So now we know the Creed of Stone were trying to jump the queue

[Mad Humanist]

From what Thor has told us about ascended gods, we know it is theosophically natural for effectively "nontheistic" religions to generate entities which can become gods in their own right. In all but one case this has required the sponsorship of one of the three pantheons - and hence adoption into that pantheon.

Hence the Creed of Stone was one way of mortals starting the process off. Given enough time (many generations) and better luck they could have probably got an actual demi-god out of their work.

However Gontor was making two mistakes. Firstly he probably did not understand how apotheosis works. I suspect the gods don't spread this knowledge around. Presumably they believe the less mortals know about how gods work the less likely they are to find out about the Snarl. (Note Minrah's questioning attitude reaching the boundaries of her teacher's patience.)

Secondly given what we know now, Gontor thinking he could negotiate privileges for a nontheistic religion was a nonstarter. First they needed to believe their god into existence. But that takes us back to the first point.

[Morquard]

How do you go from what Thor said to "non-theistic religions are just waiting to make a god"? Which btw is the exact oposite of what non-theistic means...

[Keltest]

Not exactly. They weren't worshiping a being, but a concept. And they already got divine power from it.

[Rrmcklin]

Yeah, you're making some leaps there.

[mjasghar]

The Giant has said the elemental clerics get their power from various elemental lords - not a specific one just whichever boss elemental is free

[Anymage]

I don't think the Creed knew what happened in the godsmoot chambers at all, much less the overarching nature of how divinity works. The simplest explanation is that they thought it was a purely political gathering and wanted a seat at that table.

Non-theistic clerics make little sense when we know that the gods are universal constants that have outlived countless worlds. But it's a 3.5 D&D comic, so suspension of disbelief is expected in a few places.

[Keltest]

I don't think the Creed knew what happened in the godsmoot chambers at all, much less the overarching nature of how divinity works. The simplest explanation is that they thought it was a purely political gathering and wanted a seat at that table.

Non-theistic clerics make little sense when we know that the gods are universal constants that have outlived countless worlds. But it's a 3.5 D&D comic, so suspension of disbelief is expected in a few places.

My take at least was that the Creed are indeed kind of ignorant as to the actual nature of divinity and worship, as well as what happens at the Godsmoot.

[Fyraltari]

Non-theistic clerics make little sense when we know that the gods are universal constants that have outlived countless worlds.

Why? If anything the fact that the gods interfere in the affairs of mortals makes me think non-theistic religions would be more popular in OOTS world than in ours (where they definitely are a thing), since a good deal of people would be disillusioned with the gods and their priorities/capabilities and still in need of spiritual fullfillment.

[Peelee]

Which btw is the exact oposite of what non-theistic means...

Not often that the first comment pretty much nails it.

I highly doubt that a bunch of clerics sit around thinking, "Now that we've chosen to be non-theistic, how can we be theistic?"

[Kish]

Non-theistic clerics make little sense when we know that the gods are universal constants that have outlived countless worlds.
As Fyraltari pointed out, this hinges on an unstated assumption (I'm guessing something like "the only conceivable reason not to worship a god is not believing the god exists"). Nowhere in "the gods are universal constants that have outlived countless worlds" is a reason to worship them, any more than it would make sense to worship the Snarl.

[Peelee]

As Fyraltari pointed out, this hinges on an unstated assumption (I'm guessing something like "the only conceivable reason not to worship a god is not believing the god exists"). Nowhere in "the gods are universal constants that have outlived countless worlds" is a reason to worship them, any more than it would make sense to worship the Snarl.

To add to this, it would appear that the gods themselves actively think that lack of piety isn't an issue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html). And if not the gods, then the universe itself. Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

[Mad Humanist]

To add to this, it would appear that the gods themselves actively think that lack of piety isn't an issue (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0490.html). And if not the gods, then the universe itself. Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

Lack of piety may not be an issue per se. But I would have thought that if there was no piety at all there would be no worship and we know where that goes as far as the divine diet goes.

[Peelee]

Lack of piety may not be an issue per se. But I would have thought that if there was no piety at all there would be no worship and we know where that goes as far as the divine diet goes.

