Question about quiddities (spoilers, naturally)

[ATHATH]

Wait, if mortals are made up of the combination/union of multiple quiddities, why can't they cut through the gods "like a hot glaive through ochre jelly"? Why don't they form mini-snarls when they disagree with each other? Are all of the current mortals only made up of three quiddities (or less), since the Eastern Pantheon is gone now?

[ATHATH]

Also, while we're here: How do the apertures being plane shifted directly into the outer planes by the goblins' ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1142.html) make the Snarl any more dangerous to the gods? It clearly must be able to plane shift on its own, or else the gods could simply lead it to and trap it in some remote outer plane that isn't too important (or just make a new world on/in one of the outer planes). Would it just take less time to do so?

[factotum]

When Thor shows Durkon and Minrah his single-quiddity creations, he says they're "little better than if they were made by a wizard". So, single quiddity is still better than a mortal spellcaster can achieve, even if they're not a *lot* better. The main problem with single-quiddity creations appears to be that other Gods can easily destroy them, not that mortals can do so. This is also the reason mortals don't create Snarls--they're simply not powerful enough.

Yes, all the current mortals are made of three quiddities--how could it be otherwise, since the Eastern Pantheon hasn't existed for countless millions of worlds?

As for the Snarl, it clearly *can't* Plane Shift on its own--it appears to be entirely a creature of the Material Plane, and as far as the Gods are concerned, that's the ideal place to keep it imprisoned, because they don't live there. What you just suggested is the equivalent of saying "Why don't the Gods take this angry prisoner from its nice, safe prison and put it in one of their houses instead?".

[ArkenBrony]

on way to think of it is that mortals are made up of 3 quiddities in harmony, so they are stable and rank:3 realness. being multiple quiddities doesn't imply power, just stability. the snarl is 4 quiddities in chaos, so it's rank:4 and made of conflict between each one, creating a weapon to destroy such beings

[M.A.D]

Wait, if mortals are made up of the combination/union of multiple quiddities, why can't they cut through the gods "like a hot glaive through ochre jelly"? Why don't they form mini-snarls when they disagree with each other? Are all of the current mortals only made up of three quiddities (or less), since the Eastern Pantheon is gone now?

Well a single knife cannot cut through 11 tons of paper, no matter how sharp the knife is. The Snarl is a single entity made up of power so it can do it, but individual mortals are like tiny ants made out of slightly stronger stuffs, comparing to the gods. Same reason why they aren't creating mini-snarls.


Also, while we're here: How do the apertures being plane shifted directly into the outer planes by the goblins' ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1142.html) make the Snarl any more dangerous to the gods? It clearly must be able to plane shift on its own, or else the gods could simply lead it to and trap it in some remote outer plane that isn't too important (or just make a new world on/in one of the outer planes). Would it just take less time to do so?

If the Snarl can plane-shift on its own then it would plane-shift itself out of its prison.

And if they were gonna trap it in a prison anyway, wouldn't it be the same anywhere?

[RedSand]

Also, while we're here: How do the apertures being plane shifted directly into the outer planes by the goblins' ritual (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots1142.html) make the Snarl any more dangerous to the gods? It clearly must be able to plane shift on its own, or else the gods could simply lead it to and trap it in some remote outer plane that isn't too important (or just make a new world on/in one of the outer planes). Would it just take less time to do so?

The snarl likely doesn't know how to track the gods, since they seem to reliably hide whenever it destroys the world. Moreover, The Dark one's plan should not be treated as unimpeachable-it's a desperate gambit from a god that knows almost nothing about the force he's trying to control.

Anyway mortals don't make snarls because they don't tug at the strings of reality and they can't kill gods because gods because it would be dumb if reality worked that way and also because gods are a lot bigger and stronger than humans. The "destruction" Thor speaks of in regards to single quiddity creations likely refers literal unmaking, which I imagine would be quite different than smiting you with a spell or light tap from their massive fists.

[Rrmcklin]

Wait, if mortals are made up of the combination/union of multiple quiddities, why can't they cut through the gods "like a hot glaive through ochre jelly"? Why don't they form mini-snarls when they disagree with each other? Are all of the current mortals only made up of three quiddities (or less), since the Eastern Pantheon is gone now?

Thor made a very clear distinction between how real something is and how powerful it is. No mortal in existence comes close to being powerful enough to harm the gods; it doesn't change anything about what Thor said.

It's been made very clear that they have very intricated and complicated rules to prevent that from happening.

Obviously all mortals are only made of three colors, Thor directly said that.

[Grey Watcher]

Thor made a very clear distinction between how real something is and how powerful it is. No mortal in existence comes close to being powerful enough to harm the gods; it doesn't change anything about what Thor said.

It's been made very clear that they have very intricated and complicated rules to prevent that from happening.

Obviously all mortals are only made of three colors, Thor directly said that.

In the first Crayons of Time info dump, Shojo repeated some speculation that mortals of equivalent level would be more Snarl-resistant than the gods. The gods have 50 HD? 100? More? In a world where 17th level characters are vanishingly rare, it's a fair guess that there just haven't been any mortals powerful enough. So yeah, a Level 50 mortal is probably a bigger threat to a god than another god, but how is a mortal going to rack up enough XP to get close to that?

As for why mortal-on-mortal conflict doesn't generate Snarls, I would speculate that mortals are 3Q creatures doing things in a 3Q spacetime with 3Q energies and materials. Since they're not manipulating reality on such a fundamental level, they just can't. If some mortals figured out how to manipulate quiddity directly and then tried to do so at cross-purposes, a new Snarl could indeed form.

At least, that's my guess.

[Rrmcklin]

In the first Crayons of Time info dump, Shojo repeated some speculation that mortals of equivalent level would be more Snarl-resistant than the gods. The gods have 50 HD? 100? More? In a world where 17th level characters are vanishingly rare, it's a fair guess that there just haven't been any mortals powerful enough. So yeah, a Level 50 mortal is probably a bigger threat to a god than another god, but how is a mortal going to rack up enough XP to get close to that?

{snip}.

Okay, why are you replying that to me, when my post basically said the exact same thing?

[Grey Watcher]

Okay, why are you replying that to me, when my post basically said the exact same thing?

I meant it more in the sense of elaborating on and extrapolating from the points you made. I just expressed that part ineptly. I apologize.

[D.One]

In the first Crayons of Time info dump, Shojo repeated some speculation that mortals of equivalent level would be more Snarl-resistant than the gods. The gods have 50 HD? 100? More? In a world where 17th level characters are vanishingly rare, it's a fair guess that there just haven't been any mortals powerful enough. So yeah, a Level 50 mortal is probably a bigger threat to a god than another god, but how is a mortal going to rack up enough XP to get close to that?

That's it, I think. Mortals are not, like the gods, thought beings. The are stable, real, and doesn't relly on Belief, Worship, Dedication and Souls to exist and be fed/powered (except in their need to have their own soul, I think). That said, there's a matter of power level. Or just levels, if you talk in games-mechanics terms. Gods have much, much more levels and sheer power.



As for why mortal-on-mortal conflict doesn't generate Snarls, I would speculate that mortals are 3Q creatures doing things in a 3Q spacetime with 3Q energies and materials. Since they're not manipulating reality on such a fundamental level, they just can't. If some mortals figured out how to manipulate quiddity directly and then tried to do so at cross-purposes, a new Snarl could indeed form.

I find myself liking this terminology. 3Q creatures, 4Q sealing... Suits the kind of metascience geekery we do around here :smallbiggrin: