11th level is kinda like 1st degree black belt

[odigity]

Just a thought.

[Vorpalchicken]

Sure. After three years of karate lessons at the community center, the black belt proves I can catch and return arrows in mid flight, run across the surface of a 100 foot swimming pool, drink cyanide with no ill effects, and send four attackers flying back fifteen feet each in six seconds of fighting.

edit. Oops I overstated my ability. I only sent two sailing back fifteen feet. The other two I killed with karate chops.

[Quoxis]

Just a thought.

...care to explain the correlation?

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Sure. After three years of karate lessons at the community center, the black belt proves I can catch and return arrows in mid flight, run across the surface of a 100 foot swimming pool, drink cyanide with no ill effects, and send four attackers flying back fifteen feet each in six seconds of fighting.

edit. Oops I overstated my ability. I only sent two sailing back fifteen feet. The other two I killed with karate chops.

First, you need way more then 3 years for a black belt.
Second, he may talk about the ability to easly kill someone with one hit.

[Lalliman]

Second, he may talk about the ability to easly kill someone with one hit.
Monks and high-strength characters can do that unarmed from level 1, because a commoner has 4 HP.

I think what Odigity means is that the 11th level power spike cements you as being among the best (black belt), and that you can keep striving to become the best of the best (20th level, or whatever the highest degree of black belt is).

Of course, real life black belts are maybe level 5. No real life mortal person has the prowess of an 11th level character.

[Aaron Underhand]

A friend of mine was recently assailed by two security guards in hospital. (They were trying to discharge his wife from ER, when she was in obvious pain). Six seconds later one was on the floor with his foot on their neck and the other in a head lock, while he still calmly demanded a second opinion.

Black belt ju jitsu...

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Monks and high-strength characters can do that unarmed from level 1, because a commoner has 4 HP.

I think what Odigity means is that the 11th level power spike cements you as being among the best (black belt), and that you can keep striving to become the best of the best (20th level, or whatever the highest degree of black belt is).

Of course, real life black belts are maybe level 5. No real life mortal person has the prowess of an 11th level character.

Unless they are level 11 commoners, there atlre a lot op people that survive very high damage.


For example:
I remember reading about the medical condition of a person that fall 200+ feet and live(he broke his legs, he faild to kill himself).

Ernest Miller Hemingway have a very impressive survival history.

[Lalliman]

Unless they are level 11 commoners, there atlre a lot op people that survive very high damage.
Yes, that's why D&D's depiction of commoners is dumb, and the HP system doesn't really work with environmental damage. But I was merely saying that your explanation of Odigity's statement has no real bearing on the system as-is.

[BloodSnake'sCha]

Yes, that's why D&D's depiction of commoners is dumb, and the HP system doesn't really work with environmental damage. But I was merely saying that your explanation of Odigity's statement has no real bearing on the system as-is.

I agree, I just enjoy the peaceful discussion :)

I think that because we agree the discussion is over. Goodbye, that was a nice discussion.

[Quoxis]

Unless they are level 11 commoners, there atlre a lot op people that survive very high damage.


For example:
I remember reading about the medical condition of a person that fall 200+ feet and live(he broke his legs, he faild to kill himself).

Ernest Miller Hemingway have a very impressive survival history.

People that are very lucky, yes. I doubt this guy managed to dodge the ground by using his 4th level monk feature thanks to his orange karate belt, and he certainly didn’t just have 5000hp to spare.
A hard hit to the head in the right angle or with the right weapon is still deadly to (i dare say) every human being, and it’s available to every able-bodied human against every unsuspecting or defenseless human - a „surprised“ human, despite being a tavern brawler or shaolin monk, can be killed by a silent assailant wielding a heavy object, which implies either that surprise = crit = 100d20 damage or that everyone gets high level sneak attack without being a rogue and i could spin this further for hours, but i guess i‘ve brought my point of „D&D is a game the mechanics of which don’t translate well into reallife because reality is boring and games shouldn’t be“ across by now.

[Tanarii]

A friend of mine was recently assailed by two security guards in hospital. (They were trying to discharge his wife from ER, when she was in obvious pain). Six seconds later one was on the floor with his foot on their neck and the other in a head lock, while he still calmly demanded a second opinion.

Black belt ju jitsu...
How much time did he get?

[Knaight]

"Black belt" is an almost meaningless term that suggests basically nothing. Black belt in a particular sport is slightly less meaningless, black belt from a particular institution during a particular time period potentially contains actual information. That said, to some extent it's more like the martial arts equivalent of a college degree even in those cases than anything else, where a lot of people have them, and some of them also have decades of experience on top of that, or exceptional talent on top of that, or whatever else.

Though in this case far more than the degree there's also a lot of people who have the skills without the qualifications, whether because they're somewhat easier to pick up than academic specialties (at the very least you'll never need things like million dollar pieces of scientific equipment) or because there are all sorts of other places that provide training but don't use the belt system.

[MrFahrenheit]

There are three power spikes in 5e: levels 5, 11, and 17. At each of these levels, classes get significant attack/damage boosts or spell selections. Level 11, as far as this thread is concerned, is likely the last of these milestones most campaigns will see.

[nickl_2000]

Sure. After three years of karate lessons at the community center, the black belt proves I can catch and return arrows in mid flight, run across the surface of a 100 foot swimming pool, drink cyanide with no ill effects, and send four attackers flying back fifteen feet each in six seconds of fighting.

edit. Oops I overstated my ability. I only sent two sailing back fifteen feet. The other two I killed with karate chops.

Yes, that exactly what happened when I finished my third year of Karate lessons. Did it not for you?

[Gryndle]

"Black belt" is an almost meaningless term that suggests basically nothing. Black belt in a particular sport is slightly less meaningless, black belt from a particular institution during a particular time period potentially contains actual information. That said, to some extent it's more like the martial arts equivalent of a college degree even in those cases than anything else, where a lot of people have them, and some of them also have decades of experience on top of that, or exceptional talent on top of that, or whatever else.

Though in this case far more than the degree there's also a lot of people who have the skills without the qualifications, whether because they're somewhat easier to pick up than academic specialties (at the very least you'll never need things like million dollar pieces of scientific equipment) or because there are all sorts of other places that provide training but don't use the belt system.

pretty good summation. Some martial art systems actually even compare certain dan rankings to specific types of degrees.

To add to that, while Shodan/1st degree black belt in a quality school is an accomplishment, it doesn't mean what a lot of people think it does. Shodan just means that you have become proficient with the basics of your style. Real mastery is still a ways off. Even in a quality dojo 1st dan doesn't make you a superhuman living weapon.

then there are the McDojos out there where you can get a 1st degree black belt by purchasing a block of time and just showing up. Which is just flat out disgusting, but they are more common that good schools now.

and muddy up the topic even more, unless they are part of some greater organization, each individual dojo decides the requirements and qualifications for its ranking systems. Even among the same parent disciplines. For example, my primary discipline is a family form of Jujitsu, I have earned my nidan (2nd degree black belt) and am eligible to test for Sandan (3rd). But right now there is a push for traditional Japanese martial arts to all follow a uniform ranking system. If my hombu decides to do so, then I will actually be a 3rd degree black belt and eligible to test for my fourth.


back on topic. considering the structure of the game, and the power/skill gap between 1st level characters and commoners: I feel that a 1st degree black belt could be any character from 1st to 4th level or so. an 11th level character? that amount of skill and power doesn't exist in real life.

[GlenSmash!]

If you mean, by level 11 you should feel like you are among the most competent and expert of adventurers, then yes I agree.