That's like saying if everyone worshipped Tiger, the other gods would waste away. Completely true, but wholly irrelevant since that's nowhere near what the reality is.

[Mad Humanist]

That's like saying if everyone worshipped Tiger, the other gods would waste away. Completely true, but wholly irrelevant since that's nowhere near what the reality is.

I think what you are pointing out is that the gods don't mind if an individual is not pious. That's true. I think they would have an issue if all society was like that. They'd want to do something to fix it in this world and even more so in the next.

I think I'll have a go at restating my original point. The Creed were very ignorant about how the gods work. We don't know exactly how ignorant but it could have been to the extent that their whole exercise was misguided.

I get the point that some people may not like any of the existing gods. The Creed fulfilled that niche and produced functional clerics.

But this is a reality where you can make up your own gods - and given enough belief, they can actually become real. In that case what the Creed were doing was inferior to them believing a new god into existence - one more suited to their temperament.

But they tried to ignore all that and just try to negotiate some sort of political deal. Now we know what was at stake, we can see just how out of their league they were.

[martianmister]

The Creed were very ignorant about how the gods work.

In which way?


But this is a reality where you can make up your own gods - and given enough belief, they can actually become real. In that case what the Creed were doing was inferior to them believing a new god into existence - one more suited to their temperament.

Except creating a new god is extremely hard, and it still makes them a servant of a god.

[Kish]

I...think the Creed of Stone worshiped the concept of stone because they wanted to worship the concept of stone. Not because they were trying to create a god, or because they really wanted to worship a god but didn't like any of the available gods.

[Anymage]

As Fyraltari pointed out, this hinges on an unstated assumption (I'm guessing something like "the only conceivable reason not to worship a god is not believing the god exists"). Nowhere in "the gods are universal constants that have outlived countless worlds" is a reason to worship them, any more than it would make sense to worship the Snarl.

It isn't about worship so much as it's about granting spells. If powerful elementals can grant spells, that opens up several cans of worms.

I'm not ragging on Rich or the story, because godless clerics are just one of many 3.5isms that got written in for being 3.5isms. Just saying that, like many other 3.5isms, it gets into weird fridge logic territory if you spend too much time thinking about it.

[Kish]

It isn't about worship so much as it's about granting spells. If powerful elementals can grant spells, that opens up several cans of worms.
Okay, and?

"Opens up several cans of worms" is not "makes little sense." Whatever you mean by that, why are you so certain that the "cans of worms" you see are not intended?

[Throknor]

I...think the Creed of Stone worshiped the concept of stone because they wanted to worship the concept of stone. Not because they were trying to create a god, or because they really wanted to worship a god but didn't like any of the available gods.

On top of this they were the clerics called upon to build and remove a meeting place for head clerics that their head cleric wasn't invited to. They probably had no idea what was actually discussed at the meeting and just assumed it had to do with general clerical matters. While good sports in general they resented it on some level. They'd observed at other meetings that Hel also had no representation. On seeing she finally had one Gontor took it on himself to try to persuade Durkon to put in a good word for his group.

[Fyraltari]

It isn't about worship so much as it's about granting spells. If powerful elementals can grant spells, that opens up several cans of worms.

Can you elaborate on this, please? Which cans would be opened?

[Peelee]

Can you elaborate on this, please? Which cans would be opened?

A worm can, obviously. I'm also interested in the real answer, though.

[Fyraltari]

A worm can, obviously. I'm also interested in the real answer, though.

But is that a can used by worms, or a can full of worms? And why would a worm use a can, or enyone can worms, for that matter?

[Kish]

Pretty sure people make cans of worms to use as bait while fishing.

Possibly of interest to Horace. Not to Eugene.

[Anymage]

Can you elaborate on this, please? Which cans would be opened?

If elemental lords can grant spells, they have to be at least somewhat similar to gods. That'd probably grant them at least enough of a stake to speak up in places like the godsmoot. And in general to be players on more than the nonexistent scale they are now.

