds then all the casters (once you are high enough level) are likely to outperform a melee specialized class just due to options if for no other reason.

Unfortunately, this gives so many choices that it is difficult to suggest a good one without more knowledge of the constraints.

[rbstr]

If you can take 7+ levels in Fighter the Cavalier offers a pretty great dueling feature in Warding Maneuver and the higher level stuff lets you do some useful control and damage. Ir also goes really well with a bit of Barbarian.
But the level 3 feature doesn't offer much compared to samurai or battle master. So it's may something you don't want to do so much if you start at low level or are going to advance slowly.

[Whit]

Level starts at 1. Adventure league rules.

The levels will progress

Encounters im worried about. Range weapon/spells flying, grapplers, darkness/devil sight druid double hit points.

the wood elf swashbuckler or wood elf monk kensai sound good.

[Dudewithknives]

Level starts at 1. Adventure league rules.

The levels will progress

Encounters im worried about. Range weapon/spells flying, grapplers, darkness/devil sight druid double hit points.

the wood elf swashbuckler or wood elf monk kensai sound good.

Trust me, don't go kensei.

I could explain why but it would be long and would start a huge arguement between about 3 or 4 people that will sidetrack the thread.

[rbstr]

You've already done it. Kensei would make a great flexible gladiator type.
Standard monk features are already pretty good: Decent damage from the bonus action punch and flurry of blows. Bonus action disengage with extra speed that'll actually make it useful (and combines really well with mobile). Bonus action dodge. Reaction to reduce physical ranged damage. And the killer at level 5: Stunning for 1ki
Kensei's low level bonuses give you, basically, +2AC and much better ranged capability than other monks.

It's a fine archetype. Particularly when looking at lower level features. None of the other 3rd-level Monk features are so much better. The two main competitors: Open hand has useful control attached to flurry (but you do have to spend Ki), Drunken gets disengage on flurry (again have to spend ki). There's not a very good case, comparing these features, that Kensei is actually somehow shafted here, let alone bad in a more general sense.

Monk is definitely a class where the class itself is bringing the big important stuff, more so than the archetypes.

[Dudewithknives]

You've already done it. Kensei would make a great flexible gladiator type.
Standard monk features are already pretty good: Decent damage from the bonus action punch and flurry of blows. Bonus action disengage with extra speed that'll actually make it useful (and combines really well with mobile). Bonus action dodge. Reaction to reduce physical ranged damage. And the killer at level 5: Stunning for 1ki
Kensei's low level bonuses give you, basically, +2AC and much better ranged capability than other monks.

It's a fine archetype. Particularly when looking at lower level features. None of the other 3rd-level Monk features are so much better. The two main competitors: Open hand has useful control attached to flurry (but you do have to spend Ki), Drunken gets disengage on flurry (again have to spend ki). There's not a very good case, comparing these features, that Kensei is actually somehow shafted here, let alone bad in a more general sense.

Monk is definitely a class where the class itself is bringing the big important stuff, more so than the archetypes.

Kensei make ok archers, well as far as monks go at least, and that is it.

The reason it is so screwed up if because it started out as being on the drawing board as 2 subclasses:

1. the Kensei: a weapon specialist who got to us lots of monk abilities with non-monk weapons.
and
2. The Zen Archer: A bow specialist monk kind of similar to the Pathfinder Monk subclass.

But they did not want to publish 2 different weapon based monk classes so they just stuck them together and screwed it up.
I am not sure if some parts are intentionally written to work against their own mechanics or if they just did not care about reading over it more because they were getting other subclasses fixed first.

Addendum: I was too generous, they even do not make good archers, monks should not be archers.

[sithlordnergal]

Level starts at 1. Adventure league rules. .

Hmm, starting from level 1 and going from there eh? I would say a Human Variant Moon Druid with mobile has the potential for the most wins. The biggest danger comes from tier 2, but you can survive that pretty easily if you make use of your battlefield control spells. And once you have Polymorph and Conjure Animal, things become much easier for you.

[Speely]

Kensei is great, and versatile. I felt borderline OP playing one.

I would consider an Oath of the Ancients Paladin. Half Elf for Fey Ancestry and Cha boost. The spell resistance aura, good saves, general tankiness, self-healing/curing, Charm resistance, and control-based bonus spells would work well against a wide variety of enemy types.

