[Gestalt] Character ideas

[Doctor Awkward]

Going to be doing a one-shot game tomorrow night and I'm looking for some inspiration.

The rules are as follows:

-Starting level is 12
-Stats are 19, 17, 15, 15, 14, 13
-88,000 gold to spend
-Offsets only apply to one side of the build, if I want I can have one entire side dedicated solely to level adjustments. No LA Buyoff.
-All 1st-party sources. Dragon Compendium is banned, Tome of Battle is banned.

That last one really irks me. Because it's not the first time I've seen it happen in gestalt. I asked the DM why and they said that it just makes things get out of hand, especially in gestalt. I almost never make a melee build without at least a dip in a Tome of Battle class. Not because I think the book is overpowered (its not), but because the maneuver mechanic gives me something to do in melee combat each round besides "I run up and hit it with my stick." It gives me choices. Most importantly, it gives me necessary defenses against spellcasters like the saving throw boosts, and Iron Heart Surge, without having to be a spellcaster myself.

As I wasn't made aware of the ban until after I had started planning the character, which would have been Warblade 12//X, it's put me in a tweaking mood. So I'm looking for some absurd build suggestions. At the moment I'm considering:

Whisper gnome Illusionist 5/Master Specialist 2/Shadowcraft Mage 5//Factotum 12
-I've run this build in the past when a DM suggests to me that a book which gives an edge to those pathetic grunts that wade into melee combat and risk death every encounter is overpowered. I've found it to be an excellent mind-changer.

Silverbrow Human Dread Necromancer 12//Bard 1/Marshal 1/Cleric 3/Dweomerkeeper 7
-Party buff bot. I can grab Lingering Song and stack normal inspire courage with Dragonfire Inspiration. Motivate Dexterity Aura for "going first"-ness. Requiem will let me buff my undead minions. Tomb-tainted Soul or Necropolitan for infinite healing.

Pixie Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock 3//Binder 8
-I have also been explicitly told that rogue/warlock combinations are "frowned upon". This is an alternative. I do like the idea of roleplaying a malicious trickster type of demon-entreating fey.

Duskblade 12//Telepath 12
-Race TBD. Something melee related that isn't completely boring. The Telepathic Communication (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) ACF will qualify me for Mindsight. Vigor/Share Pain and other goodies for defense, and Schism for extra manifestations. For sure the thing that will frustrate me most about playing this is knowing that I probably won't see full attack Arcane Channeling.

Something cleric-y
-Without Crusader/RKV nothing is springing to mind. I was glancing at an Ordained Champion build, but I have no idea what to put on the opposite side. Although I suppose Necropolitan and 12 instances of the Evolved Undead template might suffice...


I'm open to any other suggestions the board might have.

[Ramza00]

Archivist / Wizard with War Weaver?

[ExLibrisMortis]

Spellhoarding steel loredrake (whatever you can get at ECL 12)//wizard/incantatrix with your best Persist buffing, like wraithstrike, greater invisibility, bite of the were-tiger and so on.

[Cosi]

One gestalt idea I've been toying with for a while is metamagic-stacking build that uses Chameleon's floating feat to get a different Arcane Thesis as needed, mitigating some of the over-specialization that strategy encourages. It's kinda lose if you can't PrC on both sides though, and I'm not sure how useful the trick is in a one-shot.

If you're allowed to do crafting pre-game, Artificer could be good. Craft a giant pile of scrolls and blow the living crap out of everything with non-renewable resources. Other side could be something Rogue or Incarnum based to get a big UMD bonus to abuse with a Staff of holy word.

Maybe Beguiler 5/Divine Oracle 1/Spellwarp Sniper 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5//Druid 12? substitute domain from a wand lets you swap the Oracle domain for whatever would be useful at the moment, Spellwarp Sniper + sandblast is a no-save stun, and you get Wild Shape and Shadow Illusion. I'm not 100% sure you can get all the pieces you need though.

Cleric//Rogue gives you a solid chassis and the flexibility to do a pretty wide variety of stuff, though there's no obvious power move, outside of the various Cleric PrCs you could take. Ranger//Wizard also falls into this category, though Wild Shape Ranger into Master of Many Forms is pretty strong.

If you're really pissed off about Tome of Battle being banned, you could play something like a Duskblade//Warmage (maybe Abjurant Champion as a PrC) and pretend to be an initiator.

I think there's probably something to be done with a combination of Ranger, Scout, and Bard with feats like Swift Hunter and Dragonfire Inspiration that produces something approximately as interesting as an initiator.

Druid//Rogue is like Cleric//Rogue except that you can turn into an Octopus and get eight sneak attacks a round. Also you can maybe get Multi-Tasking (or definitely get it if your DM believes Rogue bonus feats skip prereqs, which is probably RAW but not a commonly accepted interpretation).

I'm not sure exactly what I'd do, but there's always fun to be had with Primal Scholar. Maybe like Sorcerer 6/PrC That Advances Casting 1/Primal Scholar 5//Warmage 12 so that you get a fairly limited spell selection if you've got power concerns? Actually, Sorcerer 7/Primal Scholar 5//Warmage 11/Rainbow Servant 1 with substitute domain on your list somehow is a pretty good "see what casters can do" build. Worship whatever pantheon you like and you have virtually every 5th level or lower spell in the game at will. Or combine with the aforementioned Spellwarp Sniper trick for an at-will no-save stun.