Like I said before, though, the basic problem goes back to 3e D&D. You could get cleric powers by following the tenets of a god, or you could just believe in doing whatever you wanted to do really hard. I get why WotC did what they did. I don't mind what they did from a perspective of letting players play whatever they wanted to. But once the idea was out there, there was no good way to implement it without having to consciously overlook certain stray bits.

[Fyraltari]

If elemental lords can grant spells, they have to be at least somewhat similar to gods. That'd probably grant them at least enough of a stake to speak up in places like the godsmoot. And in general to be players on more than the nonexistent scale they are now.

Turns out, this was Gontor's point:

As I see it, Gontor would have thought that he could convey a consensus opinion from the lesser elemental beings that granted him spells. Sort of like a moot within a moot. He would argue that as quasi-divine beings, they deserve a say in what is decided. However, it is also possible that he has never actually been allowed to witness the Godsmoot and therefore his understanding of it is less than perfect.

[Kish]

If elemental lords can grant spells, they have to be at least somewhat similar to gods. That'd probably grant them at least enough of a stake to speak up in places like the godsmoot. And in general to be players on more than the nonexistent scale they are now.
Evidently it does neither. (Demigods only get to vote if the vote is tied, and elemental lords should automatically be able to speak up? You might have a case that they should theoretically be consulted if the full gods were tied and then the demigods were also tied, none that it's logically insupportable that they're not consulted at the level of gods.)

There's no problem there--not in D&D and not in OotS--only assumptions you're making not being upheld by the text.

[Peelee]

Pretty sure people make cans of worms to use as bait while fishing.

Possibly of interest to Horace. Not to Eugene.

Small tupperware-like containers of dirt, really. Though if it's not chock full of worms, shopkeeps gettin an earful.

I like fishing.

[Throknor]

Turns out, this was Gontor's point:

I'd forgotten that, but it's similar to what I was thinking: He knows there's a meeting of high clerics but doesn't really know what goes on there. I'm guessing the bodyguards/escorts have some kind of NDA (possibly divinely enforced) and the clerics obviously aren't going to discuss what occurs.

So in regards to the OP, his desire to sit at the table may have nothing to do with apotheosis. Just a general 'You ask us to build this place, you should let us attend' feeling.

Though now I'm wondering if the other meeting places were also built and destroyed or if that's just something the Northern Gods have to deal with because they fight over territory more. They also appear to be the last to vote; there aren't representatives from them at either other meeting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html). The Southern's table could be anywhere, but the Western's setting looks like it is pretty elaborate. Though I could be reading a lot into what is 'dramatically, the Northern vote will be shown to be the tie-breaker'.

[Dion]

I get the point that some people may not like any of the existing gods. The Creed fulfilled that niche and produced functional clerics.

But this is a reality where you can make up your own gods - and given enough belief, they can actually become real. In that case what the Creed were doing was inferior to them believing a new god into existence - one more suited to their temperament.

I don’t think the Creed of Stone is looking for a god more suited to their temperament.

We’ve already seen it’s remarkably simple to create a god. Elan has even created two of them. I’d imagine if the Creed wanted a god they would have one.

[ken]

I don’t think the Creed of Stone is looking for a god more suited to their temperament.

We’ve already seen it’s remarkably simple to create a god. Elan has even created two of them. I’d imagine if the Creed wanted a god they would have one.

Maybe you have to BE remarkably simple to create a god... and Elan is one of the few who qualifies...

[Fyraltari]

I'd forgotten that, but it's similar to what I was thinking: He knows there's a meeting of high clerics but doesn't really know what goes on there. I'm guessing the bodyguards/escorts have some kind of NDA (possibly divinely enforced) and the clerics obviously aren't going to discuss what occurs.
Correct (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0993.html). Although I see no reason to assume the ushers know less about the going-ons of the Moot than the bodyguards.


So in regards to the OP, his desire to sit at the table may have nothing to do with apotheosis. Just a general 'You ask us to build this place, you should let us attend' feeling.
There's probably an element of that yes.