[Man_Over_Game]

You've already done it. Kensei would make a great flexible gladiator type.
Standard monk features are already pretty good: Decent damage from the bonus action punch and flurry of blows. Bonus action disengage with extra speed that'll actually make it useful (and combines really well with mobile). Bonus action dodge. Reaction to reduce physical ranged damage. And the killer at level 5: Stunning for 1ki
Kensei's low level bonuses give you, basically, +2AC and much better ranged capability than other monks.

It's a fine archetype. Particularly when looking at lower level features. None of the other 3rd-level Monk features are so much better. The two main competitors: Open hand has useful control attached to flurry (but you do have to spend Ki), Drunken gets disengage on flurry (again have to spend ki). There's not a very good case, comparing these features, that Kensei is actually somehow shafted here, let alone bad in a more general sense.

Monk is definitely a class where the class itself is bringing the big important stuff, more so than the archetypes.

Almost exactly what I was going to say. Well done.

[Dudewithknives]

I think the big concern is the fact that the level 3 feature doesn't give you bonuses with a weapon, it lets you lose your BA unarmed strike to use a shield (+2 AC). For ranged monks, they effectively gain the ability to spend a BA for an extra 1d4 damage...but this is already possible with two daggers, which also adds your Dex mod to it.

So specifically, at level 3, you get to spend your BA for the Archery fighting style (+2.5 to ranged attack, Archery is +2 with no BA requirement), or you deal less damage to wield a shield. I get it, and in terms of math, it kinda sucks. But it's worth noting that it's hard to make it worth getting those features while still gaining monk features, and the features after the level 3 (magic damage, spend 1 resource for increased damage, buff a weapon) make it much more worth it.

One of the design schemes of the Monk is that the main power comes from the core class, which is dramatically different than, say, the Cleric (who's playstyle changes per each subclass). Because the generic Monk is so cool, the Kensei doesn't need to be that strong.

That is actually not what kensei does, which is the main issue.

The bonus to ac does not work if you use a bonus action unarmed attack, like flurry or martial arts, it has to be from your attack action.
So the only way you are going to get the +2 AC is if you stand there and hold the weapon you took the subclass to be able to use, but then punch people anyway.
At level 5+ you have a fancy feature that gives 2 ac but only if you make at most ONE attack a round with your actual kensei weapon, but attack unarmed with the other 2 or even 3 attacks.

If you go archer with it, you can't make stunning fist strikes with it because it is a ranged weapon, so you lose out on the best ability monks get, and also can't use flurry to its full use.

I would be fine with it if you could actually pick UNARMED STRIKE as your kensei weapon, but you can't, because it is not a "weapon"

[Man_Over_Game]

That is actually not what kensei does, which is the main issue.

The bonus to ac does not work if you use a bonus action unarmed attack, like flurry or martial arts, it has to be from your attack action.
So the only way you are going to get the +2 AC is if you stand there and hold the weapon you took the subclass to be able to use, but then punch people anyway.
At level 5+ you have a fancy feature that gives 2 ac but only if you make at most ONE attack a round with your actual kensei weapon, but attack unarmed with the other 2 or even 3 attacks.

If you go archer with it, you can't make stunning fist strikes with it because it is a ranged weapon, so you lose out on the best ability monks get, and also can't use flurry to its full use.

I would be fine with it if you could actually pick UNARMED STRIKE as your kensei weapon, but you can't, because it is not a "weapon"

We're both saying the same things, I guess I wrote it in a way that was not clearly understood. Sorry.

[Whit]

I’ve narrowed the gladiator Shan to a few options. What’s your views in what might be best

1. Human variant battle master with long sword shield and Lucky feat.
2. 1/2 elf paladin vengeance
3. Human variant mink with mobile or wood elf monk.
4. elf rogue swashbuckler

What I’m not sure about is how mobile
When you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn, whether you hit or not.
Works against
Sentinel
When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

So would a battle master with manouvers or a swashbuckler and rogue who can hit and run away far enough and repeat be better

[Dudewithknives]

I’ve narrowed the gladiator Shan to a few options. What’s your views in what might be best

1. Human variant battle master with long sword shield and Lucky feat.
2. 1/2 elf paladin vengeance
3. Human variant mink with mobile or wood elf monk.
4. elf rogue swashbuckler

What I’m not sure about is how mobile
When you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn, whether you hit or not.
Works against
Sentinel
When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.

So would a battle master with manouvers or a swashbuckler and rogue who can hit and run away far enough and repeat be better

A battlemaster will be more reliable, precise strike, menacing strike, and others are just great problem solvers.

Swashbuckler will be more flourishy, and consistent.with MUCH better skills, but lower AC, lower HP, and mobility only matters if you can put it to good use.

