Friends With A Dragon

[Bartmanhomer]

Hey everybody. I just thought of a situation. I'm playing A Chaotic Good Male Human Ranger. He happen to be a dragon hunter who only hunts evil dragon. So anyway the Ranger along with a cleric, rogue and wizard plan to hunt a great Wyrm Red Dragon. Along the adventure we found a wyrmling male gold dragon who was all alone. We befriended him and the little dragon is very friendly and intelligent. He told us great stories that his family worship Bamamut. The dragon asked to be part in my team. I was worried about the dragon safety to go in a dangerous adventure but nevertheless we let the dragon join our team. We could have escort him back to his family but the dragon didn't want to come back to his family. So what would you do in a situation like this return to the little dragon family or let the dragon join the team?

[Zaq]

Well, who are the stakeholders? Did anyone ask that the dragon be returned to his family? Are you being tasked with retrieving the little guy, or is that incidental to your intended purpose? Is there anyone in your sphere of influence with a real interest in the dragon returning to his family?

From what you’ve stated, he doesn’t want to go back and no one has asked you to take him back, so why not let him do as he likes for the time being? It might be different if you were in the employ of the dragon’s family and had been charged with retrieving him safely or if he served some kind of greater plot point back home, but that seems to be absent from the scenario you presented. Why complicate things, then?

[Bartmanhomer]

Well, who are the stakeholders? Did anyone ask that the dragon be returned to his family? Are you being tasked with retrieving the little guy, or is that incidental to your intended purpose? Is there anyone in your sphere of influence with a real interest in the dragon returning to his family?

From what you’ve stated, he doesn’t want to go back and no one has asked you to take him back, so why not let him do as he likes for the time being? It might be different if you were in the employ of the dragon’s family and had been charged with retrieving him safely or if he served some kind of greater plot point back home, but that seems to be absent from the scenario you presented. Why complicate things, then?

You got a point there. The reason why the little dragon didn't want to return home is because his family (both of his parents) always aruging even though that both dragons are gold dragons. From what the little dragon said Both parent seems to have a toxic relationship. So I guess your right about that one as well.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm pretty sure he's the dragon you're hunting in disguise. All it would take would be a high CL, a shrink collar, and an Extended alter self.

How's your Sense Motive doing these days?

[Bartmanhomer]

I'm pretty sure he's the dragon you're hunting in disguise. All it would take would be a high CL, a shrink collar, and an Extended alter self.

How's your Sense Motive doing these days?

From what my Sense Motive is telling me the little dragon is telling the truth.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

From what my Sense Motive is telling me the little dragon is telling the truth.Lies and chicanery!

[Bartmanhomer]

Lies and chicanery!

If that dragon was lying and have some ulterior motives I would definitely killed that little wyrmling in a heartbeat. :wink:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If that dragon was lying and have some ulterior motives I would definitely killed that little wyrmling in a heartbeat. :wink:Just don't talk about your plans for dealing with the red around him. At least, not your real plans. But just in case the little one is on the up-and-up, make sure both sets of plans (and the conflict betwixt them) don't hurt Young Mr. Gold. And get heavy fire resistance, save boosters, flight, a way to escape grapples (like anklets of translocation), and a ring of feather fall ASAP. Preferably when the young'un ain't lookin'.

[Bartmanhomer]

Just don't talk about your plans for dealing with the red around him. At least, not your real plans. But just in case the little one is on the up-and-up, make sure both sets of plans (and the conflict betwixt them) don't hurt Young Mr. Gold. And get heavy fire resistance, save boosters, flight, a way to escape grapples (like anklets of translocation), and a ring of feather fall ASAP. Preferably when the young'un ain't lookin'.

Sure thing.

[CIDE]

I would've assumed the same thing about this being the red dragon (or a servant of the red dragon) that you're currently hunting. What kind of roll did you make with the sense motive checks? How certain are you that this is the real deal? Is there a way to "accidentally" drop a dispel on the party or an area the gold dragon currently is?

[Bartmanhomer]

I would've assumed the same thing about this being the red dragon (or a servant of the red dragon) that you're currently hunting. What kind of roll did you make with the sense motive checks? How certain are you that this is the real deal? Is there a way to "accidentally" drop a dispel on the party or an area the gold dragon currently is?

It was a 20 and it was a success for the Sense Motive.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Coordinate with the party's casters to drop some AoE effects on the party and Mr Gold that only affect Evil or Good creatures. See how they affect him. I'd recommend divination effects, but those can be hacked or blocked.

Can't be too careful, after all.