Though now I'm wondering if the other meeting places were also built and destroyed or if that's just something the Northern Gods have to deal with because they fight over territory more. They also appear to be the last to vote; there aren't representatives from them at either other meeting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0999.html). The Southern's table could be anywhere, but the Western's setting looks like it is pretty elaborate. Though I could be reading a lot into what is 'dramatically, the Northern vote will be shown to be the tie-breaker'.
Of course drama is the defining factor, but seeing as the last to vote has both the least and most power (the later you vote the more likely it is that a majority has already formed but there's a chance you would cast a deciding vote) my own personnal headcannon is that the voting order is rotating between pantheons (and probably gods as well).


We’ve already seen it’s remarkably simple to create a god. Elan has even created two of them. I’d imagine if the Creed wanted a god they would have one.

Would people follow my example if I started referring to Banjo as a "godling" ? Because while he is somewhat divine he really shouldn't be considered equal to Thor and the like.

[Mordar]

If elemental lords can grant spells, they have to be at least somewhat similar to gods. That'd probably grant them at least enough of a stake to speak up in places like the godsmoot. And in general to be players on more than the nonexistent scale they are now.


Evidently it does neither. (Demigods only get to vote if the vote is tied, and elemental lords should automatically be able to speak up? You might have a case that they should theoretically be consulted if the full gods were tied and then the demigods were also tied, none that it's logically insupportable that they're not consulted at the level of gods.)

There's no problem there--not in D&D and not in OotS--only assumptions you're making not being upheld by the text.

I don't think that's quite right, but the outcome is the same.

I believe the demigods of a given pantheon only get to vote if the gods of their pantheon is tied...demigods only break a tie within a body that casts a single vote. The only way all of the demigods would "get" to vote is if each pantheon's gods were to be tied. Since there are only 3 pantheons now, we'd only get a tie on a "total" vote with an abstention or deadlock. In that case I'd expect the result to be "No Action" rather than consulting outside entities, with a likely call for a revote.

As to the elemental lords having power and earning a stake...well, I would expect since they aren't on the "creation committee" they don't get a voice regardless of their juice.

That's why I think/wonder about the potential for TDO to impact things down the line is very limited. If he doesn't have enough sustenance to survive as a divinity until the next world building the purple quiddity doesn't matter...as such, its a now or never deal (besides the metaknowledge of the comic being about this iteration only) as there isn't time for TDO to gather the kind of support/worship/souls to provide for the between-worlds time.

- M

[Throknor]

Correct (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0993.html). Although I see no reason to assume the ushers know less about the going-ons of the Moot than the bodyguards.
The bodyguards overlook the proceeding but the ushers are apparently not allowed in during the vote. At least, none were there in the only one we've seen. It's unclear if they wouuld have been able to pass or hear through the barrier (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1005.html); they definitely should have been stationed outside of it close enough to be called - which does imply they wouldn't be standing right there. "Baldar's man" wouldn't be expected to call for someone immediately outside the door.

So the ushers being unaware of what happens is an assumption, but it fits with what we've directly seen and with Gontor not knowing the exact reason behind/actions inside a moot.

Of course, the barrier keeping anyone out is countered by all the vampires marching in, so it may just be tradition/rules that the ushers don't go in.

[Rrmcklin]

Edit: Actually, just forget that.

[Dion]

We haven't established that at all. Despite what some people want, Banjo and Giggles aren't real gods that are going to save the world.

Why do you believe they have to save the world before they can be real gods?


Would people follow my example if I started referring to Banjo as a "godling" ? Because while he is somewhat divine he really shouldn't be considered equal to Thor and the like.

Sure. If the creed wanted to worship a god, then it’s remarkably easy to create a godling.

But they didn’t do that, and there seems to be no indication in the text that they have any desire to worship a god or godling.

Anyhow, I agree that the creed of stone misunderstands the point of the godsmoot.

The creed wanted a cleric to be representative at the godsmoot, but as point of fact no cleric of any god is representing anything at the godsmoot. They clerics aren’t being consulted on their opinion. They’re just convenient telephones that allow the gods to call each other without creating a new snarl.