12th level is high enough to see dividends from an Ur-Priest Theurge build if you want, and your DM allows theurges in Gestalt. Binder 12//Wizard 5/Ur-Priest 2/Mystic Theurge 5 and play up the apostate angle, for example. Sadly it's probably not high enough level to do something similar with Sublime Chord, thanks to the harsh level requirements for entry.

I forget where Master Spellthief comes from, but if it's legal you could make an Ultimate Magus that gets a stupidly enormous caster level. Something like Wizard 4/Beguiler 1/Ultimate Magus 7//Spellthief 1/Warmage 1/Duskblade 1/Sorcerer 1/Dread Necromancer 1/Wu Jen 1/Bard 1/whatever-other-base-classes-have-casting gets a caster level around 40, which you can probably do something with.

[Goaty14]

How high optimization is this supposed to be? What are the other players making?

Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Uncanny Trickster (War Weaver) 2//Cleric 12

Be the party buff-bot. Most importantly, drop Heal (the end-all be-all of in-combat healing) into the weave (war weaver requires arcane entry, but not limited to using arcane spells) using close range instead of touch to make the party pretty hard to kill. Maybe use Legacy Champion instead of Uncanny Trickster if you can deal with the yuck, and ask your DM if Spellguard of Silverymoon lets you put personal spells into the weave (using Magic of the Land to get past the icky restrictions). Questions, anybody?

[Doctor Awkward]

Spellhoarding steel loredrake (whatever you can get at ECL 12)//wizard/incantatrix with your best Persist buffing, like wraithstrike, greater invisibility, bite of the were-tiger and so on.

You mean like the Dragon as player character progression from the Draconomicon? That's interesting. There's no table in there for steel dragon though. Which other one would you base the numbers on?

[ExLibrisMortis]

You mean like the Dragon as player character progression from the Draconomicon? That's interesting. There's no table in there for steel dragon though. Which other one would you base the numbers on?
Steel dragons are in Dragons of Faerûn. Looks like the strongest one you can play at ECL 12 is the Very Young one, with 7 RHD and +3 LA (the Young one has 10 RHD and +4 LA). A very young steel dragon has third-level casting (Loredrake makes that fifth-level, and spellhoarding makes it wizard casting), SR 18 (and minor arcane shield, which is probably +10 SR against first- and second-level spells), and alternate form.

Age cursing (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16018007&postcount=7) works extremely well in a one-shot. If you can "curse" yourself to reach Young age, you get all the benefits of being a larger, stronger dragon, and because it's a one-shot, you don't care about the lost XP.

[mabriss lethe]

Make a monster. Put lycanthrope on one side of the gestalt. Dire wolf is a good combination of large stat boosts with few HD. That would give you 3 more levels of templates or classes on that side to fill in. Say, dark and phrenic. On the other side, put whatever you like.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Make a monster. Put lycanthrope on one side of the gestalt. Dire wolf is a good combination of large stat boosts with few HD. That would give you 3 more levels of templates or classes on that side to fill in. Say, dark and phrenic. On the other side, put whatever you like.I'm not a fan of the lycanthrope template. Divine minion LA +1/Shapeshifting druid 1 gives you all the fluff of lycanthropy without all the icky racial HD and LA, and you can use all those extra levels to gain additional fun transformative stuff, like warshaper. Making yourself a changeling would give you even more transforming fun.

To the OP, what do you want out of this character? What kinds of playstyles do you want to indulge in? I like playing with factotum 3/totemist 2/more skillmonkeyness X // shaper 5/constructor 9/more manifesting Y, myself. Granted, the skillmonkeyness is usually swordsage for some gishyness, though taking more factotum until you reach either factotum 8 or 11 is always a good bit of optimization for moar action economy or ignoring SR/PR, so feel free to go that route. Able Learner to keep your various skills on par, regardless of levels. Changeling rogue 1 as your first level grants a LOT of skill points and a seriously crazy social ACF; taking 10 on all social skills is absolutely insane (not really). I prefer shaper/constructor to other psionic disciplines for the sheer amount of ridunkulous versatility it grants, the fact that several powers don't require augmenting to offer crazy-good benefits, as well as tools that allow you to work outside the box. Astral construct, psionic minor creation, psionic grease, time hop, psionic fabricate, wall of ectoplasm, energy wall, and more all offer stupidly good benefits. Do note that the levels in changeling rogue and factotum (along with Able Learner) segue really well into thrallherd, if you want to take that after constructor, for more minion-y fun, though I'd suggest using most of your thrallherd minions outside of combat. Your thrall(s) could do well as your mount, especially if it's something agile and durable (like a dragon). Or you could take a few levels in the ghost savage progression at and after thrallherd 1 so you can possess it as your own body. That's always nice for some good racial abilities later on.

[J-H]

Pick up a bunch of combat feats and show him how a non-initiator can get out of hand.
Shield Slam gives you a good daze on charges.
Pounce for full attack + shield slam daze.
Travel Devotion for swift-action movement and thus full attacks.
That blow that lets you use Power Attack to inflict Sickened/Nauseated status.
etc.

[ExLibrisMortis]

Pick up a bunch of combat feats and show him how a non-initiator can get out of hand.
Shield Slam gives you a good daze on charges.
Pounce for full attack + shield slam daze.
Travel Devotion for swift-action movement and thus full attacks.
That blow that lets you use Power Attack to inflict Sickened/Nauseated status.
etc.
Three Mountains Style lets you nauseate any target you hit twice in one round with a heavy mace, morningstar, or greatclub. So it stacks with all that :smallbiggrin:.