[Elricaltovilla]

Everyone here seems convinced that the baby gold is just the evil dragon in disguise, but let's assume that isn't the case, especially since in character you have no reason to suspect the gold dragon (given that the result of your sense motive roll was "he's telling the truth").

Basically, you don't have any real obligation to take the gold dragon back to his parents, though given the danger you are about to head into, he is putting himself at great risk by joining you. Depending on your level (I assume high, since you're hunting a Great Wyrm Red Dragon) you should look at finding a way to keep your little gold friend safe from harm for the upcoming fight.

As a Ranger, you don't really have many options for that. But the cleric might. Sending him to the ethereal plane (or a private demiplane) would likely be the safest option. Otherwise, you could get creative with a bag of holding and a bottle of air.

The more information you can tell us about your party's resources, the better the advice will be. But remember, if this baby gold does die, his parents will be pissed. Probably at you.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

The party wizard should take this chance to nab a draconic familiar via the Dragon Familiar feat.

Alternatively, is there a feat for a ranger that would allow your character to grab a great wyrm red wyrmling gold dragon as an animal a draconic companion?

[edit]

Everyone here seems convinced that the baby gold is just the evil dragon in disguise, but let's assume that isn't the case, especially since in character you have no reason to suspect the gold dragon (given that the result of your sense motive roll was "he's telling the truth").And yet the ranger is a not epic (???) character making skill checks against a (potentially) 40th level dragon.

BE PARANOID.

[Elricaltovilla]

The party wizard should take this chance to nab a draconic familiar via the Dragon Familiar feat.

Alternatively, is there a feat for a ranger that would allow your character to grab a great wyrm red wyrmling gold dragon as an animal a draconic companion?

[edit]
And yet the ranger is a not epic (???) character making skill checks against a (potentially) 40th level dragon.

BE PARANOID.

If your sense motive roll tells you that the dragon (or anyone else you roll against) is telling you the truth, and your character then acts suspicious of them regardless, that's textbook metagaming.

Furthermore, if we assume that baby gold could be a disguised Great Wyrm Red Dragon, then we have to assume that anyone else the character has met could also be the red dragon in disguise. It could be disguised as any nearby stranger, a distant tree, that rock over there, one of the party member... Hey Bartmanhomer, how do we know you're not a red dragon in disguise trying to trick the rest of us?

[Bartmanhomer]

Why is everyone else think that the wyrmling gold dragon is a great Wyrm red dragon in disguise? I already explained that the wyrmling gold dragon is telling the truth. There's no strange behavior from what I can tell for it. :annoyed:

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If your sense motive roll tells you that the dragon (or anyone else you roll against) is telling you the truth, and your character then acts suspicious of them regardless, that's textbook metagaming.No, that just means that you can't see anything off about it. That doesn't mean you automatically trust everyone who rolls better than you on Bluff vs Sense Motive; you can be as distrustful as you want. At worst, that just means you're (perhaps rightfully) paranoid. At best, you live in a world where you can't always trust your senses, due to magic and high skill bonuses.

But the situation itself seems off.

Finding a baby dragon out on its own right when you're going after a very old, very powerful, very magical dragon of the same element/energy type, who is capable of shapeshifting any way it wants seems suspicious, to me.

Is it really paranoia when they really are out to get you?


Furthermore, if we assume that baby gold could be a disguised Great Wyrm Red Dragon, then we have to assume that anyone else the character has met could also be the red dragon in disguise. It could be disguised as any nearby stranger, a distant tree, that rock over there, one of the party member... Hey Bartmanhomer, how do we know you're not a red dragon in disguise trying to trick the rest of us?Yeah!


Why is everyone else think that the wyrmling gold dragon is a great Wyrm red dragon in disguise? I already explained that the wyrmling gold dragon is telling the truth. There's no strange behavior from what I can tell for it. :annoyed:Because suspicious timing is suspicious, and Transformative/Illusion/Mind Control Magic Is A Thing That Exists.

[Bartmanhomer]

Just to let everyone know that my party are at level 4. So there no way on earth that we could possibly faced an Great Wyrm Red Dragon.

Update: So we have face a team of Orcs and the gold dragon was a big help with us during. The gold dragon haven't betrayed us yet. So he's an ally to my team.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Just to let everyone know that my party are at level 4. So there no way on earth that we could possibly faced an Great Wyrm Red Dragon.

Update: So we have face a team of Orcs and the gold dragon was a big help with us during. The gold dragon haven't betrayed us yet. So he's an ally to my team.Level 4, you say? Yeah, you're screwed.