If the creed had a cleric in the room, it wouldn’t give the creed a voice in matters of celestial importance. It would just give Thor a chance to talk to rocks.

[Peelee]

Why do you believe they have to save the world before they can be real gods?

They don't, but they're real gods in the same sense that Peeleelandia is a real country. I can say it is all I want to, but they're not laying out a seat for me at the UN.

[Fyraltari]

The bodyguards overlook the proceeding but the ushers are apparently not allowed in during the vote. At least, none were there in the only one we've seen. It's unclear if they wouuld have been able to pass or hear through the barrier (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1005.html); they definitely should have been stationed outside of it close enough to be called - which does imply they wouldn't be standing right there. "Baldar's man" wouldn't be expected to call for someone immediately outside the door.

So the ushers being unaware of what happens is an assumption, but it fits with what we've directly seen and with Gontor not knowing the exact reason behind/actions inside a moot.

Of course, the barrier keeping anyone out is countered by all the vampires marching in, so it may just be tradition/rules that the ushers don't go in.

The barrier doesn't seem to stop anyone (it did not stop Roy either), I think it's just a handy visualisation of "take one more step and your god's vote is officially null". Baldur's priest was just supposed to walk to it and tell the Creeders to fetch the demigods' high priests, the other priests comment on that it's odd that it takes him so long, implying that had the ushers been still alive he would not have had to shout. (Which makes sense, it was really lucky for Hel that the other priests heard him at all).

I would also say that since Dvalin's vote comes up often enough for Mani's high priest to bring his own snacks, I would assume the ushers have had to provide food, beds and buckets to the high priests for the usual two days before.

[Jasdoif]

The barrier doesn't seem to stop anyone (it did not stop Roy either)It could stop a high priest.

The barrier is a normal part of the Godsmoot. It's the answer to the question that was voiced repeatedly around these parts, "Why doesn't one of the high priests just step out of the room and nullify the vote?" but I can't fit everything in every comic, so we haven't seen it until now.That said...since it doesn't stop the demigods' high priests from entering (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1012.html), and a couple of them leaving could nullify the vote (by obviating the tiebreaker); I'm fairly sure it's a one-way barrier.

[Fyraltari]

Why would a high priest try to nullify the vote of their own master? All of those whose deity voted no seemed to accept it.

[Keltest]

Why would a high priest try to nullify the vote of their own master? All of those whose deity voted no seemed to accept it.

Hel seemed to imply that Heimdal wanted to change his vote.

[Fyraltari]

Hel seemed to imply that Heimdal wanted to change his vote.

Yes but Heimdall said no such thing.

[Peelee]

Why would a high priest try to nullify the vote of their own master? All of those whose deity voted no seemed to accept it.

1.) Deity: "Priest, there are rules against changing my vote, but not against you leaving the room. Do it."

B.) High Priest: "I have devoted my life to my god, but the world itself must take precedence. I will gladly sacrifice my position to save it."

iii.) The Giant: "There, now nobody can ask 'why couldn't one of the priests leave the room and nullify their own vote? Plot hole, PLOT HOLE!' Because barrier. Done."

I'm partial to the third one myself.

[Fyraltari]

1.) Deity: "Priest, there are rules against changing my vote, but not against you leaving the room. Do it."

B.) High Priest: "I have devoted my life to my god, but the world itself must take precedence. I will gladly sacrifice my position to save it."

iii.) The Giant: "There, now nobody can ask 'why couldn't one of the priests leave the room and nullify their own vote? Plot hole, PLOT HOLE!' Because barrier. Done."

I'm partial to the third one myself.
In any case the Creeders aren't anybody's high priest and that would be a requirement for the barrier to block you.

[Peelee]

In any case the Creeders aren't anybody's high priest and that would be a requirement for the barrier to block you.

Agreed. High priests can't pass it, others can, the vamped Creedmembers flood on in later, everything works out. Easy peasy.

[Reboot]

Priests could still suicide (or get their bodyguards to kill them, possibly ritually. Or 'suicide by cleric' through deliberately attacking the other side - or even their "own" side, to knock out another vote or two.)