[Corran]

Bard (valor?) with expertise in performance. Or a swashbuckler could be pretty cool. Win the crowd...

[Tanarii]

We're both saying the same things, I guess I wrote it in a way that was not clearly understood. Sorry.
Not really. You claimed it was losing you BA unarmed strike. That's not it at all.

You Attack with your unarmed strike instead of your weapon, and still get a BA unarmed strike, for a total of two unarmed strikes instead of one weapon strike and one unarmed strike. You use your weapon for defense and get +2 AC.

At level 5+ you get two unarmed strikes (One from Attack and one from BA) and one weapon strike (Extra Attack), plus the +2 damage. Instead of two weapon strikes (Attack with Extra Attack) and a BA unarmed strike.

It's a net decrease in damage of the difference between one weapon damage and one unarmed strike. But you still get the same number of strikes total.

[Dudewithknives]

Not really. You claimed it was losing you BA unarmed strike. That's not it at all.

You Attack with your unarmed strike instead of your weapon, and still get a BA unarmed strike, for a total of two unarmed strikes instead of one weapon strike and one unarmed strike. You use your weapon for defense and get +2 AC.

At level 5+ you get two unarmed strikes (One from Attack and one from BA) and one weapon strike (Extra Attack), plus the +2 damage. Instead of two weapon strikes (Attack with Extra Attack) and a BA unarmed strike.

It's a net decrease in damage of the difference between one weapon damage and one unarmed strike. But you still get the same number of strikes total.

The issue is that to get the +2 ac, which the monk needs, because of their ac issues, you can not use the main point of the class, which is using non-monk weapons.

At level 3 and 4, you can not use your own new fancy weapon and get your +2 ac.

At level 5 plus to get the ac bonus, you would have to make one kensei weapon attack and 2 or even 3 unarmed strikes, which kind of makes taking a subclass to get to use different weapons pointless.

Also later you can spend like to make your weapon magical giving it a +1,2, or 3.
But it does not stack with a weapon with a bonus on it already.
What are going to do carry a +1 weapon you found but then when you want to use your subclass abaility you drop it and pull out a mundane one just to power it up?
On top of that you can’t use it on your own unarmed strikes because they are not weapons.

[Tanarii]

The issue is that to get the +2 ac, which the monk needs, because of their ac issues, you can not use the main point of the class, which is using non-monk weapons.
It's a trade off for the player to make, as situation warrants. Not a required flat bonus to offense or defense. The player has to decide increased offensive DPR from a better weapon or increased defensive AC from their better weapon.

[djreynolds]

Swashbuckler

Expertise in acrobatics should help versus being proned or grappled.

Fancy footwork means you can hit and run

Rakish audacity means sneak attack for 3d6 extra damage

Uncanny dodge if you get hit

You have all the stuff you need, and proficiency in dex saves.

Remember a battlemaster maneuvers forces a save, strength for trip, so that's a weak spot. Possibly a 13 dc to 15dc save.

So just hit and run basically, if you get tripped up. Uncanny dodge for one of those attacks. Get up and disengage as an action and then dash as a bonus. Half movement for getting up plus dash, is 45ft... far enough

[Keravath]

However, if you need to WIN from level 1 in order to continue to advance then some of the suggestions are weaker than others at first level. First level has few hit points .... any of the options giving an extra attack ... monk or variant human with polearm master or crossbow expert ... or a barbarian ... or a barbarian with polearm master. However, that is just the first level.

Moon druid can't wild shape until second level.

A hexblade with crossbow expert or polearm master and hex ... might stand the best chance of winning in one round ... 4d6 damage +6 ... should defeat most first level characters .. except for raged barbarians. A polearm master barbarian has a decent chance of beating the warlock depending on whether the attacks hit. So the warlock might want to go quarterstaff + shield polearm master ... and hex.
- invocations at 2nd level
- darkness + devils sight at 3rd + blade pact
- sharpshooter at 4th
- thirsting blade at 5th ... take fly spell too

You can have improved pact weapon ... or agonizing blast ... lots of good range options including crossbow at point blank range.

Alternatively you could go polearm master + great weapon master ... use eldritch + agonizing blast for ranged attacks.

Good AC with medium armor + shield

Take some levels in sorcerer multiclass at some point for more spell slots.

[EvilAnagram]

Presumably, the gladiator only fights one bout per day, yes?

Berserker Barbarian. It gets defenses against being charmed, resists damage from physical attacks, and can make three attacks per round. Take Grappler to round him out, and go with either half-orc or goliath.