[Elricaltovilla]

No, that just means that you can't see anything off about it. That doesn't mean you automatically trust everyone who rolls better than you on Bluff vs Sense Motive; you can be as distrustful as you want. At worst, that just means you're (perhaps rightfully) paranoid. At best, you live in a world where you can't always trust your senses, due to magic and high skill bonuses.



If that's the case then there is no point in rolling at all, since you should automatically distrust anything and everything. Metagaming means using outside knowledge to influence in game decisions. If you as a player are suspicious of something that doesn't mean your character is, or should be. You are using OOC knowledge to make IC decisions. That's metagaming.

Regardless, the OP believes IC and OOC that baby gold is legit. Therefore, we should help solve that issue, not the one we're making up for whatever reasons.

Bartmanhomer, what level is your party? What resources do you have access to (both as a character and what books are allowed at your table)? What has the game been like so far in terms of playstyle? If we have more info, then we can make better suggestions for what to do with the Gold Dragon.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

If nothing else, Sense Motive allows you to catch stuff when the opposition messes up.

And honestly, if it weren't for the great wyrm red, I wouldn't have suggested it. It's just that insanely powerful target + innocent baby version of the same + suspicious timing and circumstances = suspicion.

Since the baby gold dragon worships Lord Bahamut, take him to various temples to the shining platinum dragon as you travel. Encourage him to engage in worship and piety regularly. If he's on the up-and-up, having the favor of such a powerful god will be a literal godsend. If not, the fireworks will be spectacular. The church may grant you some boons to help you protect him, as well. Protective equipment and training, if nothing else.

[Bartmanhomer]

If that's the case then there is no point in rolling at all, since you should automatically distrust anything and everything. Metagaming means using outside knowledge to influence in game decisions. If you as a player are suspicious of something that doesn't mean your character is, or should be. You are using OOC knowledge to make IC decisions. That's metagaming.

Regardless, the OP believes IC and OOC that baby gold is legit. Therefore, we should help solve that issue, not the one we're making up for whatever reasons.

Bartmanhomer, what level is your party? What resources do you have access to (both as a character and what books are allowed at your table)? What has the game been like so far in terms of playstyle? If we have more info, then we can make better suggestions for what to do with the Gold Dragon.

Player Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual, Draconomicon. I already mentioned that all my character and party are at Level 4.

[Elricaltovilla]

Player Handbook, DMG, Monster Manual, Draconomicon. I already mentioned that all my character and party are at Level 4.

You're level 4 right now? So presumably this fight with the red dragon is a long way off. Given that, there isn't much you can do to keep the dragon safe outside of active protection.

It may be a good idea to covertly contact the wyrmling's mother or father and let them know what's up. Just because you can't really do a whole lot to care for him. His home life may not be great, but gold dragons are generally good parents so they will probably take what you say to heart and reward you for your help.

Really this sounds more like one of those videogame side quests with two different rewards. One way will end up with a young gold dragon NPC party member, the other nets you some plot device reward to make the final boss fight easier.

[Bartmanhomer]

You're level 4 right now? So presumably this fight with the red dragon is a long way off. Given that, there isn't much you can do to keep the dragon safe outside of active protection.

It may be a good idea to covertly contact the wyrmling's mother or father and let them know what's up. Just because you can't really do a whole lot to care for him. His home life may not be great, but gold dragons are generally good parents so they will probably take what you say to heart and reward you for your help.

Really this sounds more like one of those videogame side quests with two different rewards. One way will end up with a young gold dragon NPC party member, the other nets you some plot device reward to make the final boss fight easier.

Ok. The wyrmling dragon did mentioned that his parents (both mother and father) do fight a lot. I guess my party and I pay a visit. Hopefully the parents are reasonable and rational about the whole ordeal.

Update: We visit the wyrmling gold dragon home and his parents were aruging like crazy. Apparently both parents accused each other for having an affair with the silver dragons couple who happen to be get friends of the gold dragon family. The Cleric managed to calm the parents down and we explained that their son want to join our team to fight the Great Wyrm Red Dragon. They didn't like the idea at first but they thought about it and reconsider letting their son to join the team.

[weckar]

Are you sure this Red dragon is evil and all the Gold dragons good? Were detect spells employed? An 'always' alignment, by MM, only means about 93% of the time, after all.

[Bartmanhomer]

Are you sure this Red dragon is evil and all the Gold dragons good? Were detect spells employed? An 'always' alignment, by MM, only means about 93% of the time, after all.

The Cleric used a detect evil spell at the dragon home and he sense nothing evil out of it.