If they're doing it at their god's order, then (dwarves notwithstanding, depending on how it counts) it would be a fast track to their god's side anyway.

[Bad Wolf]

Priests could still suicide (or get their bodyguards to kill them, possibly ritually. Or 'suicide by cleric' through deliberately attacking the other side - or even their "own" side, to knock out another vote or two.)

If they're doing it at their god's order, then (dwarves notwithstanding, depending on how it counts) it would be a fast track to their god's side anyway.

Rich specifically said he wasn't ever going to make an OOTS comic where suicide is the solution.

[hroþila]

External explanation aside, that could easily be covered by the No Backsies rule, if the gods can tell whether the priest/bodyguard is acting on their own or following orders.

[georgie_leech]

External explanation aside, that could easily be covered by the No Backsies rule, if the gods can tell whether the priest/bodyguard is acting on their own or following orders.

Also, the High Priest of various deities seem like the sort of group that has an extremely low incidence of subverting their pantheon's structure. Even OOTS Loki doesn't go around trying to destabilize the very idea of a Northern Pantheon.

[Riftwolf]

Priests could still suicide.

Wondered how long that'd take to resurface.

My reading of the barrier was it stopped High Priests leaving, but not anyone else. The Creed enter and leave without repercussion, as does Roy. Its probably not a statted spell, but more the Gods making a highly specific opt-in wall of force because, yknow, Gods.

Instead of suggesting Priests suicide to resolve plot, how about suggesting Priests open windows to let sunlight in to kill HP of Hel, which starts a peevish passive-aggressive standoff with Yes votes closing windows while glaring? It's as equally not going to happen, it equally wouldn't make sense with established godsmoot rules, and it'd equally undercut the story being about Durkon and the Order if it *did* somehow work. But we wouldn't be talking about suicide as an answer.

[D.One]

Wondered how long that'd take to resurface.

My reading of the barrier was it stopped High Priests leaving, but not anyone else. The Creed enter and leave without repercussion, as does Roy. Its probably not a statted spell, but more the Gods making a highly specific opt-in wall of force because, yknow, Gods.

Instead of suggesting Priests suicide to resolve plot, how about suggesting Priests open windows to let sunlight in to kill HP of Hel, which starts a peevish passive-aggressive standoff with Yes votes closing windows while glaring? It's as equally not going to happen, it equally wouldn't make sense with established godsmoot rules, and it'd equally undercut the story being about Durkon and the Order if it *did* somehow work. But we wouldn't be talking about suicide as an answer.

That. Just that. I believe The Giant was pretty much adamant about not writing suicide as a solution.

[Anymage]

The most important rule that gods have amongst themselves is to limit open strife, since the consequences are severely nasty. Even going too far within one pantheon, where the result is a one-color snarl that's probably much easier to deal with, still raises questions of how far the offending god would push in an inter-pantheon dispute.

And while this world is interesting for a couple of reasons even beyond what it means to the inhabitants, it's still just one world. Given what we know, one world isn't worth the blowback from thumbing one's nose at one's peers that hard. And that's even before we get to the Giant's stance that suicide should not be shown as a desirable solution to a problem.

[Jasdoif]

Instead of suggesting Priests suicide to resolve plot, how about suggesting Priests open windows to let sunlight in to kill HP of Hel, which starts a peevish passive-aggressive standoff with Yes votes closing windows while glaring? It's as equally not going to happen, it equally wouldn't make sense with established godsmoot rules, and it'd equally undercut the story being about Durkon and the Order if it *did* somehow work. But we wouldn't be talking about suicide as an answer.It'd also be funnier to portray in a comic.

[Mad Humanist]

So from what I understand everyone is agreed that apart from High Priests everyone can physically come and go across the yellow barrier. And we all know know epistemology is determined by majority rule, right. Heck in the OOTSiverse, even theology is ultimately determined by majority rule. I bet even Odin didn't see that one coming.

Still I have this little tiny wriggly thing that is chewing its way from the back of my mind in the general direction of that consensus. And that is what does the consensus thinking about panel 8 in 1025 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html). Specifically the bit where Wrecan says: "I can't come with you." Sure he has a responsibility to Veldrina but is that all? Look how in panel 12 Roy and Wrecan are separated by the yellow barrier.

