Disguise Self questions

[Dark Schneider]

Disguise Self could be an interesting low lvl spell, even at not so low lvl character. I have some thoughts about its possibilities:

- Let's imagine we want to enter the orcs camp.
- Use Disguise Self to change to a virtual (not physically) orc, it's humanoid type so fine.
- Explore the camp, then as someone could not recognize you, I'd do this way: roll stealth vs orc guards passive percetion, not for hide but por passing unnoticed, if failed, the guard could suspect and try the investigation roll to see throught your disguise.
- From here is some (funny) roleplaying. In case of success you could explore the camp and return to your allies with a "map" of the camp.

Now what about combat?
- If combat burst, you are still an orc.
- You get in your hand your virtual (illusion) weapon created by Disguise Self.
- You do like you combat against your allies, but really cast cantrips or spells with no directed visible effect, like those with saving throws that don't generate "something" moving to the target, like Frostbite, Hold Person, etc.

How would you handle this last one? Maybe each time you cast a spell, as it is perceptible (V and/or S components), allow the investigation action to foes to notice the disguise? Also, if you cast spells with a character is supposed not to be able (like an orc guard), maybe give advantage to the investigation roll, as it could be more suspect "how that orc is acting".

What do you think?

[hymer]

The first part I have no problems with. I'd let the PC use Deception over Stealth if the player would prefer that. I might have some interesting challenges along the way, though. Like wolves, who can smell something is wrong if you get close.

The second part wouldn't work very well. The orcs would be able to tell that the one 'orc' was casting spells on them (unless something else was disguising the fact; like metamagic), and that the adventurers aren't attacking him. They would probably think he was a traitor or spy from a rival clan. At any rate, they would not hesitate to attack him, unless a lot more was done to deceive them.

[Amdy_vill]

I would let this fly with some slight of hand Vs perception checks with the extra spells. I think i will make a bad guy around this idea

[Dark Schneider]

The second part wouldn't work very well. The orcs would be able to tell that the one 'orc' was casting spells on them (unless something else was disguising the fact; like metamagic), and that the adventurers aren't attacking him. They would probably think he was a traitor or spy from a rival clan. At any rate, they would not hesitate to attack him, unless a lot more was done to deceive them.
True. The "orc was casting spells on them" is more obscure, if there is no orc with knowledge about what casting spells implies (they only see that he acts rare), or there is no visible evidence that he are directing anything against anyone (because that I mentioned about casting spells with no visible effect directing against the target). But the adventurers aren't attacking him would be definitely revealing. In that case I suppose sometimes one of your allies should use his action to "attack" you, making both Performance checks.
In combat obviously seems more hard, but it's an idea. Even if it only frees you for the starting 1-2 rounds, well it was useful. But not probably to use directly for combat purposes.

[Guy Lombard-O]

In combat obviously seems more hard, but it's an idea. Even if it only frees you for the starting 1-2 rounds, well it was useful. But not probably to use directly for combat purposes.

I used it in combat once, in a situation with lots of obstacles and enemy minions running around (aboard the enemy's large sailing ship). My character was down to his last few HP, and was running Animate Objects to slay the crew and disable the ship. The BBG wizard was trying to take us out, so I scurried around a sail out of view and Disguised Self to look like a crewman I'd already downed. When the BBG flew back into view, I Performance-d like a sailor doing sail-y stuff and avoided being blasted for a couple more rounds until my party could take the BBG out.

The fact it's a first level spell with a duration and no concentration makes it a useful spell even at higher levels of play, I think. Particularly if you can act/perform/persuade well.