Also note Roy was only able to cross the barrier once he ceased to be Durkon's bodyguard. Durkon was only able to teleport out of the Godsmoot once he ceased to be High Priest.

In short I may be a heretic but I think the restrictions apply to both the High Priests and bodyguards.

[Keltest]

So from what I understand everyone is agreed that apart from High Priests everyone can physically come and go across the yellow barrier. And we all know know epistemology is determined by majority rule, right. Heck in the OOTSiverse, even theology is ultimately determined by majority rule. I bet even Odin didn't see that one coming.

Still I have this little tiny wriggly thing that is chewing its way from the back of my mind in the general direction of that consensus. And that is what does the consensus thinking about panel 8 in 1025 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html). Specifically the bit where Wrecan says: "I can't come with you." Sure he has a responsibility to Veldrina but is that all? Look how in panel 12 Roy and Wrecan are separated by the yellow barrier.

Also note Roy was only able to cross the barrier once he ceased to be Durkon's bodyguard. Durkon was only able to teleport out of the Godsmoot once he ceased to be High Priest.

In short I may be a heretic but I think the restrictions apply to both the High Priests and bodyguards.

Bodyguards don't even use that entrance.

[The Pilgrim]

So from what I understand everyone is agreed that apart from High Priests everyone can physically come and go across the yellow barrier. And we all know know epistemology is determined by majority rule, right. Heck in the OOTSiverse, even theology is ultimately determined by majority rule. I bet even Odin didn't see that one coming.

Still I have this little tiny wriggly thing that is chewing its way from the back of my mind in the general direction of that consensus. And that is what does the consensus thinking about panel 8 in 1025 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1025.html). Specifically the bit where Wrecan says: "I can't come with you." Sure he has a responsibility to Veldrina but is that all? Look how in panel 12 Roy and Wrecan are separated by the yellow barrier.

Also note Roy was only able to cross the barrier once he ceased to be Durkon's bodyguard. Durkon was only able to teleport out of the Godsmoot once he ceased to be High Priest.

In short I may be a heretic but I think the restrictions apply to both the High Priests and bodyguards.

I wouldn't extrapolate too much from Wrecan's goodbye scene, given that it was allegorical. With the character of Wrecan being an homage to a deceased forum member, Roy posing as the voice of The Giant, and the Barrier representing the one between the living and those who passed away.

Still, I agree that Bodyguards probably can't cross the barrer either. Just out of simplicity: if the Bodyguards being able to cross the barrier may create plot holes, it's easier for The Giant to rule that they can't, and call it a day.

[KorvinStarmast]

And why would a worm use a can, Because their bladder/bowels were full. (To go to the can is a slang term for using the lavatory ... Water Closet ... etc)

Still, I agree that Bodyguards probably can't cross the barrier either. Just out of simplicity: if the Bodyguards being able to cross the barrier may create plot holes, it's easier for The Giant to rule that they can't, and call it a day. We'll leave the needlessly complicated stuff to Nale, and accept that sometimes the author applies the KISS principle.

[Fyraltari]

Because their bladder/bowels were full. (To go to the can is a slang term for using the lavatory ... Water Closet ... etc)
Let's just say there's a reason worms never follow one another and leave it at that.

[martianmister]

I wouldn't extrapolate too much from Wrecan's goodbye scene, given that it was allegorical. With the character of Wrecan being an homage to a deceased forum member, Roy posing as the voice of The Giant, and the Barrier representing the one between the living and those who passed away.

That's a pretty Orphic description.

[Ruck]

Because their bladder/bowels were full. (To go to the can is a slang term for using the lavatory ... Water Closet ... etc) We'll leave the needlessly complicated stuff to Nale, and accept that sometimes the author applies the KISS principle.

Most of the time, I'd say; it's usually the readers/posters who go the needlessly complicated route. (I'd cite the mere existence of the "How is it that Hel has NO worshipers?" thread as a recent example.)